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OBJECT DATABASE - FEDS
http://bote2.square7.ch/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=550		 Page 3 of 3
Author:  Martocticvs [ 25 Jul 2005, 14:00 ]
Post subject:  Re: OBJECT DATABASE - FEDS
Will there be systems like that?
Author:  ftranschel [ 25 Jul 2005, 14:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: OBJECT DATABASE - FEDS
From all I've heard there will be a huge amount of systems, much of them without habitable planets.
Author:  CVN-65 [ 25 Jul 2005, 15:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: OBJECT DATABASE - FEDS
Be there such systems or not, I always found gas giant annoying. Just sitting there completly useless. With energy turbines (or whatever else sounds right) and deuterium collectors at least we'll have an acceptable compensation :)
Author:  ftranschel [ 25 Jul 2005, 16:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: OBJECT DATABASE - FEDS
CVN-65 wrote:
Be there such systems or not, I always found gas giant annoying. Just sitting there completly useless. With energy turbines (or whatever else sounds right) and deuterium collectors at least we'll have an acceptable compensation :)


That's the idea, indeed. At least the absence of gas giants would give myself a discomforting feeling of being in an alternate universe - it somehow just destroys the illusion 8)
Author:  Martocticvs [ 25 Jul 2005, 16:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: OBJECT DATABASE - FEDS
Well I certainly wouldn't want to see them go... its just the problem of how you can lay claim to a system comprised only of gas giants, without having to build outposts, etc...
Author:  jigalypuff [ 25 Jul 2005, 20:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: OBJECT DATABASE - FEDS
there won`t be any systems without at least one planet to colonize.
Author:  Rigel [ 25 Jul 2005, 21:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: OBJECT DATABASE - FEDS
How could we have had systems without habitable planets...

Thakns for clearing up the misconception, jig.

I pick door C, CVN.
Author:  cdrwolfe [ 29 Jul 2005, 17:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: OBJECT DATABASE - FEDS
Shame we can't have some systems which can't be colonised, would be nice to have an empty area of space which could act as a block to expansion, or checking of borders etc. adds some spice to the overall strategy of the game i think.
Author:  Matress_of_evil [ 14 Aug 2005, 10:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: OBJECT DATABASE - FEDS
Yeah, but I think people would be smacking their heads if they were ready to explore the Galaxy for a new system to colonise, and then realise that every system they find near their Homesystems is Planetless! 8O

I admit that such a scenario would be in the realms of near-impossibility, but could you imagine it? You wouldn't even bother playing the game, you'd just start over! 8O

Besides, there is empty space to create 'barriers' to expansion - you may find many large areas without starsystems, which you'll have to cross before you can find what hides on the other side. You never know, you'll find that all-important minor race that turns the tide of enemy spies or gives you the extra edge in research capability that you need to beat your enemies. :wink:

I don't think you need to have 'empty' systems because of this.
Author:  Martocticvs [ 14 Aug 2005, 13:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: OBJECT DATABASE - FEDS
Speaking of the minors (and this is totally unrelated, I know... ahem) will they behave like the empires? ie will they spy on you, or are there certain limitations they have?
Author:  Matress_of_evil [ 15 Aug 2005, 01:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: OBJECT DATABASE - FEDS
That's a good point actually...I don't think they did in BOTF, but it could be a good idea for BOTF2, even if it is only the expandable minors that can do this.
Author:  Martocticvs [ 15 Aug 2005, 10:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: OBJECT DATABASE - FEDS
Yeah... I always thought it a bit odd in the original game where you had races with intel bonuses, and they never actually seemed to practise this... if I was them, I would be using it to quietly nick tech off the big boys and then wallop my little neighbours :P
Author:  ZDarby [ 19 Aug 2005, 04:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: OBJECT DATABASE - FEDS
I vote for:
1) Solar collectors on Baren planets and not turbines... unless they're "solar wind" turbines.
2) Wind turbines on desert planets.
3) Deuterium collection on Gas Giants. Not turbines! In fact, no use for gas giant planets except deuterium... Their moons, if they have moons in this game, would be good for dome projects. But that's it.
4) "Minor" races shold be able to spy on other races... and sell that info to whom the like.

However, in the spirit of inspiring better arguements....
~~~
On Gas Giants.
1) Not failed stars. To say taht a gas giant is like a star except for less mass is like saying a puddle is like an ocean except less volume. Technically, both statements are somewhat accurate. However, the behavior of the larger is nothing like that of the smaller. They are not similar. And to say a gas giant is a failed star is, again, like saying a puddle is a failed ocean. It's a mental trap you should not allow yourselves to enter.

2) Cores. We don't know. It's all guesswork. The probability is we are not currently capable of predicting what the core of a gas giant will be like because it's so far away from our ability to do experiments in large quantities that whatever is there is likely to be far more complex than we can yet predict. We do know, however, that the core is under pressures impossible to imagine.

3) Pressure. The pressure in a giant's atmosphere goes from "unimaginable" at the core to the "zero" of the space that surrounds it... And *everywhere* in between. That human made objects can survive within the atmosphere of a gas giant is not questionable: it has been done. December 7, 1995, Galileo's Jupiter Probe entered the atmosphere of Jupiter and lasted close to an hour, plunging to a depth of some 130km and 22atm! As such, the only differce 22nd century technology will achieve is the depth and time a structure will be able to stand. Certainly that translates to a permanent floating structure in the upper levels of the atmosphere. If not, how are you going to extract deuterium from a giant?

4) Energy. Frankly I don't see any reason why we should spend time on devising new methods of getting energy from a gas giant: it's providing deuterium and the energy you'll get from the fusion of that is likely to be more than you'll get from anywhere else on the planet. Still...
a) Pressure Bottle. Lower from your platform a pressure bottle to 75% its burst strength, let gas in, seal the bottle at that depth, hoist it back up and let the pressurised gas out through a turbine.
b) Sea Anchor. Different layers are likely to have different wind speeds. A floating platform that dangles a sea anchor -- like a parachute made of carbon filiments -- into a lower layer would travel at a different speed than the layer it was floating in. Such a difference in speed would allow wind turbines to work.
c) Electropotential. Lightning is continuous on gas giants. That means electrical potentials between layers. An electric tether lowered to a diffent level should allow for these potentials to flow from one layer to the next, allowing you to collect some of the energy... Of course, you're inviting electrical storms to come your way. But, with large enough relays -- good old 20th century relays -- you should be able to avoid damage to sensitive duotronics from the giga-voltage.
d) Thermal Difference Engines. Lower a large tube to a layer of a different temperature. Pump gas from that layer up and use the heat difference to make energy.
e) Orbital Tethers. An electrically conductive wire orbiting a gas giant with a magnetic field -- and they're all likely to have an magnetic field -- can create an electrical curent.
f) The list goes on.
~~~~

Despite all this xyu, I *still* vote gas giants remain useful for one thing: the major source of deuterium... Even though I find the idea scientifically unsound... Blast it all! DEUTERIUM IS FOUND EVERYWHERE!!!!! Oh, well. I lost this fight long ago. :?
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