Won't the updated program require an editor so that data can be adjusted for new functions and features? Bashir

Yes

Yes, but that doesn't mean I have to release a new editor with the next update. It just means editing any game data will be a manual chore until I release the editor. I suppose I could just delay the update until I've written a new editor, if that's what you guys want...

No. We still have a lot of content to create and then add.

Ha! They'd lynch me. I was just thinking of all the times Matress said that without the editor you have to be so careful what you change in the data files.

Captain Bashir

This is true, but i've been aiming my comments at the lowest common denominator - those that would run a mile if they saw .xml coding. There isn't a problem in manually editing the files though, as long as you make frequent backups, regularly check the files still work (Ie test the game after you make edits), and are extremely careful while editing. I've learned the above three rules the hard way, and i've lost weeks worth of work because of it. Trust me, it's easier with the editor.

In all honesty though, I would really like to start inputting all of the empires, races, ships, and structures from scratch. It would be a hell of a lot of work, but the files would be fresh and I shouldn't end up needing people like .Iceman to point out any leftover workarounds, typos, missing/incorrectly named images, or mistakes. An editor would make this work a LOT faster and easier.

It's pretty easy to modify most of the files if you validate against the schemas. You can use a proper XML editor to get intellisense and error highlighting. Problem is that the schemas are a bit out of date, but I could fix that pretty easily.

Well, I agree that that would be the best option for the game, but not right now, we should do this for the final version.

I had no idea such things existed, Mike. Got any links to any? I've always just used Notepad to do any editing, and that's what i've recommended to others in the past.

...

I know we haven't really got the time for it mate. I'm just saying that tis would be the ideal. If the programs Mike mention do what he say they do, then I could get working on the files again with less worry about breaking the game (And trust me when I say that i've lost count the number of times that i've broken it). I would still recommend that we only do translations via editors though.

Ignoring the database, the biggest visible update that the game will likely receive is the images. Captain Bashir, Vjeko, Kenneth, and Zeleni have put in a herculean effort to getting the images we need and Supremacy is going to shine because of them. And that doesn't even include Slim's gorgeous artwork. People are going to love the update.

While I was modding EAW I used Notepad++ for xml editing and it was a life savior.


http://download.cnet.com/Notepad/3000-2 ... 27521.html



try it out.

I just use the XML editor in Visual Studio. You could download Microsoft Visual C# Express, which should have the same editor. EditiX looks like a pretty good editor; it looks like it supports form-based editing as well. There's an evaluation version; not sure how much it costs to buy.

Hmm, there's hardly anything scary about xml. On the contrary. If those people would want to edit the files, I don't see why the xml format would be a problem.



Seriously doubt that Starting over means inputting a lot of data by hand (and all that it entails), and I'm pretty sure the current files started that way.



Not sure about the faster part. Erm, or the easier part.


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I use Notepad++ BTW.

Many of the problems are the result of edits on top of edits, .Iceman. The problem is in the maintenance and development, not the creation. And when I said about people running a mile when they see xml, I mean the coding itself, not simply the text. Its like writing a post on the forums with all the bbcode - [b] [u] etc, without knowing what it all means. In that situation, it *will* look daunting to the newly xml-initiated.

I'm back to my flat tomorrow. I'll check out the programs then and get working on the updates. Nice to see you posting again too, .Iceman.

New thing I've noticed, Sikarians are set in the Alpha quadrant, they should be in the Delta quadrant.

There are bound to be some incorrections in the database, some "on purpose" sort of. The minor race distribution is one example. If you're going strictly canon, the Alpha Q will most likely have most of the minors, and the Delta Q the least. In a gameplay perspective, this is not "desirable" - IMO of course. The minor race distribution is not yet "balanced". I was going over it a few months ago, but with all the changes, and the lack of a new release, it's wasted work really.

Ok, but there are a lot of delta quadrant minors in the alpha quadrant because of some editor bugs when they were put in game.

Oh, I know that.



Or organization. I agree that a working editor would be of great help though.



You're pretty sure about your PoV, so I won't argue. Different experiences I guess. IME, the kids I teach actually *like* editing HTML *by hand* - no fancy editors. I've always done that too.
You'll always have to know what you're doing when editing files (namely when modding) - even with "easier" formats like plain text or excel. The xml tags (I guess what you're calling code) are usually actually helpful IMO.

I think I inadvertently started a really interesting discussion. This is good stuff to know. Ditto on the "good to see you posting .iceman" AND mstrobel if we don't say it enough, thanks a billion (trillion, gazillion) for all your work. CB

yes, yes, yes

My pleasure guys, and thanks to you for all your help.

I sure wish I could program like you, because I love programming... but I digress... You know, we're really gonna have something here when we're done. Binary Bashir

Keep at it and you'll get there.

I believe I will. Captain

Ok, i've downloaded and installed Notepad ++. It's a nice program.

...It doesn't help me though. I pressed ahead with making some of the fixes that we need as a test, but i'm still encountering problems. Supremacy simply freezes during game load whenever I manually mod TechObjectDatabase.xml.

How do you make Notepad ++ check whether there are any problems with the xml? Or can you do it Mike? Modded file below.

Well it doesn't warn you directly, but there are easy ways of noticing broken code.

press ALT-2 and you get this



as you can see your code is broken somewhere in the buildings.

yes before shipyards begin you need to add this line:

</Buildings>

Fixed:





now it looks like this:

Thanks mate, this will be my job for the day then. I've sorted the general issues and the Cardassians so far, and i've just started the Dominion fixes. Shouldn't take too long.

*Edit - Alt-2 is actually useful for finding stuff as well. Thanks for that, mate.

Alt-2 means that is collapses the second layer of code, you can use other numbers like alt-3 so you will have a list of everything in the third layer.
If you want we can split the work, you do major races, and can do the minor, just send me the xml files for editing, mine are "personalized"

There's no point mate; we'll end up with two different versions of the files that would then need to be merged. I should be able to do all the work myself today. I'm free to do it anyways.

*Edit - ok, now what have I done? Pressing Alt-2 isn't causing all of the ships to collapse like it should, but I can't see anything wrong with any of the code thingies on the ships. There's nothing hilighted in red like it does if I intentionally delete some of the code stuff.



The Dominion are now complete and I was halfway through the Feds when I noticed this problem...if it is a problem. Is it?

The problem is in DOM_BATTLE_CRUISER_I, as you can see when you press alt-2 <ships> end after it, that means that it has one closing tag extra or ther is one opening tag missing, I'll try to find it.


BTW can you go to MSN, I can be logged in all day so we can solve these problems faster.


EDIT: Solved

The ship was missing

<TechRequirements> tag





And you misunderstood me, I meant I could update the "HomeSystems.xml" "CustomPlanets.xml" and "Civilizations.xml" since I was a part of the team that did the research in that area.