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Star Trek Fan Games :: View topic - Possable problems with the Evacutation Stage.
Star Trek Fan Games
http://bote2.square7.ch/forum/

Possable problems with the Evacutation Stage.
http://bote2.square7.ch/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1282
Page 1 of 2

Author:  Winterhawk [ 23 Sep 2006, 09:22 ]
Post subject:  Possable problems with the Evacutation Stage.


Author:  Matress_of_evil [ 23 Sep 2006, 11:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: Re; BOTFII Masterplan

Once a minor race joins you, will not be able to build their ship(s), mostly because the minor race ships are weaker than those of the Empires. The Vulcans will have the best minor race ships, but will only be 90-95% of the strength of an Empire ship of equal tech.

There is another thing about the minor race ships that i can't remember what we decided on though.

We discussed once about the Minor races continuing to build ships even after they had joined you - a personal fleet as it were for their own defence.

The speed at which they would build ships would be dependant on the difference in your tech levels - the greater the difference, the faster they would build. If your tech level was higher though, they would only build ships slowly - if at all.

You would have no control over these ships, as they would belong to the minor race - but you won't have to pay maintenance costs for them either, and defence of their homesystem would be easier, in the early game, at least.

...

As for evacuation, i'm not sure about that. Evacuation means all the people cram into the nearest ships with whatever technology they can grab. (I think all ships in the game will have at least some evacuation potential, but Fed ships, Transports, and Hospital ships will be the best for doing this)

Once evacuated, you will then have to find the evacuees a place to live. The new colony will start of with technology that the people scavenged from their original home - which could range from anything from Farms to Scanners - and will be totally random in what and how much is saved.

Author:  Winterhawk [ 24 Sep 2006, 14:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Re; BOTFII Masterplan

Still leaves a lot to interpetation so far. Waiting to hear if I can make a hard copy of the MAsterplan. (See I'm useful!!) I think of things others may not of. I nkow I know I'm back being a thorn in the side of the develpers! Sorry Guys! I know your all working hard on this fine Game!

I'll keep reading and making more notes..

Author:  Azhdeen [ 25 Sep 2006, 16:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Re; BOTFII Masterplan

This post is going to be retardedly long. You have been warned.

Actually, I've been thinking about the evacuation part of the game and what technology the race can grab. Having the game using randomly snag technology would probably be the easiest programmable path, but a civilization that is evacuating their world would most likely pack things in a certain priority. I mean, all of the security databanks in the world won't feed you in your new home.

Warning, this might get complicated....

Maybe there should be some sort of table or data structure that contains a priority list. If any of you ever played GM'd a D&D game, you might see where I'm going with this (magical item creation in D&D).

A civilization's priority for survival in another world would be food and shelter. So, the first table will contain food and shelter technologies which can be randomly selected. A second concern after the first has been addressed would be protection, and here the shields and weapon platforms and the like would be saved. Some of the more "important ones" could even have a range that would select it. For example (and I'm just going to make up random things to show my idea):

Assume the program will select a number between 1 and 100.
1- 20 Farm/food Technology N (n stands for whatever tech level they're at)
21 - 25 Federation Replicator
26 - 55 Biosphere level N
56 - 75 Air Filtration System

Now, that sets the priority table up to 75 on a random 100 roll. There can also be some other possibilities which I'll show here:

76 - 95 Bring a technology from priority level 2
96 - 100 Run random 100 twice more (for the chance of bringing two technologies for the price of one)

Of course, these values could all be modified for game place balance. But note that I did allow for the possibility that this tier get's skipped, or some incredibly smart person is capable of saving 2 technologies instead of just 1. I'm assuming that this will be performed a number of times that is proportionate to the number of people that are being evacuated. Also, once a technology is "saved", it can be removed from the table, and the value range of the chance of bringing a tier 2 item increases. Let me run my example a couple of times.

There are 50 million people being "saved". For every 10 million people, we will bring a technology. Since those 50 million are focused on survival, they will want as much food and shelter technology as possible. The 50 million people are capable of saving technology 5 times.

1- 20 Farm/food Technology N (n stands for whatever tech level they're at)
21 - 25 Federation Replicator
26 - 55 Biosphere level N
56 - 75 Air Filtration System
76 - 95 Bring a technology from priority level 2
96 - 100 Run random 100 twice more (for the chance of bringing two technologies for the price of one)

Try 1 - random 100 = 22. The first 10 million people save a Federation Replicator.

Now the table will look like:

1- 20 Farm/food Technology N (n stands for whatever tech level they're at)
21 - 25 Bring a technology from priority level 2
26 - 55 Biosphere level N
56 - 75 Air Filtration System
76 - 95 Bring a technology from priority level 2
96 - 100 Run random 100 twice more (for the chance of bringing two technologies for the price of one)

So now, if the game rolls a 21-25 or a 76-95, they will grab a tier 2 priority level technology instead of a tier 1. As I stated, the second tier of priority I would imagine a civilization would be concerned about would be self-protection. So if the game now rolls a 22 again, these 10 million people will be trying to save something along the lines of a shield generator or an orbital battery. The tier 2 tables would operate the same way as tier 1. And every tier will be able to go down the line until the last tier which will have nowhere else to go. Here are the least important technologies, like your espionage/sabotage technologies or something (this might even depend on what race you are).

Also, if you end up rolling between a 96-100, this bunch of 10 million people will get to roll twice more, thus saving two technologies. You could even change it to give a chance that these 10 million people won't save anything. a 96-99 would allow for saving 2 technologies, and 100 would mean saving 0 technologies. Also, if either of these two options are chosen by the program, then they get replaced with the "snag a technology from the next tier" just like the normal technologies to prevent the small chance that one group of 10 million people wind up saving 9 technologies or a group of 50 million people save 0 technologies.

Does this make sense? :p It’s really long, and I might not be 100% clear on it. I can run through a full example to show what I’m talking about. I do have questions on how easy it will be to program, and that alone could become a discussion on itself, although I do have some ideas on how to do that as well.

Author:  Matress_of_evil [ 25 Sep 2006, 18:23 ]
Post subject:  Re: Re; BOTFII Masterplan


Author:  Azhdeen [ 25 Sep 2006, 20:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: Re; BOTFII Masterplan


Author:  Winterhawk [ 26 Sep 2006, 05:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: Re; BOTFII Masterplan


Author:  Matress_of_evil [ 26 Sep 2006, 08:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Re; BOTFII Masterplan

LOL

It will probably be an AI decision again, but obviously based on race traits. As Azhdeen said, the Mizarians aren't gonna fight, are they? They'll just sit and wait for their enemies to take over. And on the other side of the spectrum, the Chalnoth and the Nausicaans will be waiting with their Disruptors pointing at the skies.

Most races would be more even about their decision though. They would evacuate the civilian population, and leave the military behind to do what they can to slow or even stop the invasion.

It would be the same with the Empires as well. The Federation would likely evacuate as many people as they possibly could, set all key structures to self-destruct and leave behind any orbital defenses to pound the hell out of the enemy. Any buildings that would be saved would be food and shelter first, energy buildings second, defenses third, and technology fourth.

The Klingons would likely not even think about evacuating people or saving buildings - except for perhaps their honoured craftsmen/forges and ye'jan/halls of learning - afterall, without weapons and technology, there cannot be victory. As in BOTF though, they would recieve a large ground combat bonus for having such a large fighting force available on the Planet.

The Romulans would probably quietly evacuate the most important officials, scientists, and whatnot, then create a huge misinformation campaign to ensure the populace does not hear of the Star Empires "failure" to protect their Planets. Databanks would be the most important buildings to save, and they would have the highest chances of disrupting an enemy invasion thanks to hidden bombs, booby-traps, and guerilla warfare.

The Cardassians would save their slaves, energy buildings, military structures, and resources first and foremost, as these would be the foundation stones of the new evacuation colony. They would leave many traps on the Planet and use any method to "dispose" of the alien threat. They would have the second-highest chance of disrupting an enemy invasion, thanks to hidden bombs, booby-traps, and guerilla warfare.

The Dominion would save the Founders, with second thought perhaps going to saving any technology and resources they possibly can. They would leave behind a massive Jem'Hadar defense force and a large amount of Ketracel White supplies, to ensure the Jem'Hadar fight for their reward. They would leave behind all military installations to ensure nothing can take the system from the hands of the Founders.

...

As I said earlier, all this is down to who programs it though. The devs may decide to do it differently, or may even decide that such a system simply isn't worthwhile. I dont want people to get their hopes up until someone confirms that it will be implemented.

Author:  Azhdeen [ 26 Sep 2006, 15:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Re; BOTFII Masterplan

This one is huge. In this response, I reply to the ideas presented and redefine exactly what I would imagine could be implimented into the program. Hence, this is a huge reply.

-----------------------------------------

Hmm, that's something I didn't actually think of...

This has shifted from what to do during an evacuation to when to commense an evacuation. And that... I wouldn't know how to program accurately or easily.

However, as for being able to pick what items to take from a colony that is evacuating, that should be possible but would require additional programming. We can just revise the table so that the option is possible. And the range of this option could possibly be affected by the amount of time you have to evacuate.

For example, if the planet is going to suffer from a cataclysmic volcanic erruption that is unpreventable and complete change/destroy the planet's ecosystem, and you know this will happen in 15-20 turns, that's plenty of time to evacuate in a very orderly fashion.

Thus, the table could look like:

1 - 10 Farm/Food production building
11 - 13 Federation replicator
14 - 17 Biosphere
18 - 20 Some other random technologies
21 - 25 Roll twice more
26 No technology taken
27 Take something from a lower tier
28 - 100 Player picks a technology from those that are built

Now it's just a matter of programming the interfaces and backend code that will allow the user to pick which building they're bringing. That's entirely possible.

But... if you are told that the Borg are coming (and at that point, I'm pretty sure even the Mizarians would want to get the hell out of Dodge) and they'll be there in ONE TURN (OHNOES!!), I would imagine that the ability for the player to choose would be severly hampered or removed. So now the table would probably change to something like:

1 - 20 Food buildings
21 - 25 replicators
26 - 30 Happyfuntechnologyforsurvival
31 - XX some other technologies
80 - 89 Take something from a lower tier
90 - 92 Take two technologies
93 - 99 Take no technologies
100 The player gets to pick

If your colony is rushing to get the hell out, chances are they will just grab whatever they can get, although they'll still try to focus on food and shelter first. I mean, one turn is not enough time to order an organized evacuation. It's essentially "get all the food and supplies you can and leave town now" type of deal.

Now, this idea of varying the chances of any particular event happening during an evacuation based on the amount of time to evacuate complicates things. There needs to be some sort of equations in place that will be able to automatically alter the base range values for each results. At present, I do not have such a system of equations, although I could probably develop some if given all the possible technologies that are available. I also do not know how this will effect the performance of each turn as the game attempts to resolve all of the orders, which is something that I'm currently ignoring. If the Romulans decide to launch a 5-pronged assult on your territory and you evacuate all 5, I do not know if it'll take a minute or two for the turn to resolve. I mean, these calculations by themselves will be VERY fast. But there's also ship movement, combat, planet management, all sorts of things and they all add up.

I love this discussion and I think it's turning into a great idea. However, I see it as an option that could be implimented once the main framework of the game is established and we have an idea of how effecient the game is, possibly something that can be implimented after the Alpha test. However, I'm also noting that this part of the program will not get called every turn, if ever, in any particular game. So the performance issues it raises may be nill simply because the evacuation event will be a rare occurance and thus makes it worth implimenting because of the increase in flexibility and play effenciency it gives the player when relocating the colony when it is used.

I would love nothing more than to give the player the most amount of options possible. However, for a game to be successful, it does have to be relatively simple. Thus, I would most likely stick to a purely AI-driven evacuation plan.

----------------------------------

Here's what I envision would be implimented at some point:

In the racial files for each race (empire and minor), there will be a list of technologies that are salvageable. Each technology will have a priority number and a base chance under a stress-free evacuation (20 turns or whatever the max amount of notification will be). Equations will be set up to determine the actual chance each technology has of being selected that will incorporate the amount of time available for the evacuation. More time means more ability to plan ahead. Less time means rushed decisions and less time to prepare. The equations will provide a small amount of variance. Thus, knowing things ahead of time provides a distinct advantage.

Note: I'm assuming that when your empire discovers some horrific event is going to occur, a pop-up box will be displayed and it will ask the player if evacuation plans should commense. If a player starts the evacuation, then the colony will stop all production and will sustain itself long enough to complete the evacuation. It is also up to the player to order ships to proceed to the colony once the order is given. On the last turn of the evacuation (or the player could force the evacuation before the catastrophic event in the system menu if a button is programmed to be displayed I guess - I don't know what you guys had planned for it yet), the game will compute how much space is available in the ships that are in the sector and then will evacuate until the ships are filled or the planet is empty, whichever comes first. For every X number of population units (I used 10 million as an example) one technology building will attempt to be saved using the racial table data files for evacuations.

Also note: the evacuation capacity of each ship will include the amount of people it can carry AND any equipment they are bringing. Having two seperate systems to track people and technology will only add complexity to the programmer and the player and is unneccesary. If a ship is capable of evacuating 10 million people (that's a ton of people but again, I'm just making this up to illustrate the point) then that ship can carry 10 million people AND the technology they salvage. Keep in mind, that can either be 0, 1, or 2 buildings in my examples. 100% accurate? Nope. Here's a good place where accuracy is less important than gameplay.

The game will now compute what the ranges are for each technology based on the amount of time the colony has been evacuating for. For every X number of people evacuated, the game will roll a number between 1 and 100 (or any other number, as long as the range is accounted for in all of the racial tables). It will then select which result occured.

Each technology will have a priority as I stated earlier. A priority of 0 means the technology is not salvageable for that particular race that is evacuating (this means no weapons for the Mizarians, and other exceptions can be taken cared of here). A priority of 1 means that the technology is part of the first table that will get checked. Also, part of each table will also have the following events that could occur:

Instead of saving a technology, randomly roll between 1-100 twice more times.
No technology is saved.
Attempt to save a technology from the lower table (this will be unavailable for the last tiered table).

Now, every time a technology option is selected, it will get replaced in the table with "Attempt to save a technology from the lower table". That means that if you save a federation replicator from tier 1 and it had a range from 20-29, rolling between a 20-29 a second time will result in the attempt to salvage a tier 2 technology.

I would also envision that this is left up to the AI. Some hardcore players would prefer the choice or even the chance of choosing, myself included. However, it adds some complexity to the game for the average player and I would recommend that salvaging technology is left entirely up to the AI.

Also, when it comes to the standard structures that drive colonies (farms/food, mass replicators, energy production, research buildings, databanks), there has to be some sort of solution on deciding how many of each building it could be possible to bring during an evacuation. Afterall, chances are a colony will want to bring as many food buildings and mass replicators as possible. Or perhaps they should not be salvageable at all due to their bulky size and only unique structures such as replicators, shield generators, charge collectors, and the like are salvageable.

Anyways, that's what I've got so far. When I have time (I don't know when that will be) I can look up all of the standard techonology buildings that are available and determine a rought guesstimate of what the range equations for each building could look like. The more time there is, the more chance of bringing 2 technologies for the price of 1. The less time there is, the more chance there is of bringing a lower tiered technology or even 0 technology instead. That's the goal.

Author:  Matress_of_evil [ 26 Sep 2006, 19:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Re; BOTFII Masterplan


Author:  mstrobel [ 26 Sep 2006, 19:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: Re; BOTFII Masterplan

I'm still reading through these replies, and I won't be able to finish until I get back from my next class in ~2 hours, but I've got a couple quick comments:

1.) Azhdeen brought up performance implications. I wouldn't worry about this. Turn processing will generally take a split second, even with a lot of added calculations. The vast majority of the time spent processing a turn is the time it take to download the new game state (for multiplayer games), and the time it takes to re-render the galactic map. Everything else is trivial.

2.) I had always assumed that evacuation would only evacuate colonists. I hadn't considered evacuating buildings, but I like the idea.

3.) I think a set of tables and per-building flags would be the best way to go about implementing the evacuation of buildings. My current plan for ship orders would give you the option of selecting one target as a parameter. For example, given a "Follow" order, you would select an enemy fleet within range to follow. For a "Tow" order, you would select a stranded ship to tow. This system would be fairly straightforward to implement, and would add a lot of flexibility to the game. If you wanted to select multiple buildings to evacuate, I would have to devise a much more complicated system. Thus, the simplest solution would be to have the AI use a table and pick what it believes are the most strategically valuable buildings, or to let the user pick a certain category of buildings ("Food", "Energy", etc.) and then let the AI pick the most valuable buildings from that category.

I look forward to reading the rest of this thread. Please, keep the responses coming. Don't let me discourage you guys from tossing ideas around. I've been known to break down and change my mind about things before ;).

---

EDIT:

OK, so I've finished skimming over this thread. I don't really have much to add, other than this:

I could implement a property of any structure called "Volume", which represents the amount of cargo space that a building takes up. A colony ship or transport could have n units of volume capacity. We could assume that a "person" (1 population unit) and his/her personal belongings take up 1 unit of volume. Small buildings and structures (like orbitals) might take up 10-15 units of volume, and larger buildings would take up 25-75 units of volume. If a colony ship has a capacity of 100 units of volume, and there are still 150 people in a star system that is being evacuated, then it would probably attempt to evacuate somewhere around 75 units of population and use the other 25 units to save a food production facility. If there are only 25 people left on in the system, it would probably evacuate all 25, and then spend the other 75 units of capacity on as many buildings as could be saved.

This could also be used to calculate the best buildings to take to a new colony. If a Tech Level 8 farm takes up 1/2 as much space as a Tech Level 4 farm, then you would be able to bring more buildings to a new colony at higher tech levels.

Note: 1 unit of volume per 1 million people may be low, so that value could easily be changed to 5 or 10.

Author:  Matress_of_evil [ 27 Sep 2006, 08:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Re; BOTFII Masterplan

I could certainly live with your system, MStrobel. It's easy to udnerstand, and should be relatively easy to implement, especially since you suggested it. :lol:

Now the question is making up the table. We could ask Dafedz to do it (Since this sort of thing is his specialty and he's already done all the other stats and stuff for the game) or one of us could do it. I wouldn't mind doing it if people want me to, but trhanks to other commitments my time online is severely restricted compared to what it used to be. :cry:

Author:  Winterhawk [ 27 Sep 2006, 14:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Re; BOTFII Masterplan


Author:  Azhdeen [ 27 Sep 2006, 19:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Re; BOTFII Masterplan

Alrighty... something that should be stated upfront:

Evacuations are only useful if you know something bad is coming. If the Borg are detected at the fringes of your space and headed towards your closest system, that qualifies as bad. You have two options: make a stand and hope you win or move everyone off the planet (which does little to stop the Borg, they'll just find your next closest system but hey, the option is there). The Borg are good example because they are predictable. If you have something they want, they will take it and ignore everything else.

I used some examples about having other empires invading you. These are poor examples that I made up to simply illustrate what I was aiming for. You *might* be able to intercept plans of an invasion, but for the purposes of this game that is impossible to impliment. The AI is constantly revising decisions with every click of the turn button, not to mention that human players can change their minds whenever they want. Having said that, I would like to know when enemy ships cross my boarders which BoTF1 currently does not do. When I span across half the galaxy, I usually don't realize the romulans or any other empire is subjugating one of my fringe systems until BoTF1 tells me "The Roms took suchandsuch system". Gee, thanks for telling me now when I had 9 defiants 2 turns away bored out of their minds. However, if you *think* the colony might get invaded, you can always relocate it as a pre-emptive measure. Evacuation... relocation... same result, just different spelling and intention.

Possible problem: if you can evacuate a colony at will, what is preventing players (or even the AI) from using evacuations to help facilitate normal colonization? There will have to be an obvious benefit to using colony ships (beyond the ability to teraform). As such, I'd simply build one or two colony ships for teraforming systems, and then use my attack vessels to "evacuate" my home system and deposit them on nearby worlds. That's a pretty fast way of expanding an empire in the early game. So, there has to be a "price" to evacuations so they are not used as a replacement to colonization or a major benefit needs to exist so that utilizing colony ships for... well, you know... colonizing is worth while.

I don't have a really good answer for that other than this (personally, I think it sucks, but I'll mention it in the hopes of a good discussion):
X number of turns (I'd figure 5 turns, but we can vary it) after an evacuation is completed, the planet becomes uninhabited. These turns are refreshable if another evacuation to another ship commences within these 5 or so turns. For example, if the Borg is headed towards Outtersystem Alpha and you order an evacuation on turn 50 to a Superrandom class starship. The evacuation takes 1 turn and on turn 51 it is completed. On turn 56, the planet will become uninhabited. However, another ship has arrived into the sector at turn 54 to help with the evacuation. On turn 54, the evacuation order is given and it will take 1 turn to complete. So on turn 55, the evacuation will finish and now the system will become uninhabited on turn 60 instead of 56. Again, if a third ship reaches the sector and commences an evacuation before (or on) turn 60, then you get another 5 turn grace period on the colony.

Obviously, you don't want to be evacuating systems at this point unless you have a damn good reason to. Plus, if you are evacuating a system, then you're expecting to have no more population on it. Realistic? Probably not, but most evacuations wouldn't take place unless most or all of the population can be saved anyways. For example, if the Borg are headed to Sol (zomg! First Contact!) then chances are you'll attempt to stop the cube entirely rather than just evacuate the system.

Eh, like I said, I don't really like this idea myself. It has a lot of holes in it, but there has to be something to prevent people from abusing the evacuation system so that it is not used as a colonization system that happens to have some sweet already constructed production buildings for their new "colony" of refugees from their 100% totally protected home system. Meanwhile, any buildings that were grabbed in the "evacuation" can be rebuilt in about 2 turns, hence the abuse.

Author:  Winterhawk [ 28 Sep 2006, 18:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: Re; BOTFII Masterplan


Author:  Matress_of_evil [ 28 Sep 2006, 20:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: Re; BOTFII Masterplan


Author:  Winterhawk [ 28 Sep 2006, 21:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Re; BOTFII Masterplan


Author:  sblewett [ 29 Sep 2006, 03:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: Re; BOTFII Masterplan


Author:  Winterhawk [ 29 Sep 2006, 13:23 ]
Post subject:  Re: Re; BOTFII Masterplan


Author:  Azhdeen [ 29 Sep 2006, 14:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: Re; BOTFII Masterplan

Ugh, that's a really strict set of rules. First and foremost: I'd want to see evacuations used for natural, unstoppable disasters (see: random events).

Secondly, I'd want to see evacuations be useful for POWERFUL (and not just those that wish to be powerful) alien races that will decimate systems. The Borg, Crystaline Entity and the like would fall into this category (see: random events).

See where I'm going with this? Yes, an invasion is usually a pretty good reason to skip town. But how can you be sure there will be an invasion? But, with random events, there will be some that are predictable. A Borg Tactical cube has entered the fringers of your sensor network. It's heading indicates a direct path to Sol (I'm going to assume that while the Borg fly to Sol and they come across a populated Sector, they will claim it for all Borgkind and continue on, so I wonder if it'd be possible to attach other possible systems that could get stomped on in the alert). At their current velocity, they will be in Sol in x turns.

That's predictable. In a BoTF-type game, however, invasion is not so predictable. For starters, the "intelligence" a typical warring entity would gather would help figure out where attacks are going to occur (which could be right or wrong), which is not possible for the game. Evacuations are a pre-emptive move but there has to be a strong indicator for the pre-emption. With BoTF, all you've got is "hey, they've invaded me and probably will again" but then the question becomes "Ok... well... where will they strike next?" Don't know.

You can make some educated guesses, and chances are good your home system will get hammered early if it's not bristling with defenses (at that point, you're probably going to lose anyways).

I dunno, I'm starting to question evacuations entirely. Personally, I don't see the value in evacuating people before an invasion. If an empire does decide to attack a system - any system, it's buying me time to make more ships and other defenses. If I just abandon the system, then they'll simply just attack the next one on their hitlist and now I'm screwed out of 2 systems worth of production. And repopulating an evacuated fringe system just requires a colony ships and a few turns to bring it back up to where it was. Plus subjugated systems usually have sparse infrastructure and a difficult morale level, so it'll be 5-10 turns before they can do much with the system anyways.

However, if a star in a system ever goes nova or the borg are headed your way, the evacuations would be useful since they are predictable and pretty much gaurenteed to cause a lot of trouble to specific systems. There's no point in leaving population on those systems as there's not much you can do (system-wise) to slow down ultimate destruction.

As for modded games... BoTF was never intended to be modded. Thus, there are no checks for it. Games that are moddable usually have checks to ensure that the system files are the same (or I could see them over-riding the mods and referring back to a default game for the multiplayer session, and then reverting the mod back "on" so to speak afterwards).

Author:  Winterhawk [ 29 Sep 2006, 19:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Re; BOTFII Masterplan


Author:  Matress_of_evil [ 29 Sep 2006, 23:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Re; BOTFII Masterplan

On the moddability side, there's always gonna be problems unless people have the same files. I honestly don't think it would be possible to play a game where the files of different players are different. There may be a way around this - i'm certainy not a programmer in any way, shape, or form - but I doubt that there is one.

As with everything else, it's all down to the programmers.

...

Allowing evacuation with the randomEvents would be extremely easy. All you have to do is program it so:

Random event happens = Evacuation possible.

This system is open to abuse because which system is evacuation allowed in? It isn't specified so we assume ALL systems.

We could complicate it by doing:

Random Event in sector xxx = Evacuation possible in sector xxx.

But this would make it really obvious where a random event will strike - just check each system each turn, and if you can evacuate it, you know something bad is on it's way!

We could complicate it further by doing:

Random Event in sector xxx = Evacuation possible in sector xxx, xxy, and xxz.

The player would now have to guess as to where the event is going to happen - do you risk evacuating the wrong place? Do you instead prepare for invasion?

And we could complicate it even further by:

If systems lost = x,
- and -
Random Event is in sector xxx = Evacuation is possible in sectors xxx, xxy, and xxz.

Obviously there may be further way to improve what i've written to make it more variable and less obvious, and what i've put needs translation into programming speak, but it could be possible.

We are still left with the problem of evacuating during wars though. How do you control it? What penalties would it have to balance it out? How often will it be allowed? How much time will it take? What will it cost?

I really think we need a wider discussion on this, so if anyone else has any thoughts on the matter, please post!

You might want to rename the thread or something to make it more obvious as well, Winterhawk. Just edit your first post and change the thread title. :wink:

Author:  Winterhawk [ 30 Sep 2006, 00:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: Re; BOTFII Masterplan


Author:  Matress_of_evil [ 30 Sep 2006, 00:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Possable problems with the Evacutation Stage.


Author:  Nemitor_Atimen [ 30 Sep 2006, 01:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Possable problems with the Evacutation Stage.


Author:  Winterhawk [ 30 Sep 2006, 21:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Possable problems with the Evacutation Stage.


Author:  Nemitor_Atimen [ 01 Oct 2006, 21:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Possable problems with the Evacutation Stage.


Author:  Winterhawk [ 02 Oct 2006, 11:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: Possable problems with the Evacutation Stage.


Author:  Nemitor_Atimen [ 02 Oct 2006, 16:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: Possable problems with the Evacutation Stage.


Author:  Azhdeen [ 03 Oct 2006, 14:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: Possable problems with the Evacutation Stage.


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