Hi Guys!
Sorry I was out for a while. Work is growing around here for me and I have to split my time between my work and my home life.
Sorry for intruding here. I'd like to point out one thing here, AndrewJT. I never stipulated anywhere that I was the one and only composer to make the music for this game. I offered my help because I read that they needed musicians and no one was present at the time I answered and started to work on it. Anyone who wishes to join with me is welcome and the music I made was given to the game without any exclusive right, except for my name along with others in the credit section, which I never asked for. And no, I won't quit because you came in nor will I be jealous nor make any problems if they decide to use yours instead of mine. I've got friends here and I intend to respect them as they respect me and stay around for as long as they need me.
To me, free means really free, without any consideration. Should they like it or not and no matter what they decide to do with it, I won't look back.
You have acquired the rights for the TNG music and you wish to share it with this game? Good news! I am happy for you, I have nothing more to say to that and it stays a matter of choice, as you wrote earlier. I won't argue with that and if they choose this music instead, I will still be happy for them and again, won't look back.
I just wanted to share my humble opinion on this, so that I stay at ease with anything that should happen here.

And yes, Professionalism, as you seem to see it, is meant for big Business, not for leisure. To me, Professionalism means nothing more than making the best I can with the experience and resources I have. When it comes to Business, my other Professionalism then hops in... As for the rest, I call it Donation and Share. No harm intended whatsoever. Sorry if it was misunderstood.

Good day everyone!
Happytrek

I agree with you. We can always use more music and I must say that I have the highest respect for you both. To create any music is a big mystery to me and having professional composers really gives the game more depth.

I hope that no one feels unappreciated or kicked out because we are what we are, a group of individuals talented in different areas of game development trying to make the ultimate game for ourselves and other fans.

I believe that if you two split the work into two pieces music could be the first thing finished in this game.

Also the game will probably support more than one track per window and more music diversity enhances the general gameplay and brings the game to a whole other level.

Thank you vjeko1701! You also have my deepest respect.
Happytrek

Good to hear from you again, Andrew . I can assure you that nobody is trying to oust you or shelve your contributions. Projects like ours see people come and go all the time, and it's hardly unusual for someone to show up, contribute, and move on. Sometimes we never hear from them again, and sometimes they resurface months or even years later to help us out again. This sort of thing is all very normal to us, and nobody expects any long term commitments. Real life happens, and nobody's going to hold it against you if you slip under the radar for a while. Even I have been known to disappear for a couple months at a time. No big deal.

Since the flow of contributions is inherently unpredictable, we try to avoid hedging any bets on who will still be here six months down the line. If someone like Happytrek comes along and wants to write music for the game, then we welcome him as we welcomed you. We're glad to have him for as long as he chooses to stick around. If you're still interested in writing music for the game, then we're just as glad to have you onboard now as we were before. If not, then nobody will think any less of you, and we'll still be just as grateful for the work you've already done.

As for Happytrek's music, some of it will end up in the game, and some of it won't. The same goes for your music, Kenneth's models, Zeleni's images, and so on. That's just how things work out. For my part, I've written tens of thousands of lines of code that have been scrapped entirely or rewritten so many times that I've lost count. It's not a judgment or rejection in any way. In fact, your work will probably have one of the highest acceptance rates.

Anyway, I'm glad you haven't forgotten about us. We still have a pretty big soundtrack to fill, and if you're up for it, then we're all eager to hear what you come up with.

Here's where you can see the "misunderstanding" start to take place. Also, I am not here to rattle any cages... I am used to this cutthroat business as I mentioned before I've had several film scores rejected in the past. Jerry Goldsmith once said, "You haven't become a true (film) composer until you've had a score rejected."

However back to the point:










And that last quote is completely wrong as I said earlier. It's illogical to use Star Trek themes in a game that's based entirely on Star Trek?? That doesn't make any sense.

The feeling I got from this was yes, I slipped out for a bit (I've had a very busy schedule).. and in this instance, not only has my music been stated in these quotes as being unusable. There is a new member who has a title as head composer and seems to be pushing his way in through smiles and polite remarks. I am being defensive only because I did commit to a non-paying job and constructed some heavily time consuming orchestral tracks. I've also promoted this game by word of mouth to several people, some that work at Paramount. There was even a conversation about as far as going to ask Mike if he was interested in an Xbox Arcade release of the game.

You are all very nice, and I applaud everyone of you for actually keeping this together. When I first started out as a composer, almost every free project or low budget game always flopped. Tons of my music has been unused and packed away on a backup drive possibly never to be heard again. To see that you guys kept going ( I always checked back once in awhile ) it really motivated me to want to seriously help out with almost every resource I can give.

There is a problem of communication though it seems. This happens a lot too, even in major motion pictures.. people go behind other people's backs and sides are take and it can usually really damage a project or even kill it. I think that Mike and the admin staff... you guys need to organize some sort of chat and organize exactly what you want musically. At this point, the music styles will conflict and it won't work together. I'm also not going to speak against someone who has devoted a ton of time and energy into the project because that isn't fair. Communication can resolve everything... it always does. Something should be done; as it stands the way things are... I cannot possibly produce anything further until this matter is resolved. I apologize if this sounds harsh; however it is the way these things work.

Happytrek: I am not sure if it was your intention to be sneaky and try to convince these guys to make you top dog... or if you're just really trying to honestly help the game. I cannot say, I do not know you. I know from experience that (as said before) this is a cutthroat industry. I do suggest that you read up on the American laws of fair use act under a free project. Part of what you said about using themes is true... but only if this were an original project that was going out for marketed distribution. I also suggest not to give out legal advice that you aren't quite sure on. You're Canadian, right? Also you are old enough to know this can complicate things I am sure.

So guys, take some time and think about what you NEED for the game. What you really WANT. Not what I want, not what anyone else wants. This is YOUR project, and you should get the sound you all agree upon.

- Andrew

Thanks for clearing up the issue of using the Star Trek tunes in the game. That helps a lot. Having read the thread you see where we go on to discuss what you support. It is good to see you back with or without that contribution.

With you gone so long I did not hold out much hope of seeing you again. The only person I know of that has been pushed out of the music for this game was Sandman. I hope we are past that now for everyone including you.

Having looked back in the thread you can see we will take contributions of music from anyone. No one that contributed in the past is being locked out by those contributing now. I hope some of ericjames (Davumaya's) work makes the cut. He was the first to give us tunes. It will be Mike that decides what music is used in any event. What we say about how a song is used in this thread is only our suggestion to Mike.

As you see those contributing are treated with favor, encouragement and respect. I did that for you back then as I do for those contributing now. With your experience and connections in the industry you could be our biggest resource. I hope you will stay on-board.

We don't do titles here, Andrew. There is no "Head Composer", and we don't play by the same set of rules as the games industry. This isn't the same kind of ultra-competitive, cutthroat environment. It couldn't be, or this project would have been doomed a long time ago.

I haven't kept a very close eye on this thread, so I don't know what comments about your music's usability you're referring to, but I'm the one who ultimately makes those calls, and I've never made such a call.

As for Gino (Happytrek), I can vouch that his intentions are among the purest of us. Like the rest of us, he's just happy to be here and is contributing by doing what he loves to do. He doesn't have it in for you or anything like that. He was a bit put off by your original stipulation that you be the sole composer for the game, but I've explained to him (and to others) that you rescinded that requirement a long time ago.

I'm definitely open to discussing and laying out a "sound" for the game. I agree that our current batch of music is a bit haphazard and may not mesh well together. Keep in mind, though, that we are hoping to have distinct music sets for each of the playable empires ("mini-soundtracks"), and those sets needn't necessarily mesh together with each other.

It may be just me, but when this game is done I can foresee all kinds of people creating and submitting artwork, music, mods etc. When it comes to what someone has on their computer (since Supremacy is so modable) none of us have control over that. It isn't a commercial game to be released on DVD. What we are deciding here is simply what is released with the official download. After that...

As one art contributor I have had to come to terms with this unavoidable fact.

CB

I am truly sorry if I did you any harm AndrewJT. It wasn't meant do toss anyone away but I am NOT THE Head Musician in here and what I really meant by my said quote is that we should steer clear of what we don't know about music. I'm not pretending to be better than anyone and I don't read tons of law books and I won't take the time to do it if it is to ruin someone's life. I'm only helping here. Only helping! As Mike clearly stated, some will be taken, some will be left aside.
Your music is indeed quite nice, no doubt about it. I can see you've been working hard. But since you were away for a long period of time, no insult intended, and that there wasn't enough to fill all parts, I thought of giving my share to help complete them (I was the only one who called present at the time).
Now that you're back (if this is still your intention, then you're welcome), you can surely help in putting your touch. As you can see, I've been working hard also to make the project go further, and I thought it would have been great to have a new sound. I repeat! My sole intention here is to see the project advance to a new state and to freely give, we're talking leisure time here, and share what I can do with others, you included. We are musicians, not fighters, I believe! As so, if we can join our efforts I am sure that this project will become a really great game.

But Hey here! We're talking Free game! No big money, no salary, no promotion here, just fun and participation and that's what I'm solely here for. No other intent and no exclusive rights, no throat cutting here, just trying to make something new and give freely with what I have already and everyone who is willing to help IS happily welcome, I am open minded, proud to be a composer, musician, and proud to be treated as so.
Yes, it's true, you don't know me, and I don't know you either, but I'm willing to learn to know you and make you know me a little more, if you wish.
Until then, have a good day.
Happytrek

It seems like there are too many mis-communications and people not remembering saying certain things; also this seems to be going in an entire different direction (contradictions too). I was asked to come here when I was working with Star Trek Excalibur, so I did. I believe it was Kenneth who asked me to come. I don't want to seem nasty... and I'm not trying to be. I am just very straight forward; beating around the bush doesn't get you anywhere.

I think you guys pretty much have your minds made up. So at this point, I must retire myself from this project as well as withdraw any and all music that I created for this project. There are other games out there, and I am a Trek fan. J.J. Abrams has a sequel to his Trek film on the way, and there will be an Xbox Live game attached to that, so I might need what I made for it. There's also no point in you guys using it since the sounds between Happy and myself are too far apart. No hard feelings; I wish you guys the best of luck and again I am very happy to see this thing still going. I hope it goes all the way. I will check back now and then to see the progress.

Mike - If you're still interested in this being ported over to Xbox Live Arcade, contact there human resources directory. A little memo over to Paramount from them and it's pretty much a go. Right now they are looking for two things: indy game development and Star Trek. This has both and I have no doubt in my mind they'll take it.

Happytrek - Good luck with the project... I apologize if what I said seemed harsh; I didn't mean anything rude by it. I am sure you are a really nice person.

The rest of you, good luck... live long and prosper and all that jazz.

- AJT

Sorry to see you go Andrew. Good luck with our other projects. It would be nice to have you drop in if just to let us know what you are working on. I will, as much as I hate to, delete your music from SharePoint per your request.

MOE please take Andrew out of the credits.

Mike will have to replace your work in the downloadable game with the other music we have. That opening screen will not have the same fell.

That is a nice suggestion about XBox. We will miss that kind of input as well. With all our donated content though it would take even a beep pocket company a long and expensive time to replace all that. After all that it would not be Supremacy. A company could and likely is doing just that given our free and open build and that does not bother us. We push on.

I'm sorry to hear that. Eventhough you are before my time on this forum (if that's the right expression) so I don't know you that well, I didn't feel that the compositions made by you and Happytrek's were incompatible. Perhaps when used for the same race but different races need different style and I feel that we are losing a great team member not just in music creation but also one with some important contacts and great knowledge about the game making industry.

Andrew, i'm very surprised by your reaction and decision here. Only today I added you to the staff list!

Ultimately it's your decision, but I honestly can't fathom why you would choose to remove yourself from the project. We have always operated openly and tried to explain things where possible. I would ask you to reconsider your decision, but we won't be held to ransom on this issue either. You've provided us with some great music, and it will definitely be a loss to remove it from the game, but if you want us to do that then we shall. We have always been careful with licensing and you're certainly not the first musician that has pulled out of the project. But we survived and came back stronger. Supremacy will continue even if you no longer wish to be part of the team.

Thank you Andrew.
No apologies necessary, as I think I understand partly what you feel. We all have our ways of dealing with life.
It is sad that it has to end this way, but I was really sincere when I said that I would have liked to share my experience with you. In this project, I am only a helping hand. I give my best of what I think any people would do to help. Maybe I don't have your experience or your equipment in this kind of thing, or maybe my tastes and views differ from yours, I might never know in the future.
But I was ready to learn and adapt to those differences and maybe a little of both worlds (as vjeko1701 mentioned) would have made things better, or not, who knows without trying?
I wish you success also in all your projects. I cannot say more without repeating myself. Hop in sometimes if you feel like knowing me better or just to chat a little.
In hope of a better understanding, see you AndrewJT!
Happytrek

Ok Guys! Let's start with something here! I made a test for an intro. It's the first part only and it's not balanced yet.
Supremacy Intro Theme_42s_Gino Véziau. You'll find it in Experimental and tests. It still needs a little working with but I just wanted to share with you. Maybe I'm totally out of it!
I'll have to wait also until Mike hears it but I think it's a good start.

Good day!
Happytrek

BTW: I started looking for a new PC/software for my music with better sounding instruments. I think with $2000 it should be enough to have something good.
I made a list of most of the components I would need. I checked at a store I usually go not far from my place.
Intel i7 Quad Core 860 or 870 (1156)
Motherboard = Gigabyte P55-UD3
2X HD WD Caviar Black or Green 1Tb (Raid1) (I wanted a SSD Disk for Win 7 but I'll wait until the price lowers a bit)
4 to 6 Gb of Ram, DDR3
Graphic Card 1Gb (Ati or NVidia)
Sound Card Creative X-FI Titanium Fatal!ty
Windows 7 64 Bits
Plus all the accessories, software and shabang to go with it, I should be not far from my budget range. ($1500
to $1700 all tax included) It's not a dream PC but it's enough to be comfortable I guess.

In my opinion:

I really like the first half of it. After that it seams to lose it's way a bit. It reminds me a lot of the intro theme for Star Trek the Next Generation. Listen to that on an old episode. First there is that slow science fiction sense of wonder sound with Pickard taking in his baritone voice. You have that sound. Then it breaks out into a faster tempo and symphonic sound. They put some sound effects of a star ship engine and then jump to warp in the background. It reminds me of the Star Wars theme in the style and feel. It has a sense of bold moves and exhilaration. That is what I would like to hear in the second part. I will send you some sound effects when I get home. MOE may have some as well.

BTY The music was the only part of the first Star Wars that George Lukas's said lived up to his imagination and expectations. That so far is what you are doing here. Save us Gino, you are our only hope.

Sounds like a nice PC. You will give MOE a run for the speed record.

Till later AndrewJT. We're sorry to see you go. Captain Bashir

You have such a way of explaining things that I already feel like I'm actually in the game.

As for the song, that is why I stopped there. Those last measures are not to be counted anyway, I was just asking myself: 'Am I to go boldly or stay on the sector?'.
Mike will hear it also and that's where we'll know if I boldly go or... I'll keep this intro part there, and make two different parts in other songs so that we can hear what is best. I'll be waiting for your sound effects to insert them in the song(s).

The overall sound will definitely change later when I will be using my new sound cards. It's a matter of a few weeks now. I must not go too fast at this point and be patient for a little while.

I'm doing all my best to help. Thanks to you also (the whole group here) for giving me a push.

Happytrek

I gave it a quick listen a couple hours ago while at the office, and my initial reaction was similar to Kenneth's: the introduction is familiar yet original. There is definitely a Star Trek influence here, but the music doesn't sound derivative. I think you're off to a great start.

I will need to go back and listen to the latter half again when I get home and can pay more attention .

We may want to extend that intro. Just note the time it takes Picard to say "Boldly go where no one has gone before." More on that later.

Thanks guys!
I guess we're up to something now! I'll wait on the Intro voice before finishing it and right after the voice, I'll be giving it a definitive Go! theme. It might last for more than 2 minutes though, because I believe you will be adding some more effects in there since it will serve as the Game Intro. I can't wait for the final result!
Happytrek

Hi friends! I'm still here. I'm just (still) trying to find a good program for my music to get new sounds. Windows 7 64 bits is something new to me. I have a little problem with my keyboard connections at the moment because I have to configure my new PC and find the right cables (USB2 to MIDI) for playing my keyboard since I don't have a regular MIDI connection, and the right software to do it. I'll be back in soon to finish the small events and the Combat songs.
Thanks for your patience.
Happytrek

That sounds complicated. I do not know what it takes but I did see this.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001LJ ... ASEX4K3GZV

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0017H ... YEEK217YFJ

http://www.amazon.com/TASCAM-USB-2-0-Au ... B000K6CQP6

Thank you for the infos my friend!
Looks like we were connected together (again) because I just found the same thing (the cable) you just showed me and at a store nearby. I made a search for my town and I saw exactly the same cable, a few blocks away, though the price shown is very good. The module looks good also but I guess I'll only need the cable for now.

It looks like I"ll be back to work sooner than I thought! I found my music software and bought it. I'm expecting the delivery man in a few days now.
Thank you again for your help Kenneth!

I'll be back here as soon as I receive my stuff and updated my songs. I can't wait to start again! :P(salivate) (crazy drool!)

I am glad to hear you are getting our gear together.

I hope you are not too frightened off by buying online. Here is an example of what I was just able to do. The retailer store Best Buy had an add out in most papers in the US for a "Back Friday" sale. This is a big sale day in the US market leading up to Christmas. I was shopping for an iMac as a gift. The "door buster" sale at Best Buy was 20 dollars more than the price online at the Apple virtual store sale. They both charge sales tax that is about 94 dollars locally. The Apple store offered it with free shipping. I was then able to find it at Amazon.com for the Apple store sale price with free shipping and no tax. Apple is not known for big sales, and this was an example, but add in the tax, shipping, not driving over to get it and that adds up. You need to be up on our security to us a credit card online but if you are there are ways to spend less.

In fact, I used internet already to buy a few things at dead low price like my gear I bought for a bread slice. But I'm trying not to get too hasty in spending on credit card. It's so easy to get overboard if one doesn't take care. And I'm a big spender myself so I need to hold my horses a bit! And I want everything! lol
Happytrek

Looks like everything is working again on the site. I've uploaded my avatar again. My lovely pip is there again. (a parent of and ) Cute!
I should also be up and working in a week or two, if I can install everything into my new computer.
More to come a bit later.
Good day!
Happytrek

I'd say it's more like a child. Although where the ginger comes from is a mystery.

That's what I thought at first but she looks too sexy to me to be a child. So then I'll call her Lil Orion, daughter of Mr Green and Ms Love! And treat her as a child. How old is she? Two days? A Baby then? So cute!
Happytrek

Technically she's two months. But she was only released into the wild last night lol.