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Future Race Additions/Updates http://bote2.square7.ch/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1051	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Ritter [ 30 Mar 2006, 22:35 ]
Post subject:	Future Race Additions/Updates
As it says in the title, this is about FUTURE updates, expansions, whatever once the game has finished, but it's a thought which has been occurring to me more and more often. For the sake of gameplay--NOT official Star Trek stuff since this suggestion flies right in the face of that--should unofficial races or races from entirely separate genres be considered? The reason I mention this is because, after looking over the various minor race listings and such, the Gamma and Delta Quadrants seem virtually barren compared to the Alpha and Beta Quadrants. No doubt this comes from the simple fact that the latter pair has had 4 show series expanding them whereas the others have only had at most one. In the case of the Gamma Quadrant, it was actually more the first couple of seasons of DS9 which actually explored what it contained. As a result, you have an entire quadrant lacking any major power (Delta) and the Dominion left virtually unopposed to take control of the entire Gamma Quadrant. While I can't wait to play as the Dominion, the idea of waiting a few hundred turns before discovering any kind of serious threat other than possibly a random event sounds a bit dull. It would be more satisfying to have some power to overcome, even if it isn't an official Star Trek race, then discover the wormhole to the Alpha Quadrant. Plus, by definition the game already has to include unofficial items--how many official types of Romulan ships are there?--since the various shows and movies simply haven't developed numerous areas, so making up some races for the sake of gameply doesn't seem that bad to me. As far as where to get these extra races, there are plenty of resources to draw upon. From various videogames we could pull the Garidians, Chodak, Lyrans, Hydrans, The Interstellar Concordium, Mirak, Hurk, and I'm sure others who would be happy to relocate to either of the emptier quadrants. Numerous fan sites have created all kinds of races with extensive descriptions, many of whom I'm certain would be happy to give permission to have their creation included. With the creative minds already on this site, we could probably create new species for inclusion--I know I can think of three just off the top of my head. Even if those aren't enough, we could potentially include races from other genres, such as Farscape. My reasons for bringing this up now are two-fold: 1) I don't want to forget what I've been thinking about and 2) it might require leaving an option in the design to "Include Unofficial Races" on both "official" and "unofficial" game maps. With so much work already to be done, I wouldn't think it truly worth trying to incorporate now, but I do think that leaving the window open might be beneficial. Of course, if nobody wants unofficial races ever, then it's not worth considering. As I said, this is just an idea for improving gameplay once game production has finished, and it might not seem necessary once the actual game is available and tried, but I figured I'd throw the idea out for discussion.

Author:	Matress_of_evil [ 31 Mar 2006, 10:59 ]
Post subject:	Re: Future Race Additions/Updates
Whilst I understand what you are saying, it isn't entirely correct. The Delta Quadrant will have the Borg, Kazon, Vidiians and all the other evils that Voyager went up against, and it would be canon to not have another power other than the Dominion in the Gamma Quadrant. The Dominion was a vast interstellar Empire, with huge amounts of resources and a massive fleet of warships. If there were other major powers in the Quadrant, the Dominion wouldn't have been able to expand to such vast proportions so easily, and they wouldn't have had enough resources to consider an invasion of the Alpha Quadrant. By not having any major Empires to fight against, you can concentrate on instead building up the power of your defenses and Fleets, so that by the time you do eventually meet another power, you will be just like the "real" Dominion. That is when the sparks will fly. Ok, it will mean a boring start to the game, but the other powers will be constantly batling against each other, and will be unable to to build large military forces for long periods of time. They will fighting all the time, and their forces will be constantly thinned out. Only the victor will have a chance of taking on the Dominion, and the only advantage you'll have will be the battle experience of your fleets. You could also try targeting their Ketracel production facilities... ... As for having other races, the game itself will be canon, that is, there won't be any races that haven't been seen in the various series. That said, it will be up to the modders to make other races, and if people want them in their game, then they will be able to download these mods themselves. The site will host all the mods that people make, so you'll be able to pick-and-choose which ones you want. Of course you'll have to ensure that you have the exact same files as your opponents if you decide to go multiplayer though...

Author:	zahadoom [ 31 Mar 2006, 14:23 ]
Post subject:	Re: Future Race Additions/Updates
I agree with matress, and there were supposed to be incindent in wish ships were lost in other quadrants, so this could probly even happen to a minor race(rare though) so you will be able to have contact with them and maybe make treaties... thus getting an early foothold. Its a huge opportunity, besides there are always random events and i just love to colonize everything in sight:) There will also be tons of anomolies to explore, and places to chart:) So it will keep you very busy.

Author:	Ritter [ 31 Mar 2006, 18:42 ]
Post subject:	Re: Future Race Additions/Updates
Remember, I said I was looking at GAMEPLAY, not being official. While the Dominion being completely unchallenged might be true to official Star Trek stuff (who knows whether they had enemies in their founding but overcame them sometime over the last several thousand years of their existence), it makes for some potentially dull sounding play. I know some people like the idea of hoarding, building to excess, charting the wonders of the galaxy, and topping it off by sending your ridiculously large fleet through the wormhole onto a battle-ravaged Alpha Quadrant, but I know that I'd rather face at least one rival which could pose some kind of threat. Sitting around mapping stars and picking on a handful of minor races just doesn't sound that interesting to me. This difference of opinion is why I mentioned the option of selecting either official or unofficial races. If you don't want these additions, then don't play with them, but for others like me who care less about official stuff there's the option available. Essentially, I figure that if any of this does come around it will be from people other than the development team, both because they're clearly busy and their focus is remaining true to the genre. That's why I started this thread, to see if there are any others who have similar thoughts. The only thing I figure the development team might need to do is include that little window of options in the map selection or something.

Author:	UnDated [ 31 Mar 2006, 21:50 ]
Post subject:	Re: Future Race Additions/Updates
to b honest i dont remember a quater of the minor races in the list already, but i reckon theres already enough to do without fussing to much, maybe a offical update to the game with all the additional stuff, but id rather just have a game to play now!

Author:	raiden_rse [ 31 Mar 2006, 22:22 ]
Post subject:	Re: Future Race Additions/Updates
just simply have an option were all major and minors starting points are randomly generated, meaning you could start anywere like the original botf

Author:	UnDated [ 31 Mar 2006, 22:29 ]
Post subject:	Re: Future Race Additions/Updates
As far as i know, (MOE is the man for this info), there wil be a pre made map made up with all the canon in it, but the standard will be random, as there is no fun playing exactly the same map over and over (unless u keep lossing!)

Author:	zahadoom [ 01 Apr 2006, 08:23 ]
Post subject:	Re: Future Race Additions/Updates
Anyway if i remember correctly we will have the option of a canon or a non canon map. So problem solved

Author:	Matress_of_evil [ 01 Apr 2006, 10:51 ]
Post subject:	Re: Future Race Additions/Updates
As far as I know, you will have options to choose when you select a random map - you could have it as completely random, or you could have it so it is still partly canon - as in all Alpha Quad races will be found in the Alpha Quad, all Beta Quad races will be found in the Beta Quad, and so on. I don't know if this is definite, but there will certainly be more options when you select the map type etc. Don't worry, Jig will sort all this out when the times comes to it. He's busy with the AI at the moment...

Author:	cdrwolfe [ 01 Apr 2006, 19:20 ]
Post subject:	Re: Future Race Additions/Updates
Jigs doing the AI, oh do tell more be interesting to know how he is implementing it.

Author:	Matress_of_evil [ 01 Apr 2006, 20:54 ]
Post subject:	Re: Future Race Additions/Updates
He literally only just started programming it, so there's nothing to tell at all. I'm sure he'll provide an update once he's ready. In his own words though: "The AI will be done when it manages to whip my ass". So i'm sure it'll be a good AI.

Author:	Leafan [ 26 May 2006, 13:00 ]
Post subject:	Re: Future Race Additions/Updates
OK I don't know the name of the Race or Episode, all I have is a vague discription.... They were in TNG and abducted the crew for experimentation. They were from another dimension or something and they made a clicking sound. They amputated Rikers arm and put it back again! Anyway, they should be in this game I reckon, as a random event maybe. Can someone clarify which race I'm talking about and what episode?? Leafan.

Author:	Matress_of_evil [ 26 May 2006, 14:00 ]
Post subject:	Re: Future Race Additions/Updates
Umm...don't know about that one, although I do remember the episode... You'll have to check yourself, Leafan. We've got 144 races that will definitely be in the game though, plus about 10 other races that we're not sure about. I'm sure they're in there already. The Minor Races Database *Edit - I just checked - the name of the aliens isn't mentioned in StarTrek.com.

Author:	dafedz [ 26 May 2006, 16:29 ]
Post subject:	Re: Future Race Additions/Updates
That race in Trekdom were simply known as the 'Solanagen-based aliens'. (TNG-Schisms). The had no official name, or homeworld. So they won't be a minor race as such, and they can offer nothing in the way of the game's resources. I can't see what value they'd have as a random event either I'm afraid, other than a throw-away comment on the summary screen for a number of missing crewmen. Going back to Ritter's point, there are three 'Key Races' in the Gamma Quadrant that can expand and offer some opposition. The most military and advanced will be the T'Rogorans. I understand the deficiency of stronger (and more numerous) Gamma races, and wish this could be rebalanced. I can't see that happening with any official release though, but it could be an interesting mission for the modders. As far as map selections goes, we'll see how things pan out. Right now the proposed options are: Canon Map Semi-Canon Map Non-Canon Map A Canon map will be default. All Home systems will have the same preset position each time, and all the races as specified by their quadrant location in the Races databases will be placed in approximate locations in a canon pattern, which is predetermined. A Semi Canon Map means that all minor races, as well as Major home systems, will be in random locations but still in their native quadrants. A Non-Canon Map will be completely scrambled for minor races, but major empire home system will still be in their native quadrants. For a completely random map, 'Quadrants' must be turned off, and all races and empires can appear anywhere.

Author:	zahadoom [ 28 May 2006, 22:08 ]
Post subject:	Re: Future Race Additions/Updates
sounds fair enough

Author:	Captain_Billy_Bacon [ 29 May 2006, 11:49 ]
Post subject:	Re: Future Race Additions/Updates
Right question If dom start if delta and they meet the borg and a war starts will the borg ships be as strong as they were in the orignal BOTF coz if they are i feel sorry for the DOM coz they gonna have the biggest problem

Author:	zahadoom [ 01 Jun 2006, 13:04 ]
Post subject:	Re: Future Race Additions/Updates
but the borg ship strength will be measure against how many turns have gone by. Plus the dominion has Zero competition in that quadrat so it will ballence out:)

Author:	Matress_of_evil [ 01 Jun 2006, 16:29 ]
Post subject:	Re: Future Race Additions/Updates
Yeah, it's like Zahadoom said, Billy. The Borg will start off as a random event. During a game, they may appear on turn two, they may never appear. They may even appear several times! It. Is. Random. When the Borg first appear, they will send a Sphere. If you repel the Sphere, the Borg will send a Cube several turns later. If you repel the Cube, the Borg will send a Tactical Cube, and so on. If you lose to the Borg, they wil assimilate the closest system. From there on, the system will be Borg space, and the Borg will act as though they were an Empire. They will build ships and stations in the system. The ships will go out and attempt to assimilate nearby systems, and the process starts all over again. The only way to defeat the Borg will be to completely eradicate them from the Galaxy - ships, stations, and systems. ... The Dominion will be the fastest ship producers in the game. They will also be the slowest at training, and there will be very few races within their vicinity (Canon map) - either Minor or major. They will have little to oppose their expansion until they encounter the Alpha Quadrant powers or the Borg. If you decide to play as the Dominion, you will have to learn to balance your Fleets, because whilst they have the most powerful ships and will have the largest Fleets, they will have weak, untested crews.

Author:	Ashur [ 01 Jun 2006, 19:29 ]
Post subject:	Re: Future Race Additions/Updates
will it be possible to create random maps with randomly placed homesystems of the major races?

Author:	Matress_of_evil [ 01 Jun 2006, 20:14 ]
Post subject:	Re: Future Race Additions/Updates
Yes, that will be the completely random map. The game will have 4 different map types - Canon, Semi-Canon, Random, Completely Random. Canon Does exactly what it says on the tin. Semi-Canon Random Minor race locations, (Within SAME Qudrant, eg. no Kazon in Alpha Quad) Empire Homesystems are still in Canon locations. Random All races and Empires are in random locations, but will still be in their correct Quadrants. Completely Random Does exactly what it says on the tin.

Author:	Ashur [ 01 Jun 2006, 22:34 ]
Post subject:	Re: Future Race Additions/Updates
i'll never play lesser than completely random

Author:	Lotte [ 07 Jun 2006, 20:59 ]
Post subject:	Re: Future Race Additions/Updates
Well one idea in my head is if were on about updates, expansions why not add in some races (estabilished but from another series) The shadows from Babylon 5 (they should give the dominion a challenge) or the star wars empire, hell it would be the ideal opportunity to bring in a ST V SW scenario.

Author:	ZDarby [ 07 Jun 2006, 22:13 ]
Post subject:	Re: Future Race Additions/Updates
Cannon Semi-Cannon Semi-Random Random Will it be possible to mod in new, non-cannon species and assign a home planet on the Cannon map? If so, than all subjects on this thread have been solved... It's just up to the modders. Which means this thread can be refocused onto what species should be added and where... which is where I think ritter was headed in the first place.

Author:	Ritter [ 18 Jun 2006, 21:51 ]
Post subject:	Re: Future Race Additions/Updates
Yes, putting new, unofficial races into the game in whatever map form desired was my original idea. I thought this might help to expand the life/depth of the game by allowing people to customize it a bit more to their satisfaction, but it would almost certainly have to be done independently by people aside from the programmers. I know it might be fun to have the Federation fight the fleets of Anubis, or maybe have the Dominion tackle the Asgard or Scarens. That would obviously go outside of the Star Trek world, but could be an interesting future addition to the game's overall playability. It seems like most of the people here have an interest in sci-fi universes aside from just Star Trek, so why not allow for the possibility to include some of these things in future developments? I only bring it up now because I don't know if the programmers would need to leave a little window open for new things to be installed at some point in time.

Author:	Matress_of_evil [ 18 Jun 2006, 22:38 ]
Post subject:	Re: Future Race Additions/Updates
Hmm...how did I miss your post ZDarby? To be honest, i've never personally thought about that, but I assume that you will be able to. The game is gonna be moddable, so I imagine that Jig and MStrobel will implement a way for you to manually set this whenever you make a mod for their respective games. It's a good point anyway. I'll make sure I mention it to them for you. ... Just imagine a Dominion-Scaren Alliance... 8O

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