This is the proposed Object database for the Feds as it currently stands in accordance with the tech tree and Empire structure list.


Object Database File

I really like a great deal of this! Great work!

A couple of the structures have created some issues for me, either in what they do or how they are described:

Since there are 12 tech levels (as far as I know), shouldnt' there be level 12 production, energy, intel, and food facilities (I agree that since a player will redirect research immediately upon reaching the top of the tech tree, a level 12 research facility is kind of a moot point....)

The description for the Mass Replicator could use some work. Perhaps something along the lines of:
"Breakthroughs in construction technology have allowed for the creation of large scale replication facilities. These are capable of producing in one step finished products that in the past required many levels of pre-fabrication in both human and nano-constructor facilities."

The description for the FNS sounds a lot like a state-controlled puppet news service. I was under the impression that the FNS was a free civilian newsgroup. Perhaps something like this:
"The people of the Federation appreciate open understanding of how their government affects their lives. Allowing a free press provides the public with a necessary window into the decision-making processes that affect them, and the resulting transparency of government generally improves morale."

thoughts?

Actually i was a bit lazy in the descriptions of a number of structures that existed in the first game, as I reused them. The Mass Replicator was one I wrote, but others such as for the farms I copy/pasted from BOTF. But yeh I agree some of the descriptions do need improving, and i like the samples you posted.

Yes the tech tree does go to 12, and the systems structures go up to 11. In the first game the tree went up to 10, but you could only buy up to Type 9 farms, Plasma reactors etc. The top tech level is reserved for the top of the line ship you get at the end.

The FNS description was done at the time to emphasize its function as a morale stabilizer. Perhaps it does sound a little too fascist in tone, lol. I'll revise it, but I do like your take on it.

looking good dafedz
really looking fwd 2 playing this

Another thought.....

Yeah, I recognized some of the BotF I entries. Hey, if they work, why not use them again. I'm glad you replaced most of the really stupid-sounding ones!

Thought about energy structures:

Wind Turbines - Desert Planet, one per system
Advanced Turbines - Desert Planet, upgrade of wind turbines, one per system.
-reason: No atmosphere (and thus no wind) on a barren planet! 8O
Solar Panel Array - Barren planet, one per system.
-reason: no atmosphere would let even more energy into array than desert heat!

Love the Thermal Tether! Great addition!! I'd just say switch the planet types for the wind turbines and solar array!

Just a thought....

Quite no. Reason: Terraforming. Just think of earth's moon in the 23th century: There are even big lakes (Lake Riker anyone ), that's the reason why you are finally abled to have some population on those planets. Of course terraforming could mean to build up just athmospheric pressure shields ore something, but does it really matter?

Looking good dafedz.
Thats not really a good example. Even if there are lakes on Luna, they would be inside pressure domes (or whatever). In the Ds9 episode 'Vaiant' Jake talks to a girl raised on Luna, and she talks about going outside the pressure dome in EVA suits to see the lunar sunrise.

But, like you said, does it really matter?

I was just thinking about that. I assumed that any colonization of a barren planet would involve pressure domes! I still think that the way I put the structures makes sense.....

But then if absolutely no one agrees with me, then so be it



There are not only lakes, but seas on Luna, right now! That does not mean that there is liquid water on the surface (TNG shots of the moon show quite the opposite)! We have always called those dark plains 'seas', so closer examination and colonization could easily lead to 'lakes', as well, with no water involved!

I know that there would probably be lakes inside pressure domes, but then again how does that lead to wind that can be harnessed as energy? The only wind in a pressure dome is either VERY BAD or takes energy to create.

I just figured that windstorms on a desert planet make more sense for wind turbines, while intense, unfiltered sunlight on barren worlds would make a perfectly nice solar array!

Actually, I do agree with you, Jarok, I just forgot to say it. But since I seem to agree with almost everything you say, I thought you would take it as a given.

I swear, you come up with some good ideas...

Anyways, yes, wind turbine make more sense for a dessert, and sloar generators for barren planets. Hopefully it can be changed around.

Yeh that's no biggy, I can change it round no problem if that's what's preferred. But in the first game Wind Turbines could only be built on barren planets, so I simply reused the idea. A barren planet doesn't have to mean to wind or no atmosphere, I can imagine it being desert-like, but cold rather than hot, and quite turbulent, like Mars I guess.

no barren planets(like mars) do have high speed winds. If it has a dust storm it can last half a year, dont forget there is no really wind breaks, no major mountains(weathered away) and no trees or structures. The only other place with winds at high speed is on Venus, and the turbines would melt or erode there!

In sort wind turbines could be put on a barren planet!

You're probably right UnDated!
I can't imagine the Federation ever colonizing Venus even through Terraforming. Too harsh conditions and who would want to live there?

i have terrible spelling (mainly cause i cant type...) i meant to say that of course jupitor and all gas gaints have higher speeds, but u really cant live there! :S

In regards to Venus, you may be incorrect.
It is perhaps logical to presume that by the time of Star Trek, materials science has progressed far enough to resist the temperatures and acidities of Venus; I mean many races had to develop suitable materials to resist the rapidly changing temperatures that would theoretically come from maintaining Warp Drive speeds (augmented of course by the Structural Integrity Field). One could summise that they could have suitable materials and SI Fields to resist the, at best, harsh conditions of Venus.

I can also recall from the episode "Past Tense Part 1" that Venus maintained several terraforming stations on the surface indicating that their Venus was habitable to some degree.

That looks perfect .

Raises one question though. you sated the intel thread is still at a disscussion stage between you and the other devs so does this mean the intel values you give in the object list are purely based on BOTF1 and that you havent decided if teh intel will be one figure or if it will be split into internal or external yet ?

You've put the Habitation Project in!

Like I said in it's original thread, where did the need for the Terraforming capabilities of a Colony ship befoire you could build the Project come from? Will it occur as an option by selecting the ship, or will it be a selectable 'building' only when a Colony ship is in the same sector?

I can understand it if you had to lose a Colony ship to 'Colonise' the Moons (Thereby creating the Habitation Domes - sorry Horadrim ) but I don't understand why they need to be there to Terraform...

...

I really like the progression that you've creted in the structures, Dafedz, especially the move from Fusion reactors to Plasma reactors. (A move which the Cardassians apparently never made in BOTF)

It's also great that Mass replicators are now a later development, improving upon the older technology of Fabricator plants. Nice one!

Ohh yea dafd i meant to thankyou for using project not domes. Cheers.

I know why you dont like the description of domes, horadrim, but I really dont see it as a big deal. In fact pressure domesare mentioned in cannon trek (DS9: The Valiant, anyone?) I mean, if they arent domes, what are they, pressure cubes, pressure cones, perhaps a stately tetrahedron? (Sorry, the last line is from Futurama, but you get my point.)

Habitation tetrahedron, that has a nice ring to it, lol.

Intel is on the back burner. I don't know what system will be used, but yes the figures in the table are just based on Botf for now.

Matress, the Colony ship explanation I did mention somewhere, can't remember where. But in order for the Project to be constructed, the Moon must receive some terraforming treatment first. The Colony ship will not be lost, it's not the same function or command as 'Colonize', whereby the the Colony ship is expended colonizing the planet. It will probably be a simple single turn terraforming procedure of a Colony Ship III to prepare the moon for the habitation project to commence. The project will not be available to buy in the system until you've done your terraforming work.

And thanks, glad people like the list so far.

Right, so let me work this out then, Dafedz.

1) You 'Terraform' the Moon(s) (So is this done on an individual basis like Planets, or all Moons at once? I was also told Terraforming of Moons was 100% not in...)

2) The option to build the Habitation project only then appears in the build list.

Is this right?

What about with the Harvesters/Mines - will these instantly be available, once you've researched the right tech?

I'll update the Habitation project, based on your answers.

Something like that I guess, yes. Perhaps in the menu of ship commands we could have a 'Terraform Moons' button, and I'd presume they were all done together over a series of a few turns.



Correcto.

While your talking about terraforming could I just ask for a terrafoorm system and then colonize button all in one. its damn irritating having to go back every other turn just to ask it to terafform a planet.

uhhhhh, Mars isn't a barren planet, either in real life or BotF I. It also has the largest surface features in the solar system; both the largest and highest mountain (Olympus Mons makes both Everest and Mauna Loa look like ant hills) and the largest canyon (actually a rift valley the length of the US-Canada border), Vallis Marinaris. Really amazing, especially when you consider that Mars is about a quarter the size of Earth! And yes, the massive dust storms would make wind turbines very useful on this desert planet! Also, deserts don't have to be hot. Antarctica is one of the world's largest deserts, in terms of precipitation, (just like southern Alaska and British Columbia house impressive 'rainforests' of conifers)

In real life (and BotF I), a more accurate description of Mars is a desert planet. Barren implies nothing at all, like Mercury (very limited or nonexistent atmosphere) or better still, the Moon. If Mars is really barren, what exactly would a desert planet be?

Here are the planet types I remember, what makes the most sense (to me at least. If you disagree, please remind me I'm crazy)

Terran: Class M - Earth (Qo'noS, Cardassia, Romulus etc. - all the major empire homeworlds, except for the Founders, also majority of minor races except Sheliak, Tholians, Breen, etc.) - habitable zone (ecozone)

Desert: Class K? - Mars, Shelia(?). Special structure: Wind Turbines, Adv. Turbines (outer ecozone)

Arctic: Class P? - Pluto, Breen, several moons. Special Structure: Charge Collectors (cold zone)

Jungle: Class L - (no top-of-head examples, save Tarchannen III and Indrii VIII) (inner to middle ecozone)

Oceanic (Pelagic): Class O - Antede, Pacifica (likely). Special Structure: Aquasphere (ecozone)

Barren: Class D? - Mercury, Luna, etc. Colonization in pressure domes, special structure: Solar Array (any location)

Crystalline: Class C? - Tholia. (not zone?)

Demon: Class Y - the Demon Planet. Uber resources, danger to orbiting starships and facilities, uninhabitable (any location)

Demon wanna-be: Class N,X,orZ - Venus. (doesn't really fit as anything else. ) (hot zone)


Does this look about right? Do the suggestions make sense (or is this what is already done)? Any objections (if it is still an open subject)?

Could we use the complete Trek classification system? (mere Quasi-canon I know, but it is the best we have....)

Will the system generator be set up to create realistic solar systems? I mean by that will home systems all be canon (Cardassia wasn't in BotF II, neither were other empire's systems, but this was understandable given lack of info when game written), and will there be no stupidity like having an arctic planet closer to the sun than an M-class planet, etc.

Didn't someone also suggest that the VERY best place for wind turbines would be gas giants? It's true! If a series of them could be constructed in Jupiter's atmosphere, for example, they could harvest energy from the near-supersonic winds! (they could also power [or actually be] whatever deuterium extraction procedure you might need....) Besides, why would we need to WAIT to build wind turbines (which we can build right now) on planets with no atmospheres, like BotF I? I really think this list is more logical.

If a system like that was used, we could have a number of possibilities.

Please read them carefully, as they ARE all different!

1. Deuterium collectors AND turbines. (Both types) Turbines can still be built on the Barren/Desert Planets.

2. Deuterium collectors AND turbines. (Both types) Wind Turbines cannot be built on Barren/Desert worlds, so we need a new structure for Barren/Desert Planets.

3. Deuterium collectors AND Advanced turbines. (Advanced Turbines ONLY coz 'normal' Turbines wouldn't be able to survive the extreme pressure and winds of a Gas Giant) Turbines can still be built on the Barren/Desert Planets.

4. Deuterium collectors AND Advanced turbines. (Advanced Turbines ONLY coz 'normal' Turbines wouldn't be able to survive the extreme pressure and winds of a Gas Giant) Wind Turbines cannot be built on Barren/Desert worlds, so we need a new structure for Barren/Desert Planets.

5. Deuterium collectors AND Turbines. (These could be called 'Heavy Turbines' or something. 'Normal' Turbines simply wouldn't be able to survive the extreme pressure and winds of a Gas Giant - not even the Advanced turbines would be able to survive, and these would be a end stage-structure. They would be better than advanced Turbines) Turbines can still be built on the Barren/Desert Planets.

6. Deuterium collectors AND Turbines. (These could be called 'Heavy Turbines' or something. 'Normal' Turbines simply wouldn't be able to survive the extreme pressure and winds of a Gas Giant - not even the Advanced turbines would be able to survive, and these would be a end stage-structure. They would be better than advanced Turbines) Wind Turbines cannot be built on Barren/Desert worlds, so we need a new structure for Barren/Desert Planets.

7. A single (But very expensive) structure to collect Deuterium. The structure would have no energy cost, because the Turbines would power the collectors. Turbines can still be built on the Barren/Desert Planets.

8. A single (But very expensive) structure to collect Deuterium. The structure would have no energy cost, because the Turbines would power the collectors. Wind Turbines cannot be built on Barren/Desert worlds, so we need a new structure for Barren/Desert Planets.

9. A single (But very expensive) structure to collect both Deuterium AND generate Energy. Turbines can still be built on the Barren/Desert Planets.

10. A single (But very expensive) structure to collect both Deuterium AND generate Energy. Wind Turbines cannot be built on Barren/Desert worlds, so we need a new structure for Barren/Desert Planets.

11. Scrap the Collectors idea, have Turbines ONLY. Turbines can still be built on the Barren/Desert Planets.

12. Scrap the Collectors idea, have Turbines ONLY. Wind Turbines cannot be built on Barren/Desert worlds, so we need a new structure for Barren/Desert Planets.

13. Scrap the Wind Turbines idea. Have collectors ONLY. Turbines can still be built on the Barren/Desert Planets.

...

I'd personally go for number five, because this would promote development, and would be more 'realistic'. It also wouldn't upset the balance too much, because they are such a late-stage structure.

Hm... 5 is good. Or just 11 if we can't reach a consensus...
In any case, I say allow desert/barren planets to have turbines

So you want to get rid of the Collectors? Or did you actually mean number 13, CVN?

I'm confused...

What do you mean 13?
...

Right, isn't the idea to make a deuterium-turbine hybrid. Well, 11 says "Screw the collector, just the turbine". If that's the case, I DID mean. "11, if we can't reach a consensus"

I'm just not getting the idea then...

I think we're misunderstanding the misunderstaning here...

From your last post, I thought you meant if we don't get a concensus, we should just get rid of the Deuterium collectors, leaving only the Turbines as a viable structure...so how exactly would you get your big Deuterium bonuses?

If you went for number 13, at least we'd still have the collectors for Gas Giants, and Turbines for Barren/Desert Planets.

Having read through, I would opt for 5. 13 if necessary, but 5 seems better to me

5 actually. Nothing to add for now.