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Kenneth_of_Borg
Ship Engineer
Joined: 10 Jul 2006, 01:00 Posts: 5130 Location: Space is disease and danger, wrapped in darkness and silence!
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On SharePoint the Deadalus is our F Frigate I. Here is a link if you want to look at it. As I recall it is something of a bash job. When I get home from work today I can put up the new stuff from Slim. (playing catchup at work too)
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14 Jun 2010, 19:42 |
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vjeko1701
Crazed Emissary of the Photoshop
Joined: 13 Mar 2009, 20:17 Posts: 2091 Location: Krapina, Croatia
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Well the one on sharepoint is lower quality than the Fireball's model. So Fireball we will take anything you have, specially in TOS era where we are the weakest.
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14 Jun 2010, 19:54 |
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Kenneth_of_Borg
Ship Engineer
Joined: 10 Jul 2006, 01:00 Posts: 5130 Location: Space is disease and danger, wrapped in darkness and silence!
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Slim created this alternate version of the Dominion Diplomatic background by adding on to the original layout. Corny2x, your model could be expanded to get to this layout. The camera might also have to be moved to get the same line of view.
Slim Notes-Rough Sketch-I have expanded Dominion Massive City of Dras. It is now vertically proportional and at the same time maintaining the same horizon and perspective composition. This should help make the backdrop similar to the others. I added FATA Guns (Dominion guns mentioned in one of DS9 books, that fire quantum inversion beams making this base a very formidable defensive base. However because it is a location for Diplomacy, no one has ever made an attempt) on both sides some more flags of Dominion members, You guys pick logos, if a dominion race doesn't have one, get creative. Maintain the same color scheme throughout you can make the guns a a combo of silver greys and darker browns. Ships dock along the massive endless walls. It should be easier to follow the composition and angle the perspective. I blue lined what the modeler has done so far to give him a vantage point of where he is at. Good luck Slim
Attachments:
Stretch Dominion 1069.jpg [ 731.15 KiB | Viewed 8208 times ]
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15 Jun 2010, 02:29 |
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Kenneth_of_Borg
Ship Engineer
Joined: 10 Jul 2006, 01:00 Posts: 5130 Location: Space is disease and danger, wrapped in darkness and silence!
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I had a chance to talk to Slim last week. He was trying to expand on the Federation Diplomacy background but could not set a good persecutive line in his drawing based on the Anti-Distinctlyminty model. I want to explain how I came up with the lines in my model that rather closely match to the original Tal Shiar drawing. When Slim draws he first sets vanishing points for the lines of perspective. When doing a model we never draw those lines. I got the same layout by first getting the rough proportion of the ceiling, back wall and a section of flooring. I built them in the model as seen in the view below. (Below is my Tal Shiar model seen from a distant vantage point. You see the ceiling back wall and a few other objects. This is an ortho view so it is just boxy without perspective. The Perspective view comes when you place the camera at a angle.) Then I played with the camera position and lens to get the lines of the ceiling and wall to match up with that in Slim's drawing. In that way I matched his lines of perspective. Anti-Distinctlyminty, for the Federation Diplomacy I suggest you first scale the buildings to match proportions seen in Slim's drawing. It looks like they could still be made taller. Then try to place the camera to give you the same angle of view and framing. That will match Slim's lines of perspective. Next move the model of the Deadalus up so it has the same room as Slim's gives it. Now I suggest you should add some new buildings extending off each side of what Slim gave us out to the edge of the the frame. This will fill in the blank space on each side when you put the original drawing in our 2560 by 1600 frame. The new buildings could be in low light so you do not have to give them the same level of detail as seen in the center.
Attachments:
subwindow.png [ 10.44 KiB | Viewed 8203 times ]
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15 Jun 2010, 03:14 |
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Matress_of_evil
Evil Romulan Overlord of Evil - Now 100% Faster!
Joined: 02 Dec 2004, 01:00 Posts: 7392 Location: Returned to the previous place.
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For the Dominion image, remember that Zeleni is working on the emblems, so leave the flags blank and ask him for the designs. That should save you a little work. Same goes for any other images that need emblems.
_________________"Anyone without a sense of humour is truly at the mercy of the rest of us."
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15 Jun 2010, 10:58 |
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Kenneth_of_Borg
Ship Engineer
Joined: 10 Jul 2006, 01:00 Posts: 5130 Location: Space is disease and danger, wrapped in darkness and silence!
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-Added a new figure behind the cat tree. He needs work. -Playing with the transporter appearance still. -A lot of detail work that does not all show at this res.
Attachments:
last man.png [ 617.91 KiB | Viewed 8180 times ]
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17 Jun 2010, 01:36 |
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Captain Bashir
Genetically Altered Manual Labourer
Joined: 17 Aug 2009, 01:31 Posts: 2083 Location: Passed out on the floor after math mistake discovered by Hawking
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I don't know how to say it and be convincing enough, but it is awesome.... It really is! You've created a real place. It's mesmerizing to look at. ...and look, and look. Bashir
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17 Jun 2010, 04:31 |
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vjeko1701
Crazed Emissary of the Photoshop
Joined: 13 Mar 2009, 20:17 Posts: 2091 Location: Krapina, Croatia
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I agree, wow, simply wow.
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17 Jun 2010, 13:25 |
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viceadmiralv
Cadet
Joined: 28 Mar 2009, 11:31 Posts: 86 Location: Germany
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Definitley the work of an artist! Great job.
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17 Jun 2010, 21:27 |
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Anti-Distinctlyminty
Cadet
Joined: 19 Jan 2010, 03:27 Posts: 62 Location: Kent, UK
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Kenneth_of_Borg wrote: I had a chance to talk to Slim last week. He was trying to expand on the Federation Diplomacy background but could not set a good persecutive line in his drawing based on the Anti-Distinctlyminty model.
Anti-Distinctlyminty, for the Federation Diplomacy I suggest you first scale the buildings to match proportions seen in Slim's drawing. It looks like they could still be made taller. Then try to place the camera to give you the same angle of view and framing. That will match Slim's lines of perspective. Arg. This is exactly what I was trying to avoid and I really tried to clear this up before I started modelling and was left with the distinct impression that stretching the image was perfectly fine as long as the composition wasn't changed. The reason being that I used match-moving software to figure out the correct camera position, orientation and field of view and I then build the model around that, so I can't just squash the model in one direction or another as that will just be a large amount of trial and error to get the proportions the same as in the original image. Do the buildings have to be thinner? It's a major pain in the ass that I desperately tried to avoid before I started modelling for this very reason
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17 Jun 2010, 23:34 |
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Kenneth_of_Borg
Ship Engineer
Joined: 10 Jul 2006, 01:00 Posts: 5130 Location: Space is disease and danger, wrapped in darkness and silence!
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You are doing great model work Anti-Distinctlyminty. With the concept art built long axis up and our windows long axis horizontal it was up to you to make the key choices. We are all working for free. We are working for love of Star Trek or we would not be working. You bring important skills to the game. The worst thing that could happen is what you would not be on the team. Do what you have to.
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18 Jun 2010, 01:04 |
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Anti-Distinctlyminty
Cadet
Joined: 19 Jan 2010, 03:27 Posts: 62 Location: Kent, UK
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I'll have a go at making the buildings thinner, but I don't think it'll work, or at least, the geometric composition of the image will change. I'll see what happens and if it doesn't look terrible I'll post it here
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18 Jun 2010, 09:03 |
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Anti-Distinctlyminty
Cadet
Joined: 19 Jan 2010, 03:27 Posts: 62 Location: Kent, UK
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I've tried to get more of the perspective in Slim's original image by changing the position and field of view of the camera. Attachment:
fed_diploclose.jpg [ 91.6 KiB | Viewed 8133 times ]
As you can see by comparing this image to the previous one, there isn't really a major difference, but if people have a preference, let me know.
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18 Jun 2010, 10:30 |
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vjeko1701
Crazed Emissary of the Photoshop
Joined: 13 Mar 2009, 20:17 Posts: 2091 Location: Krapina, Croatia
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WOW, this is slowly turning into a piece of art, keep it up...
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18 Jun 2010, 14:00 |
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Kenneth_of_Borg
Ship Engineer
Joined: 10 Jul 2006, 01:00 Posts: 5130 Location: Space is disease and danger, wrapped in darkness and silence!
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Yes and the perspective looks good. I wonder if putting the ship further in the background behind and above the roofline would make it less cramped. I am not sure.
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18 Jun 2010, 14:02 |
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Anti-Distinctlyminty
Cadet
Joined: 19 Jan 2010, 03:27 Posts: 62 Location: Kent, UK
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Kenneth_of_Borg wrote: Yes and the perspective looks good. I wonder if putting the ship further in the background behind and above the roofline would make it less cramped. I am not sure. I thought the 'cramped' / built-up look was part of Slim's vision for this? I always figured the Daedalus was docked, but I may be wrong. What do you say?
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18 Jun 2010, 14:19 |
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Kenneth_of_Borg
Ship Engineer
Joined: 10 Jul 2006, 01:00 Posts: 5130 Location: Space is disease and danger, wrapped in darkness and silence!
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Sure, it well could be. It takes on a little different feel in the tall image. We can not do tall image in our windows so you expect it to look different.
Attachments:
Fed Diplo small.png [ 498.47 KiB | Viewed 8121 times ]
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18 Jun 2010, 14:53 |
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Anti-Distinctlyminty
Cadet
Joined: 19 Jan 2010, 03:27 Posts: 62 Location: Kent, UK
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You're right Kenneth. I'll see if I can't get the ship to be in more of a flyby style. Here's a thing though, can the Daedalus actually enter the atmosphere? :|
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18 Jun 2010, 14:59 |
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Matress_of_evil
Evil Romulan Overlord of Evil - Now 100% Faster!
Joined: 02 Dec 2004, 01:00 Posts: 7392 Location: Returned to the previous place.
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Maybe it's being launched? The San Francisco Fleetyards could be in the background, behind the cityscape.
_________________"Anyone without a sense of humour is truly at the mercy of the rest of us."
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18 Jun 2010, 15:46 |
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Anti-Distinctlyminty
Cadet
Joined: 19 Jan 2010, 03:27 Posts: 62 Location: Kent, UK
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Is that part of the Abramsverse whereby ships are built on the ground?
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18 Jun 2010, 15:58 |
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Matress_of_evil
Evil Romulan Overlord of Evil - Now 100% Faster!
Joined: 02 Dec 2004, 01:00 Posts: 7392 Location: Returned to the previous place.
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The San Francisco Fleetyards are TOS canon. The big lady was built there before the Abramsverse existed. We've never seen them though to say if they were ground or space based. Since they are named after an Earth city though it makes sense they are ground based. The space cities were always new something, like New Berlin, and it would be odd naming the yards after a city that was 100 miles below the facility.
_________________"Anyone without a sense of humour is truly at the mercy of the rest of us."
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18 Jun 2010, 16:10 |
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AlexMcpherson
Ensign
Joined: 10 Apr 2010, 16:28 Posts: 138
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Yes, Matress. I mean, I don't think Utopia Planitia Fleetyards in orbit of mars, geostationary over Utopia- wait. oh. That is named after a place that is 100 miles below it. Maybe not a city, but still.
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18 Jun 2010, 17:12 |
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Kenneth_of_Borg
Ship Engineer
Joined: 10 Jul 2006, 01:00 Posts: 5130 Location: Space is disease and danger, wrapped in darkness and silence!
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It will look nice whatever you do. You are the boss of this image. I suggest the center building standout in a bright white on the exterior walls. Just an idea. -some Federation blue accent color as well? (Slim's idea - see his color comp)
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18 Jun 2010, 18:29 |
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Kenneth_of_Borg
Ship Engineer
Joined: 10 Jul 2006, 01:00 Posts: 5130 Location: Space is disease and danger, wrapped in darkness and silence!
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I could keep going on this background. There is a lot more I want to do. Rather than drag it out though I will call this the beta version for us in the game at this time. This is a scaled down version of it so if you want to copy it in high res (and say it is your own) go to Share-Point.
Now I will start to work on a version of the Romulan Diplomatic.
Attachments:
Tal Shiar Beta.png [ 1.05 MiB | Viewed 8096 times ]
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21 Jun 2010, 02:15 |
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Captain Bashir
Genetically Altered Manual Labourer
Joined: 17 Aug 2009, 01:31 Posts: 2083 Location: Passed out on the floor after math mistake discovered by Hawking
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Superb! I'm a lookin, and I'm a likin! Captain Bashir
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22 Jun 2010, 15:17 |
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Kenneth_of_Borg
Ship Engineer
Joined: 10 Jul 2006, 01:00 Posts: 5130 Location: Space is disease and danger, wrapped in darkness and silence!
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I my be over doing the transporter effect but I can deal with it after I do the Romulan Senate. That is one down and nine to go.
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22 Jun 2010, 18:29 |
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Anti-Distinctlyminty
Cadet
Joined: 19 Jan 2010, 03:27 Posts: 62 Location: Kent, UK
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I've started to do the actual Federation diplomatic building itself now. However, when I came to do it, because of the confusion I/we have had over images sizes, etc. the building looked too small for what was supposed to be the focus of the image, so I created another image where I've made the building larger and I've attached them for comparison. I think the larger one looks better, but I want to know what y'all think before I go further. First the 'normal' size: Attachment:
normal.jpg [ 94.76 KiB | Viewed 8070 times ]
And the larger: Attachment:
larger.jpg [ 103.95 KiB | Viewed 8070 times ]
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23 Jun 2010, 17:08 |
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Anti-Distinctlyminty
Cadet
Joined: 19 Jan 2010, 03:27 Posts: 62 Location: Kent, UK
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Kenneth_of_Borg wrote: I my be over doing the transporter effect but I can deal with it after I do the Romulan Senate. That is one down and nine to go. Aye, it's a touch strong. You'd be better off just putting a spot light on them and then adding the transporter effect after, rather than trying to do it in-render. In fact, that's one thing it took me a long time to learn - don't try to do something in the renderer that you can add/alter in a paint app or compositing app. I also have some suggestions for lighting if you wish?
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23 Jun 2010, 17:21 |
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Kenneth_of_Borg
Ship Engineer
Joined: 10 Jul 2006, 01:00 Posts: 5130 Location: Space is disease and danger, wrapped in darkness and silence!
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The larger one looks better. You could also get the Federation building to standout if you do it's walls in white as Slim had suggested. I am open to all suggestions about Tal Shiar lighting or anything else. There are over 100 lamps in it already so there is a lot that could be changed. Slim had suggested the darker more washed out color look so most of the lamps are turned down low.
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23 Jun 2010, 19:35 |
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Anti-Distinctlyminty
Cadet
Joined: 19 Jan 2010, 03:27 Posts: 62 Location: Kent, UK
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Kenneth_of_Borg wrote: The larger one looks better. You could also get the Federation building to standout if you do it's walls in white as Slim had suggested. White? I thought they were reflective...unless I'm missing something? :/ Quote: I am open to all suggestions about Tal Shiar lighting or anything else. There are over 100 lamps in it already so there is a lot that could be changed. Slim had suggested the darker more washed out color look so most of the lamps are turned down low. The one thing that strikes me about the lighting is it seems a little washed out. I'm not that familiar with Blender, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems you're using a lot of ambient lighting. If you are...don't! It's a cardinal rule of CG lighting to almost never use ambient lighting. Always try to light with sources (you can turn their shadows off hopefully). If you have the blend file I'd just like to have a play, if just so I can use blender and not play around with the default cube
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23 Jun 2010, 21:11 |
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