Will the planets on the Supremacy UI be animated?
Or will they be a static image?
Do you want/need images/animations for these?
What formats? What sizes? What limitations?

Actually, I was just toying with animated planet meshes the other day. I'd say it's likely that the planets will be 3D spheres instead of static images. I haven't had the chance to do any solid research into WPF/3D, so I'm not sure about texture sizes yet. As for image format, PNG is always my top choice.

Mike

Looks like you can help him then, ZDarby!

Go on, show him your Planets!

I did full planet meshes as well if you want them. I made AVIs of them as well.

Unfortunately, if it's a 3d planet I'll have the same problem I have with Jig: the maps for the plantes I have look bad at the poles because of projection distortions... I think I'm gonna have to recreate them -- the ones that look good, anyway -- as I've yet to find a way to modify them appropriately...

However, planet textures for our solar system are pretty good: JPL, dontcha know. If you want those...

Well, I've successfully implemented a system view panel with 3D rotating planets, so unless I run into problems later on, we will definitely have them.

For now I'm using the planet textures from the FreeOrion project, since they were kind enough to grant me permission to use their artwork. However, it would be nice to gradually phase them out with our own textures. Ideally, I'd like to have 3 different textures for each planet type (for greater variety).

I've uploaded the textures for you to take a look at:

Note that the planet types don't quite match up with the BOTF2 specs, so we are missing a few. Below is a mapping of the BOTF2 planet types to the textures that I currently have:

Barren -> Barren
Desert -> Desert
Gas Giant -> Gas Giant
Volcanic -> Inferno
Oceanic -> Oceanic
Jungle -> Swamp (?)
Terran -> Terran
Arctic -> Tundra
Crystalline -> ???
Rogue -> ???
Demon -> ???

You can find the BOTF2 planet specifications here:

If you'd like to to work on textures, it'd be most useful for you to work on the ones that don't have a proper mapping yet. Also, I would like to get some good textures for the Sol system, so send me a PM when you get a chance .

Cheers,
Mike

Hmm so in our solor system will there be 8 planets, 9 or 8 with 3 "drawf planets" :p

Hehe...I wonder if there's gonna be a BOTF mod for that? There's already been talk of it over on Armadafleetcommand...

I don't see what kind of mod you could do for that. I don't think you can add a new planet size. I don't really see the point, either.

Hey, all;

Great to see another game in the works!!
I have a comment and a question...

1. Oh come ON! surely we nerds would find
that a way to define the word planet to be
a GOOD THING! Even if it makes us fix our
little maps

2. Now, a serious question arising from the
above rant: If it is possible to play with the
new home systems, why not use the oppor-
tunity to improve the accuracy of our solar
system? We could have 8 planets, as
it should probably be, and even start off
with ONLY Earth colonized. Besides, is there
anything from Trek that mentions that there
is a colony on Pluto?

- Will we be able to colonize moons, too, or
is that too complicated for what we're going
for here?

- Will it take more advanced technology to
colonize, say, Venus than it would to start
a colony on Mars? (Venus is a much harder
place to live...) So will there only be certain
planet types open for colonization at any
given tech level? (of course by the time the
best colony ship is developed, they're all
open)

Just some thoughts!

So we're basically saying that with this system, the actual planetary types would be changed if you were to terraform the Planets.

I like the sound of that, as I thought the BOTF system was a little too simplistic, with the Planets magically being habitable after terraforming even though there was no visible difference in the Planets.

Still, this system means that by the end of the game, EVERY Planet would be class M, (If you were Federation) class L (If you were the Klingons) and so on.

That's a little bit boring, really.

You also have to think about special bonuses. What happens to the energy and food bonuses of a Planet when it is terraformed? Does an energy bonus become a food bonus and vice-versa depending on terraforming type? Are the bonuses simply lost? Can bonuses be gained?

The habitation project idea was mine, and I simply envisioned this to be an "expansion" project; it was meant to allow Moons to become colonisable, rather than allowing less habitable worlds to become habitable.

I could imagine a system with multiple projects would work well though.

As an example, we could set it like this:

Ideal Planets
Federation Terran Planets.
Klingons Jungle Planets. (We know the klingons hunt their food in Jungles and forests)
Romulans Terran Planets. (Desert Planets could be acceptable as well though because of their Vulcan heritage - perhaps we could make this a Romulan bonus, at least in the early game?)
Cardassians Desert Planets.
Dominion Barren Planets. (Since Rogue planets aren't in this list)

Tech 1
Can Construct: No additional habitation projects available.
Can colonise: Ideal Planets.

Tech 2
Can Construct: No additional habitation projects available.
Can Colonise: Ideal Planets.

Tech 3
Can Construct: Colonial Expansion Project.
Can Colonise: Ideal Planets, Comfortable Planets.

Tech 4
Can Construct: No additional habitation projects available.
Can Colonise: Ideal Planets, Comfortable Planets.

Tech 5
Can Construct: Lunar Habitation Modules.
Can Colonise: Ideal Planets, Comfortable Planets, Large Moons.

Tech 6
Can Construct: Colonial Expansion Project 2.
Can Colonise: Ideal Planets, Comfortable Planets, Large Moons, Adequate Planets.

Tech 7
Can Construct: Lunar Habitation Domes.
Can Colonise: Ideal Planets, Comfortable Planets, Large Moons, Adequate Planets, Medium Moons.

Tech 8
Can Construct: Lunar Habitation Biospheres.
Can Colonise: Ideal Planets, Comfortable Planets, Large Moons, Adequate Planets, Medium Moons, Small Moons.

Tech 9
Can Construct: None
Can Colonise: Ideal Planets, Comfortable Planets, Large Moons, Adequate Planets, Medium Moons.

Tech 10
Can Construct: Colonial Expansion Project 3.
Can Colonise: Ideal Planets, Comfortable Planets, Large Moons, Adequate Planets, Medium Moons, Inhospitable Planets. (Rogue Planets?)

Tech 11
Can Construct: None.
Can Colonise: Ideal Planets, Comfortable Planets, Large Moons, Adequate Planets, Medium Moons, Inhospitable Planets.

Tech 12
Can Construct: None.
Can Colonise: Ideal Planets, Comfortable Planets, Large Moons, Adequate Planets, Medium Moons, Inhospitable Planets.

Obviously we could rejig the names so that they sound right for the various races, as we did in my System-Wide Dome Construction Project Thread. What do people think?

*Edit - hmm...people posted whilst I typed this.

The Ferengi aren't really an isue coz they won't be an Empire. I think it was mentioned several times in DS9 that Ferenginar was a Jungle Planet, though.

I also agree with what you said about the ring, Centurion. Perhaps it needs to be though out a bit more and made less simplistic.

Well SOME of the minor races will be able to expand to other systems - but I never saw ANY of them do that in BOTF1, Centurion.

I imagine that the minors will either have a generic colony ship, or they will simply "appear" in a system as you suggested.

Jarok could be on to something though, because the Sheliak are masters of environmental modification. They would have an advantage in this respect, eg. they can colonise a Planet one level earlier than the other races, or they have a higher growth rate on inhospitable Planets etc.

Wow, what a debate all of a sudden

Anyway, I wouldn't make this concept more difficult than it's nescessary. It is impossible to terraform an Arctic planet all the way to a full class M world or even further down the line. The of terraforming in BotF worked fine in my opinion.

Your idea about the tech levels could work as well, Matress. I just think it can be done a lot more simpler by simply giving each successive colony ship the ability to terraform more planet types.

In the end, it all depends on preference, though. As all ideas in this thread could work in theory.

Okay, here is another thought (maybe)

Because of the complexity of the environments we're talking about, I think the expansion process should be more intuitive. The way we're talking now, the workload of expanding into a system even after colonization would almost be a game in itself (albeit a fun one!)

So here is my proposed solution:

1. Colony Ships will NOT be able to terraform....ever. However, they will be able to colonize whatever planets your tech level allows. For example, a Level 1 empire can only colonize 'Ideal' planets, a Level 2 empire can colonize 'Ideal' and 'Comfortable' planets; at Level 3, 'Ideal', 'Comfortable', 'Adequate', and so on in whatever manner the planet classifiation system requires. It could be such that one would have to wait for quite a few tech levels to be able to colonize really inhospitable planets.

So in this system, you take your colony ship to a new system, and when you order colonization, they will deploy on whichever planets have 'green' letters. That number would increase as you have the tech to live on more planets.

Because the terraforming potential of a colony ship is thus eliminated, the advantages of Colony Ships II and III would be in number of colonists and numbers of structures on the new colony.

From this point, there are now a few options as to how we might proceed.

2a. BOTF-I expansion model. As you terraformed more planets in a system you had already colonized, the population would be automatically assumed to expand onto them, since the later colony ships could not 're-colonize'. So in this system, as your tech level allows you to colonize more planets in the system, they would automatically appear 'green' (as 'colonizable'), and the population would naturally be assumed to expand onto the new planets.

I like this system because once you have colonized a system, there is nothing else for the player to worry about. This is certainly the simplest way of expanding colonies.

However, I think that a player should do SOMETHING to expand and not just land on the biggest system around and wait....

Soo.....

2b. Follow Matress' suggestion regarding construction projects, but modify it for simplicity. When your tech level allows you to expand onto other planets in your colony, (you will be notified by the research screen telling you about the breakthrough), you will be able to construct a "Colonization Project". This would automatically purchase whatever basic items you would need to live on the new planet.

The cost and time would then naturally vary by the amount of biospheres and pressure domes you would need. (so colonizing an inhospitable planet would take more doing than colonizing a comfortable planet, for example). When it is done, all of the planets in the system you can colonize at your new tech level turn green and the population naturally moves onto them.

I suppose you could control which planets you wanted to colonize, and do one at a time and thus save money. But I think it would be easier if you just selected the "colonization project" in the build queue and the computer calculated how much it would cost and how long it would take. Simple, at least for the player (but I pity the programmer )

I like this because it makes the player do something to colonize more planets, but that something is still really straightforward.
____________________

So in summary...

1. Colony ships won't terraform, but you can automatically survive on any planets that your tech level allows you to colonize. Planets you can colonize will appear green ala BoTF I. (If you can't colonize any planets in the system at this time, tough luck! )

Because you can now only start colonies on one or a few planets, we need a way of expanding them when technology allows you to live in harsher places.
I propose two options.

2a. The computer does it for you, and the newly-accessible planets turn green and your population moves onto them without you lifting a finger.

2b. You get a 'Colonization Project' in the build queue that takes some time and costs money, but when it is done whatever new planets in the system in which you built the project you can now live on turn green and your population moves onto them.

It really is simple, even if I wore out my keyboard explaining it!!!

I suppose that any new system we use would need to figure out exactly what the planet types are and how hospitable they would be for various races. I really DO like the circle-of-planets idea, and will mostly work within that, if I can manage it. I'll start with a list, though, so everyone knows where I am coming from. All information is from DITL.

Class A - Young planet far from star. Cools and freezes.
Class B - Partially molten due to proximity to star. No atmosphere.
Class C - Small, frozen planet. Frozen atmosphere.
Class D - Rocky and airless. Basically planet-sized asteroid.
Class E - Molten Surface. Young. Only in newly-formed systems.
Class F - Volcanically active. Evolve to Class G.
Class G - Crystalline surface. Evolves into rocky planets.
Class H - Arid, may be bathed in radiation. Marginally habitable.
Class I - Gas Supergiants.
Class J - Gas Giant, May or may not have rings.
Class K - Inhabitable only with pressure domes
Class L - Plant life only with limited oxygen.
Class M - 'Minshara' or Terran.
Class N - Reducing. Runaway greenhouse effect. High surface temp.
Class O - Oceanic. 80%+ liquid water.
Class P - Glaciated. 80%+ ice cover. (Essentially frozen Class O)
Class Q - Variable, rapidly changing climate.
Class R - Rogue planets. No star system.
Class S - Ultragiants. Failed stars, almost brown dwarfs.
Class T - Gas Giants with unusual ring systems
Class Y - Demon Planet. Uncolonizable. Radiation damages ships in orbit. Rich in resources.

<http://www.ditl.org>

We can drop the gas giants for our purposes (I, J, S, T), as well as any which only exist in young systems and evolve (A, E, G). We can also probably drop Rogues (R), and the utterly uncolonizable Class Y. Finally, we will not discuss Class Q, because even if it exists in the game, it would act as whatever climate phase it was going through.

This leaves us with Class B, C, D, F, H, K, L, M, N, O, and P as planet classes any colonization method the game adopts will cover. I assume that moons will be treated as either Class D, F, or C.

Our Solar System would look like this.
Mercury (B), Venus (N), Earth (M), Mars (H), Jupiter (J), Saturn (J), Uranus (J), Neptune (J) Okay, Fine......and Pluto (C).

8O

PART THE SECOND....

Now for that habitability system. Here is the Circle of Planet Classes as I see it. If you disagree, let me know.

................[*M*].....[O*]

.....[L*].............................[P*]



.[H*]...............[D!]................[C*]



.....[K*]..............................[B]

..................[N]........[F]


FINALLY!!! STUPID KEYBOARD!!!

Anyway, the space your species evolved on is 'Ideal', the next space either way is 'comfortable', two spaces away is 'adequate', three spaces away is 'marginal', and anything beyond that is 'Hostile'. Bear in mind that all classes will eventually be colonizable, it just takes higher technology to do so.

** Human (and many races) start from M-class planets.

* At least one major or minor race is known to start from these other planet classes.

! I put Class D in the middle, because as a barren rock, it is equally uninhabitable to everyone! I would put it three 'spaces' from everyone.

I had another thought while I was typing all that stuff. I am almost sure this will be my last one on this thread - at least for tonight!!!

Can we make sure that the AI doesn't do stupid stuff like have planets in reverse order of where they should be, like having an arctic-type planet closer to the star than a volcanic or molten one?

Trek sites tend to divide solar systems up into zones in which certain planet classes show up. These zones could vary in size and number of planets in them for a given star, so it would not really effect what the computer wanted to create. It would only dictate, given a number of randomly chosen planet classes, where they can go in the solar system model!

HOT ZONE:
Class B, F, N, D

TEMPARATE ZONE:
Class L, M, O, H, K, N, F, D

COLD ZONE:
Class P, C, D, maybe K.

Gas Giants can be anywhere, as could Class Q if they are in the game. Class R, even if in, obviously wouln't be here.

I hope that something like this could be put into the system generator or whatever creates the map.

Alright, this thread has grown quite a bit while I was working on my Prob/Stat homework, so allow me to chime in.

Jarok's proposal for colonization is very much what I had in mind. No more terraforming with colony ships. Instead, you would be able to colonize immediately, but your maximum population and growth rate would be negatively impacted by a planet's deviation from the Ideal environment. There could be advanced construction projects to improve your growth rate and max population on less hospitable planets later in the tech tree. Maybe transforming planets from one type into another via terraforming projects wasn't a great idea, but we could achieve a similar effect by adding new building projects (bigger domes, better atmospheric processors, etc). Those innovations could increase your growth capacity without changing the planet type.

As for the longer list of planet classifications, I think it would be best to keep things simple by restricting the number of planet types to those defined in the BOTF2 Database. Even though the galaxies will be bigger than BOTF1, we'll have a lot more minor races, and we don't want so much variation between star systems that it's too difficult to find appealing colony sites. If I added any more planet types, we'd need a lot more planet textures, and I'd probably have to go back and tweak the galaxy generator a bit.

As for the positions of various planet types within a star system, the distributions are calculated based on a set of tables and random elements. I wrote up an explanation of how it works before, so I'll try to dig it out. If I recall correctly, however, I choose the planet size first (influenced by the orbital "slot"), and then the planet type (influenced by the planet size). So strictly speaking, there are no temperature zones in the current implementation.

There is a test of the galaxy grid and galaxy generator available in the other Supremacy forum, if you'd like to see what kind of star system configurations are created.

Adding temperature zones in the solar system would only affect one component of the game--the galaxy generator. I can always make it more realistic later on, or someone else can modify it.