Re: Tielee -- I had a long reply but I'll try to condense it since won't make a real difference. Your entire rant sounds as if it straight from the pages of the left wing MoveOn.org. Conspiracy theory at it's finest. The website you cite is hardly the best source. It reminds me of when Clinton was in office and fringe right wing sites would come up with the wildest anti-Clinton comments.

Of course, there is one huge flaw in your entre post. If you can't trust the the major media sources, which are all independent, well funded, well staffed, with every incentive to bring to light the most controversial news when it can be support with facts (and sometimes without facts) ... what makes you believe you can trust some two bit website which can post anything they want without having to support or defend their statements? The fact that there hasn't been widespread outcries of corruption about the 2004 election shows that no one else is paying attention to this website.

The idea that the Whitehouse could corral the media to such an extent to quash the "supposed" corruption you propose is laughable. There will always be fringe media twist the truth just enough to suite their own purpose. You should do more research using more reliable sources that the website you cite or websites like it.

northtexan, its true, here in the uk we heard of things that bush does that you dont... the media in the us seems to b a joke...

when iraq happened, any1 who was against it in the us was acalled unpatriotic and lost their jobs in the media, politics or army. Soldiers who knew it was wrong were being put in jail for not going.... the us needs to have complete change. they are basically i ideology now.... ferengi...

Funny that a man who doesn't appear to be believing in democracy uses force and agression to force that concept unto another country. I believe every single word Tielee said about him. I am biased against mister Bush, but most thing sound very true and plausible. Besides, it is no secret that Al Gore won the elections instead of Bush.

Anyway, I do very much like to continue on the discsussion between jig and ftranshel. I myself live in The Netherlands. Globally considered to be the most tolerant country in the world. This very moment, our minister of Justice, Mister Donner, is extremely critised (he will probably loose his ambt) because it became known that a convicted murderer and rapist of a 10 year old girl was not guilty at all. The man spent 4 years in prison being innocent (was sentenced to 18 year). It appeared that DNA evidence which proved his innocence was hidden by the ministery of justice during the course of the trial. It was considered trivial information.
Undoubtedly a crime like this would result in the death sentence in the US (note that 18 years of imprissonment is quite close to our maximum penalty: 20 years is the max. after which comes lifesentence which is rarely used). Now, the big problem with the Death Sentence is that it is irreversible. Granted, the life of this man is already ruined after being sent to prison while innocent, his wife left him, he never saw his kids again and he is hard pressed to find any work again, but at least the guy is still alive! If he is already dead, correcting such a mistake will prove to be quite difficult.

That said, I do not know where you got the information that murders and killings have rocketted in Europe, jig, but that is the most stupiest thing I have ever heard. You know, guns are illegal in Europe. In the Netherlands, policemen and millitary officers or soldiers are not even allowed to take their guns with them when they are off duty or to store them at home. Last time I checked, you can buy guns in the US as easily as buying a sandwich. How about you guys start working on that first. People do *not* need to have a gun in their homes. If you are feeling unsafe or have properties that need guarding, you hire a security officer or install advanced alarms, or whatever.
You don't stop them by penalising it. That never worked! On the contrary, it makes it even more exciting. You prevent it by convincing them that it is wrong. When owning a weapon is legal, using it becomes a lot easier and is generally considered 'normal' by some people.

Everybody has certain rights. Humans have rights. Killers and criminals are still humans and thus have still rights. The death sentence is against the rights of human beings and therefore should be abolished in every country in the world.
But of course, as we all know from the horrors of Guantanamo Bay, the US don't believe that much in human rights.