Hey Zeleni. Did someone from the original BOTF write that? CB

No, afc member Gowron.

So how does he know those numbers and equations? Bashir

Guys from Afc managed to crack more or less all mechanics in the game.

I agree completely. However, we need to accept the possibility that the current plans for minors may simply not be workable. It's hard to know for sure until the AI is further along. The reality is that many of the problems that an AI must solve cannot be solved efficiently (i.e. in less than O(n²) time). The time to solve these problems grows exponentially with the number of inputs. In many cases, you have two or three levels of inputs. I appreciate that minor races are a cornerstone of this project, and I assure you that scaling them back would be a last resort. That said, even if we ended up removing the ability for expansion, minors in Supremacy would still have significantly more depth than they did in BotF.

Your word is enough for me. I'm sure you'll do all you can to implement "expansion" in the game and I don't care if there will be only 5, 10 or 15 expandable races as long as we can see some minor's moving. Minor's expansion it's not only a cornerstone of this project it's supremacy's advatage in comparison with other games. Lads from AFC would kill for such possibility in Old Botf ...


I'm not a programmer and i know Mike that you are "one-man-project" but there is one similar game to the Supremacy it is not set in space it's called Europa Universalis III. This game is set in period 1380-1820 and player can play with any coutry that existed in that period. There is more then 200 countries from France, Savoy, Pfalz in Europe to the countries like Zanzibar, Ajteh, Baluchistan for which you never heard even if you are excellent in the history. My point is, all this 200 countries simultaneously fight, expand in numerous provinces, preform colonization, spying, they sign treaties, each has it's own leaders, heirs, research progress... also you can in each province build numerous buildings and this is only 5% of the game. You have advisors, different policy's... triggered random events, different religions, different nations and I would say few thousands inputs. This game is of course is labeled as best strategy ever. I want for Supremacy to be best space strategy ever. I think Mike you should try this game just for inspiration and closer look on game's tables. I'm sure you will find way to make alive Botf 2 masterplan

Funny you should mention EU3--I was just reading an article/interview about the AI in that game earlier in the week. I'd already made a mental note to check it out.

Oh if it was only a free open source game where you can look at the source code. Or is it? Bashir Edit: just checked, that would be a no.

It's easy to make mistakes.
I have a problem with 50 pop (whether it's million or otherwise) in a colony ship when (and it's here that you want to pay attention) your starting pop is 80~100. AND those 50 pop being *free*.
I'm sure you'll understand my point, so I won't have to get into further details.

Also, apples and oranges. You may think you've made a point, but you're wrong

Let me stress the important parts for you:

[/quote]

Who said colony ship pop is perfect? One thing is obvious, it's more perfect then having brain dead minors in galaxy which is your suggestion. I don't care which point is right or wrong i just want to bring to your attention how your arguments can be meali mouthed. So don't get mad on each word and chill out.

cheers

Mike will figure it out.

Mad?! Ooookkkk....
Nope, nobody said colony ship pop is perfect. It doesn't have to be. But AFAIK, I can comment on it, and propose alternatives, right? Just because it clashes with your view of what the game should be, I don't think I should refrain from posting. Or should I? I hope it's not what you're trying to say.
And even though you don't care who's wrong or right, distorting my posts isn't a good way to bring anything to my attention, it just makes it look like you're trying to make me overreact, which is not going to happen - so please take it easy. If the discussion doesn't interest you, please refrain from replying _to me_ in particular. Just ignore me.

As for brain dead minors, let's let _Mike_ decide, shall we? After all, all final decisions are his. Whatever you or me post in these forums. So again, please take it easy.

---

Now, back to the topic.

Will minors also have Morale, like the empires?
Will their colonies (expanding minors) be able to revolt too?

When a minor leaves an empire, what happens to its (former) fleets?
What if the fleets are half way across the empire, now outside range for the minor?

What if the system(s) that revolts has no farms? One could, on purpose, scrap all farms in a system that is about to revolt, to lower pop and subsequently defense, and thus cripple the revolting system. The system will have no fleets I guess, so it shouldn't be hard to take back. Even leaving a Transport in orbit (built at the system itself), and waiting for the rebellion to happen.

What happens in terms of resources? Both with minors that break away and systems that revolt. Since the game has global pools for resources, and food and credits, when a system leaves the empire will it take some resources with it? How many?
Will minors that join an empire add their current credits and food and resources to the empire's pool? When they leave, will they take the same amount? A portion of what the system produce while under the empire's rule?

Some fleets might get stranded too, with the lost system. Or create a range "hole" in the middle of your empire.
Not really sure which consequences there might be with the changes to the Area of Influence.

While at it, if minors can build colony ships when part of an empire, is the colonized system considered Native or Non-Native? If Non-Native, then if the minor leaves the empire, do these systems also leave with the rest?

All systems will have morale. It's a property of the colony colonies, not the controlling civilization.

Colonies generally cannot overthrow their government --at best, they could disrupt production. Subjugated systems will be able to overthrow the occupying government.

I would tend to go with the simplest answer, which is that those fleets would be forfeited.

In going with the above answer, this would not be an issue.

Yeah, you could do this, but the population would be just as pissed at you afterwards (if not more so), so you'd have even more work ahead of you in trying to make that system productive again.

None.

I would say the simplest option here would be to simply switch from the minor race's pools to the empire pools, leaving the former untouched. If the minor leaves the empire, they would get their original pools back.

Yep, another reason why 'range' is flexible. It's up to the player to get them back safely.

A minor race's colonies become part of the empire when they join, and for simplicity's sake, all colony ships built anywhere in an empire are populated with that empire's primary race. The initial population doesn't come from the colony ship per se--it's part of that whole "free" initial population issue that it's best just to overlook .

I meant if minors' colonies can also break away from the minor's set of systems, _if_ rebellions can happen to empires.







So rebelling is a lowsy option for both "sides".



Yep.