Hey guys, for years now I've been following the BOTF2 project(s) from a distance, but yesterday I finally tried the Supremacy pre-release. I must say I was quite impressed, this is exactly what one would expect from a BOTF sequel. Though obviously incomplete and unbalanced, the foundation seems very solid to expand on and eventually make this the ultimate BOTF experience. I'll post my first observations, and will continue posting additional issues when I encounter them. I haven't read all the topics (sorry, I always feel I'm out in the jungle when browsing these forums), so sorry if any of this has already been discussed.

1) I posted a question years ago about using waypoints for ship movement, and was told back then this was already planned to be implemented in Supremacy. Yet I couldn't find this in the pre-release. Am I overlooking something, is this something on the to do-list, or will this not make the project after all ?

I'm asking because this was one of the things that annoyed me most in BOTF. When a ship with movement speed of 3 had to move to a system 3 squares furter, but not in a straight line, the program automatically plotted the route. But this auto-route often wasn't the route you'd want, possibly passing through harmful sectors (like neutron stars), or not passing through a unexplored star sector. The possibility of manually plotting ship movement with waypoints would prevent all these problems.

2) I built a troop transport, but I cannot build an outpost with it. Maybe I need to make a scientific advance first (haven't checked this yet), but even then the description of a transport mention outpost construction, so that would seem rather silly if outposts haven't been invented yet. Please enlighten me.

3) Building times are improperly balanced, but I assume you're already aware this needs finetuning.

4) I would prefer to have at least 1 scout ship at the start of the game.

5) I get an error message immediately after exiting the game. Not that it bothers me much, but I thought I'd mention it.

6) In the Announcements section, a dead link is given for Supremacy pre-release download : http://botfii.armadafleetcommand.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1570. I think this is generally the first place where people would look for the download, at least I did, so you might want to update the link.

7) I'm running the game on Vista, and you might be interested to know I haven't encountered any problems. The load time at the start of the game was pretty long, but after that, turns are processed pretty quickly. Must say I've only tried a small universe so far, will let you know how things work out with a large one.

That's it for now. And don't let this sound as if I'm very critical about Supremacy, on the contrary. But I assumed the pre-release was also intended for people to test and provide feedback, so that's what I'm doing.

Hey Horoma, welcome to your posting return on the forums!

I've got some answers for you:

1) Yes, you are missing something. Try selecting a ship, then ctrl-click on where you want to go. Waypoints were implemented quite a while ago.

2) The lack of outposts seems to be a mistake in the game *somewhere*. I just checked and I can't build outposts either, but you were definitely able to build them in the last release of the game. I did some research (Got all areas to level 1, Outposts require all levels to be level 0 or above though) but that didn't work. Mike (The developer, aka Mstrobel) is currently away at a works thing and won't be back for a few days, but i'll raise this with him when he gets back. When it *does* work though, you should be able to right-click on the transport icon on the left, and 'build outpost' would be one of the options along with avoid, engage, etc.

3) Yes, we are very aware of this problem. The game won't recieve any balancing until the game is much nearer completion. There's no point in doing it if you don't know how the other empires and minor races are balanced, for instance. We also need to make sure the AI is capable of building fairly as well, but the AI doesn't even exist yet.

4) So would I. This will be added in a future release of the game. Like I said earlier, Mike is away at a works thing at the moment, but he's also been VERY busy since about February due to moving house and general work-related things. Mike has barely done any work on Supremacy because of this which is why there has been a dearth of updates lately, but he will begin programming again once work decides to ease up on him.

5) A few people have mentioned error messages, and it occaisionally hangs or fails to close properly. If you could tell us what the error message says, (Write it down or make a screenshot) and what your PC stats are, (Windows version, processor, RAM, and graphics) Mike may be able to help you when he returns. Try checking your task manager as well to ensure the game actually is closing down properly. Look for a program called "SupremacyClient.exe". If you see it after you've closed the game, close it.

6) I've already fixed a few of those. Thanks for letting me know, i've updated the link. The dead links have occured because we updated the forums over christmas, so the links changed slightly. The forums used to be botfii.armadafleetcommand.com but they are now botfii.armadafleetcommand.com/forums. The addition of the /forums bit means all the old links no longer work.

7) I'm glad to hear it's working well for you. Some people have reported very strange errors, but for the most part Supremacy is extremely stable, even though it is only a pre-alpha release. (It's hard to believe but it's true. Most games are in the beta stages before even a closed public release occurs) Mike absolutely needs feedback from the community, so he won't take this as criticism at all. If anything it will actually encourage him!

Have fun trying the huge Galaxy map...you're in for a long load time, but the map really is seriously huuuuge.

Just to answer your question number 2 ... Troop transports (or just 'Transport' in the game) no longer build stations ... 'Construction Ships' do.

Is there something up with the shiplist MOE? (Transports vs Construction - a name change?)

Hmmm...looks like I had a dodgy copy of Supremacy. Guess I forgot to refresh my installation after the last time I tried to mod the game. Construction ships weren't showing up and neither were a couple of other things.

You need a construction ship to build Outposts, Horoma.

@MOE:
(1) I see we do not have a construction ship in the shiplist. Is a Transport = Construction ship now? (I think this is old news but just wanted to check)

Also

(2) If I have it right the Klingons and the Federation also have a tanker but not the Romulans, Cards and the Dominiones per the shiplist. Is that correct?

(3) I take it we are still up in the air about the use of tankers?

To my knowledge, the whole tankers idea had been scrapped, (They would result in waaay too much micromanagement, even by my standards) and any tanker models that we had were going to be recycled as minor race designs or used elsewhere.

Transports and construction ships are two separate designs that will be equally necessary during the colonization of a planet or construction of a station:

Transports will provide the personnel needed to construct stations and will still be "used up". They will also provide all the raw materials needed by new colonies, although they will NOT be used up during colonization. These models therefore need to have a boxy/compartment design that looks like it was designed to be easily dismantled.

Construction ships provide all the equipment and robots that are needed to actually build a station. They will also be responsible for repairing damaged stations, and *may* have a limited capability for repairing ships that are far from a shipyard. Ships will still be able to slowly repair themselves though, based on the experience levels of the crew.

The whole process of colonizing a system will be more complex than in BOTF1. This is roughly how it will work, although without Mike i'm not sure that he is definitely going to follow this plan.

You will need a task force made from at least 1 of each of the four following ships: Science vessel, Colony ship, Construction ship, Transport. Your science ship will first chart the system in detail for ideal places to start a colony. The Colony ship will then transport some of its crew to the surface where the people wil start exploring. The rest of the crew will then make final preparations and begin to dismantle their ship. The construction ship will then begin to construct any necessary structures from the resources provided by the transport and the systems of the colony ship. The colonists will then begin to settle the planet while the science ship serves as defense and the central command point. Obviously you won't actually see any of this, it will just happen over the course of several turns. I'm still not sure what is happening with terraforming however, so we will have to wait and see what Mike's plans are for this area.

That sounds great. Please add the construction ships into the shiplist when you have a handle on the number of and tech level for each race.
(? minor races that expand need all these ship types?)

- and please take out the tankers

I guess someone can make a 2D image to show when the colonization and station building takes place .- In BOTF I there was that colonization image that ran with each race's statement about calming or colonizing a new home. (I recorded the same for each major race BTW)

OPPS - the Klingons have a science station and no science ship. We need to address all races with a science ship?