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Scientists tout 'world's densest' circuit
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Author:  Winterhawk [ 26 Jan 2007, 01:38 ]
Post subject:  Scientists tout 'world's densest' circuit
Now this is interesting;

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16810584/wid/11915829/


enjoy.......
Author:  hilditch [ 26 Jan 2007, 02:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scientists tout 'world's densest' circuit
well it would be interesting to read all the papers cause that is some work. That is getting very close to the limit of the Hesienberg Uncertainty principle.
Author:  Winterhawk [ 26 Jan 2007, 02:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scientists tout 'world's densest' circuit
hilditch wrote:
well it would be interesting to read all the papers cause that is some work. That is getting very close to the limit of the Hesienberg Uncertainty principle.


And what is that? Can not say I have heard of it before.
Author:  Malvoisin [ 26 Jan 2007, 09:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scientists tout 'world's densest' circuit
heisenberg's the reason why the MHz (GHz) of the CPU's aren't rising anymore like they did back then 5 years ago!

it simply says the impulse and the location of a particle (any piece of matter here) is only measurable down to a certain Planck-Wirkungsquantum (germany again here ;)) so you cannot get endlessly smaller in circuit and wafer sizes for building everfaster CPUs for example.

btw. watch Stargate, Sam's always talking about Heisenberg, at least twice every episode ;)

the formula: delta(p)*delta(x)>=h/2*pi
Author:  Winterhawk [ 26 Jan 2007, 10:19 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scientists tout 'world's densest' circuit
Malvoisin,

So your really talking about nano technology here. I can see where it was /is leading and makes sence. Once the edge of the threshold is reached, then it becomes time to change to something a bit more tangable like a bio mechancial device. I.E. something along the lines of making it organic, which then could be made more powerful and yet even smaller.

But We are a long ways away from something like that are we not? I mean in terms of Human sciences and understanding....

Shoot if you look around we in truth do not have that much control over what we have already made. (meaning general populus)
Author:  skeeter [ 26 Jan 2007, 12:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scientists tout 'world's densest' circuit
Double the size of the cpu and then start filling it with more speed. :p
Author:  Malvoisin [ 26 Jan 2007, 12:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scientists tout 'world's densest' circuit
presque (to use a french word) :)

they do multiprocessor-cores now (dual core duo multi heavy whatever..;))

it's just too much "leak" current meaning wafers heat up and explode (not mentioning the power source needed for doubling cpu size :))
Author:  hilditch [ 26 Jan 2007, 19:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scientists tout 'world's densest' circuit
Also people do not want to go back to the days of large computers after we have all got used to small ones. The next major advance in computers will be like the change from vacuum tubes to semiconductor chips.
Almost every physical observable has a Hesienberg relation, for example energy and time have a relation so the exact energy and the exact time are impossible to know more than the uncertainty h/2pi (also called the modified Plancks constant)
Author:  Winterhawk [ 27 Jan 2007, 20:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scientists tout 'world's densest' circuit
What? you do not want a computer in your room the size of a Semi trailer? lol

If they do anything, I want one that I can just talk to and it will type out what I want. like a Trek computer system! ( Sigh ) Someday!
Author:  TheWhiteRaven [ 27 Jan 2007, 21:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scientists tout 'world's densest' circuit
Speech recognition is actually a major feature in Windows Vista. I've had the chance to try it out a bit and while it's not perfect, it one of the most accurate I've seen for what it does. You can dictate in any text program, and tell the computer to open files and change settings. Pretty cool if you ask me :D
Author:  mstrobel [ 27 Jan 2007, 21:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scientists tout 'world's densest' circuit
Malvoisin wrote:
it's just too much "leak" current meaning wafers heat up and explode (not mentioning the power source needed for doubling cpu size :))
Intel just announced a breakthrough in their 45nm process that will drastically cut down on current leakage by using a high-k gate dielectric. Sounds cool, but I'm no engineer, so this may already be old news to you ;).
Author:  TrekBoyChris [ 27 Jan 2007, 23:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scientists tout 'world's densest' circuit
So just wondering but what's the current limit with "Hesienberg Uncertainty" on CPU speed and nm process? If you don't mind me asking Malvosin, what's your occupation as you seem to have a huge knowledge of various theories?
Author:  Malvoisin [ 28 Jan 2007, 05:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scientists tout 'world's densest' circuit
actually this high-k gate dielectric is nothing new, they just found the right isolator material now for the gates, that allows for less voltage to be used in the transistor. Lower voltage means less energy of the electron flow means less quantum tunneling means less current leak means less heat means good job ;) (also "phonon scattering" increases the electrical resistance but that seems to be solved with the new material/metal on the gate).

They found the right metal for the gate electrodes which consisted of polysilicium before so it's basically the work of engineers (which I am surprisingly not though I made some remarks in that corner before to mstrobel, but I just once helped to program a mosfet/mesfet numerical simulation for my professor so there's where my knowledge comes from).

I'm from the mathematics department lol :)
Author:  mstrobel [ 28 Jan 2007, 05:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scientists tout 'world's densest' circuit
You're a smarter man than I am, Malle. Math and I don't get along terribly well. I used to think I was pretty good with math, but after three university level Calculus courses, Advanced Combinatorics, and Differential Equations, I realized I was mistaken ;).
Author:  Malvoisin [ 28 Jan 2007, 05:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scientists tout 'world's densest' circuit
hehe ;)

I know I had to fight with the more advanced pde stuff too when I got there in the 5th semester. Well even such easygoin's like neumann and dirichlet boundary conditions took me weeks (and loads of sheets and papers filled with my braingarbage lol to the exercises we needed to do..) to comprehend in depth what's goin on there.

Now I almost laugh at that time and myself.. lol
but it seems only we mathematicians and maybe the physics guys need to really do that to them(our-)selves :)
Author:  Winterhawk [ 28 Jan 2007, 06:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scientists tout 'world's densest' circuit
Ahhh so those superconductors and forgot what they called the other object they developed in the mid 80's which used gold and another element I cannot pronounce are now useless trash then?

I read about them in Scientific weekly a long time ago.
Author:  Malvoisin [ 28 Jan 2007, 09:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scientists tout 'world's densest' circuit
no they aren't. In fact they would just vanish the metal gate resistance problem (still tunneling would remain a problem, but smaller then). It's just that superconductors are expensive and they still need some 200 degrees kelvin to function (273K=0° Celsius and I don't know which makes that on the (funny ;)) fahrenheit scale .. ).

Superconductors can be the remedy of many problems now and I'm sure engineers can work something really brilliant out of this but still heisenberg holds (star trek has a (lol) "heisenberg-compensator" for their transporter beam. No joke! :D).
Author:  hilditch [ 28 Jan 2007, 16:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scientists tout 'world's densest' circuit
Most superconductors work at lower temperatures than 200K normally about 70k (minus 200 degrees C) its only in the last few years 'high' temperature superconductors which are about 200k + .
Like in Maths, I have lots of paper of pde mainly from Quantum mechanics, alot of which now makes no sense what so ever with me.
Author:  Winterhawk [ 28 Jan 2007, 20:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scientists tout 'world's densest' circuit
Interesting! Good to have you two around!

So with a chip like what was described, would it make our home systems smaller? I.E. A person would not need a tower, monitor, etc. I guess what I'm getting at is it would make the home systems smaller taking up less space, Yet able to hold 3X (guessing) the processing speed and memory?
Author:  hilditch [ 29 Jan 2007, 04:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scientists tout 'world's densest' circuit
Thanks, its either; spend far too much time online or do some of the large amount of physics work i need to do.
Not sure what they will do with the new chips, thats more of a making computers, I know abit more about Quantum Computer will are a VERY long way from being using for anything else other than testing on.
Author:  Winterhawk [ 30 Jan 2007, 11:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scientists tout 'world's densest' circuit
big question to me is, is this chip in time going to be cost effective? I read there are some that were developed years ago. but even now it is not worth the cost to mass produce them for things other then say a Satlilte or for space exploration.

If I understood it right.
Author:  Azhdeen [ 30 Jan 2007, 14:50 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scientists tout 'world's densest' circuit
There is no way in hell that this chip is even remotely cost-effective... for now. We need to wait for newer technology to render this chip more and more obsolete so that its price goes down :p
Author:  hilditch [ 30 Jan 2007, 15:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scientists tout 'world's densest' circuit
Any chip that comes onto the retail market is normally just about obsolete. It takes a while for any new technology to become profitable for the companies who design them.
Technological progress in the last 10 years is still amazing, for example my cell phone has an inbuilt 3.2 megapixel digital camera. If you go back 10 years would people think we would have that? Probability not.
Author:  Malvoisin [ 30 Jan 2007, 16:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scientists tout 'world's densest' circuit
if ya had asked me..
Author:  Winterhawk [ 30 Jan 2007, 20:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scientists tout 'world's densest' circuit
but I am asking Mal.. everyone..
Author:  FoxURA [ 31 Jan 2007, 03:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scientists tout 'world's densest' circuit
Interesting stuff... But I think i'll stick to art and business.
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