The models in BOTF were in the 250 polygon range. We have set the limit for BOTF2 at 5,000 for ships and stations at 25,000. What you see on TV and in Films is an order of magnitude larger than that now. We can not import the high end models and the really simple ones look very boxy up close.

The reference to low poly is just relative. Our models are low poly next to the model of the Narada in Star Trek and high poly next to the original BOTF.

With even 10 ships though that extra detail will start to fade out with the scale.

"Low poly" depends on your definition of what "low" is. But generally we want the models themselves to be rough because we can make them pretty through the textures at a lower processing cost than through making the models themselves pretty. And lower processing costs means you can have more ships in combat at any one time. So the crappier the ships, the more epic the combat will seem.

Any model can be made to look fantastic if it gets decent enough textures, no matter how crappy the model itself is. And with the way things are moving on technologically, the sheer amount of texture types that can potentially be added to a model to make it look better is increasing exponentially. You just have to read the latest update from the Excalibur team to see what I mean.

Come to think of it, if you want to test a game where you can see the differences i'm talking about, have a look at the Aftermath mod for Legacy. (Assuming you have Legacy) If you've played the original game, you'll know that Legacy is normally only capable of having something like 8 ships per map at one time. But the Aftermath mod improves the graphics through better textures and optimised models and programming, (The Aftermath mod is practically a new game in its own right as much of the programming has been rewritten and optimised) but the optimisations were designed to reduce the hardware requirements to run the game - so even though the game looks better, you get higher framerates to boot. Even better is the fact that the reduced demands allows for more ships to be put on each map. In fact, there are maps in the game that have 30, 40, even 50 plus ships. So if the models and programming are done right, it really does make that big a difference.

The restrictions that we've put on the model poly limits are to allow for big battles though. People WANT big battles, because BOTF was capable of doing them. Ok, if the ships are in any real numbers it takes some time to process the battles, and I admit to having a few battles where I had to wait 45 minutes for the turns to process, but if we're going to replicate this ability, the restrictions will make life easier for players. So having low poly models isn't a problem. It is actually a good thing in the long run.

...And if people really did want higher poly models, we could always release better models as an update later on.

Well I know that about texturing, I made an unreleased mod for fed ships + romulan warbird in star trek armada where I gave them better textures, and they lood 10 times better, if anyone wants the mod just say so, I will upload it here.


some pics:

Let me take a look at the Steamrunner model. We have some nice models for the others but not the Steamrunner. Thanks.

Were you talking to me?

Yes, I would like to take a look at the Steamrunner model.
You are doing such good work on the 2D images I hate to ask
you to spend time on models. Still we have a some work that needs
doing.

Well the models are the property of Activision, I only made the textures for ingame models, if I understand you want to see the ingame model retextured by me?

And give me any work you need done.

Sorry, I did not understood. We have an original model for each of those ships with permission to us them. A re-texture of a model we do not have rights to is not something we can use. There are other models that do need work. If you are still working on 2D images that is good. You will see more of the 2D art in game sooner than you will see any 3D models.

Just getting back from a little trip.

Razors_Edge and Kenneth_of_Borg: Awww thanks. There is alot of truth to what you said R_E (and K_O_B) but it's not that bad. Everyone means well. You did get me thinking about the wisdom of getting something finished and then moving on to other projects. There are other images I would like to address. Over the weekend I developed one LAST idea on the computer image and something preliminary to improve weapons. I mistakenly spend a lot of time trying to work from the original images because I kept getting feedback that everyone really liked the original images and it was going to be a challenge to replace them. Sometime next week I'll post the results for everyone. There is also one idea I had that involves teaming with Zeleni for an experiement. Can't wait to see if it looks good and then if you all like it. Anyway, appreciated the post Razor and the Ditto Kenneth.

Dafedz: Yes I really like the Java class design for a transport. I THOUGHT you were the Red Admiral. I stand at this moment and salute you and your web site and your work. I emailed you once about it. I think you have one other alias as well. Something with "Red" in it. Anyway it is a shame to stop modeling like that.

vjeko1701: I'm going to have to see more of this work. Nice!

CB

I am ready to do ship textures if you need them, I am working on 2d art but I believe that the random event images are complete (except for few but I have no idea how to represent it) And I don't know what structure images we still need since Zeleni has a lot of them on his PC that he hasn't yet showed.

...Plus Dafedz has just come up with a couple of hundred new buildings in the last month or two that will all need images hehe. It's all in his Database.

Luckily Zeleni had some spare images to cover the new structures, and I compiled a few lists for Zeleni at the time so he had a basis to work from.

@vjeko1701

The mesh for Colonyship I Conestoga Class is coming along.
Once I have a UV map I could turn the texturing over to you.

In the mean time there is the Klingon Fleetyard and in the minor
races the Hazari Cruiser that need an image texture. I have not
done a UV map for those yet. If you can do UV mapping then
they are ready to go.

Well I don't want to dissapoint you, but I can only retexture, I don't know how to texture a ship without texture, as you can see I know my way around Photoshop and when I have a bad texture I can retexture it to look good but I don't have much experience in modeling or texturing an untextured ship.

Again sorry to dissapoint you.

But if someone can give me a quick tutorial, I'm a fast learner.

If the model has UV mapping built for it but is not textured it means all the surfaces of the 3D model have been assigned to a area on a 2D blank image. All you need to do it start painting in the detail and it shows up on the ship.

I will finish up the Conestoga class with a UV map and then we can talk some more if you are still interested. If, in the mean time, you want to look at a tool that can do UV mapping I can point the way. There are online tutorials.

Thanks! much appreciated. Unfortunately I don't have the time to model anymore - not to any great degree, which is a shame. My last project (about 3 years ago) got about half way through a quite awesome and infinitely detailed (and accurate) Nebula class. Maybe one day I'll get round to finishing it.

I'm the same as you, only with images in general, not texturing; I haven't got a clue where to begin when it comes to making images. But give me a screenshot or an image that I can edit, and you've probably seen all over the forums the sorts of things that I can do with them. In M$ Paint. I didn't even make the little guy in my avatar - Jigalypuff made him when he randomly started editing my avatar without my permission a few years ago lol. I'm the one that animated him though. Ooh that reminds me, i've got to dig out his little christmas hat.

*Edit - there it is, now the forums are starting to feel christmassy. Now all we need is to update the emoticons and give the Klingon one a christmas hat.

Dafedz: I could always start a petition for the Nebula Class.

MOE: The Christmas Hat is just great! What is it that happens that the Supremacy game has a tree? Is that built into the program to happen before Christmas, or do you just go out and change the download version to have the opening screen with the tree?

CB

The Supremacy christmas logo was part of a fun update that Mike released last christmas. Since it was part of an update though, the christmas tree didn't officially get replaced until the May 2009 update, since there were no updates between christmas and May - so people still had the christmas tree right up until the summer holidays. I don't know if Mike intends to do the same thing again or not, but he did tell me that the next update is "a long way off" so it unfortunately doesn't sound like he does.

It's easy enough to replace the logo with anything you want yourself though, although you'll have to contend with the auto-updater trying to overwrite your replacement if you do. I'd recommend just switiching off the auto-updater in the main menu options screen for the time being. We'll announce when an update is released so you'll be able to switch it back on at that time anyways. Come to think of it, i'm not sure if I still have the Christmas tree logo myself. I'll have to have a look on my hard drive. I'm in work at the mo so i'll have to do it later. I'll post it up here for people to install themselves if I find it.

Oh, and just so you know, I actually stole the christmas hat from Skeeter's christmas avatar lol. He's got one of Worf wearing a christmas hat. Like I said above in my previous psot, I can easily edit stuff, I just haven't got a clue how to make something from scratch. Hmm...I haven't got an Easter Romulan yet...

I'm interested in texuring Conestoga after you finished with UV, as soon as you do send me the neccesary files, BTW what programs will I need and which one for what(viewing, etc..)


but hold on a little with the conestoga, I've asked Doug if he has any more pics of it, from more angles, I hope he will respond soon.

This is a pic I have found:


And Doug said that he has a GC model of it, while we can't use because of the High poly nature of it, it will help us build our own model.

That is the side view I am using to build the 3D mesh over. I will get back to you about the programs to use. Tell Doug thanks for the nice ship idea. We should credit him for the concept. Would you ask him how he would like his name listed in the credits?

Ok have taken into account suggestions.

i like all of those can you implement them for ... say yesterday?

Well, we need to credit Doug and if we can put a link to his blog, he said that he would appreciate that, because a lot of materials came from there. When he sends me a CG model of Conestoga or pictures from all angles, I'm not sure which on will it be, of it I will post them here.
BTW should we open a new thread to talk about conestoga and all that because we are way offtopic in this thread

Captain Bashir, Wow, the best ones so far. I believe that we have our images.

We can talk models here.

Post the link he wants and how he wants his name in the credit file in that thread.

It is easier to build a lower poly model from the ground up than try and suck the poly out of a higher poly. We can not use his 3D mesh but the texture images will be most welcome.

viceadmirallv: A big thanks. Ultimately any implementing is up to Matress or possibly Mike and a few others. You can right click, copy the images and then move them into the Resources\images\research\Fields folder of your game folder. The game just loads whatever it finds there as long as it has the right name. But you probably knew that.

Kenneth:: Also a big thanks.

Kenneth and vjeko I love that Conestoga colony ship. I know you have probably seen the Red Admiral's 3D drawings of it.

Captain B

I was thinking the same thing, but if he sends a model of it, wouldn't it be easier to work on your own model while having this one loaded in another window thus being able look at it from any angle you need? But I must remind you that even if it was easier to lower the poly count on the original model we still coudn't do it, I've said that we will only use it a a preview to build our own model, and about the texture, it will be great to have it but I will have to make my own with the help of his but without any elements taken from it.

@ Captain Bashir

It all looks good. I will let MOE file the images. He knows how and where he want them for loading into a future game update.

The Captain knows where to put the images, Kenneth. Afterall, he did upload the previous versions to the right place himself 10 days ago.

Anyways, this incarnation of the images have been uploaded. I've put them through PNGGauntlet for you as well, Captain, and saved 26.28kb (About 6% of total filesize) from doing so. They're Here if anyone wants to see them. As he said, just overwrite the existing images in your Supremacy/Resources/Images/Research/Fields folder with these files. You'll have to contend with the auto-updater trying to overwrite them with the originals though so I recommend you turn the auto-updater off in your game options -> updater tab.