Anyone see this? I just got a Wii last weekend, so I'm interested to hear more...

Hmm...first i've heard of it. That's going in my favourites though. A Trek game on the Wii? Sweeeeeet.

...Could you imagine Starfleet Command with the Wiimote? Ooh...goosebumps...

...

Mike, if you've got a Wii, make sure you get Marvel Alliance, Heatseeker and Excitetruck. Great games.

Excellent, I could use some good recommendations . This is the first console system I'm bought, so I'm not familiar with many of the popular console game series.

NONE of the games that I mentioned are from a particular 'series' of console games.

Marvel Alliance, Excitetruck, and Heatseeker are one-off games. Marvel Alliance and Heatseeker are available on other consoles, but Excitetruck is a Wii-exclusive.

If you want me to recommend series, then Zelda, Donkey Kong, and Mario are the obvious choices. Zelda: Twilight Princess is out for the Wii, although I simply cannot get into it anywhere near as well as I did with Zelda: Ocarina of Time for the N64. Trust me - BUY OCARINA OF TIME ON THE VIRTUAL CONSOLE - it's one of the best console games ever made, and one of only a handful of games with a pefect score - on several sites. As stated on Gamespot:



The game was released in 1998 - which is obviously 9 years ago. The critics have <almost> been proved right about this game. You honestly can't praise this game enough...even if the graphics are a little dated now.

Donkey Kong isn't out yet for the Wii - the release date in America is around October, so don't even look for it. Same goes for Super Mario Galaxy - that's out in November in America. We've got to wait a few months longer before the release of both of these games in the UK. We always get a raw deal on games.

i still got zelda ocarina, got it on a special disk that came with the gamecubes zelda wind waker

I've got Zelda Orcarina of time, plus the 'extra hard' or whatever edition for the Gamecube. got it for like 5 bucks (literally) at walmart.

That was perhaps the ONLY time i ever bought a game at walmart. Ever. I havnt set foot in one in at least 3 years.

Yeah, I got the special bonus disk with Windwaker as well. If you haven't got the disk though, the cheapest way to get it through the virtual console - and even though the N64 games are the most expensive of the virtual console downloads, it's still only 7 quid. (About $14.34US, but it's probably less than that coz like I said earlier, we always get a raw deal on games in the UK. )

I know that some people hated it, but I personally think Windwaker was a really good game. And whilst the graphics were cartoony, they were extremely detailed. I particularly liked Hyrule Castle. I just wish the devs had asked for the extra time they needed to put the two extra levels in the game like they originally wanted. Windwaker is just two short.

New section on legacy main site about conquest with some art work and details and a section new on trek berthesda forums.

http://startrek.bethsoft.com/games/conq ... rview.html

A turn-based Trek strategy game for a console? I have a feeling it's going to be pretty limited based on the description--very unlike BotF. Note how the overview doesn't include anything about diplomacy, trade, intel, etc. I have a feeling that the game will lack a lot of depth and will try to focus more on tactical combat than empire management. I'm less than confident about the game based on Bethsoft's track record.

EDIT: $29.99 for the Wii version and $19.99 for the PS2 version? And scheduled for release this holiday season? Sounds like a low-budget low-complexity production for sure.

It will be on the PC, but no doubt as you suspect will be designed to function on the console first and foremost. say hello to clunky UI

edit NM that was legacy lol :S

hm, guess not.. look here: http://bethblog.com/?p=185

hehe a galaxy and time where diplomacy is dead, nice description for not having had time to implement it before release

anyway, no multiplayer? that's a bit galciv-alike IIRC..

Well, I had said on the bethsoft forums that it sounded like the strategy aspect of the game was going to be similar to Star Wars: Empire at War (but without the land combat). They finally posted a screenshot of the turn-based aspect of the game, and I have to say, it's remarkably similar .

I dunno but it makes me feel a little odd regarding those latest events on the German Fedcon in Bonn and that legal suit which now takes its second round (the case is now that Treknews, a fan-site, went too far in their work...do I sense some parallels resp. possibilities of such here ). I don't wanna say this should necessarily happen to us but since we're quite far ahead here and well, bethsoft games weren't that, how should I say, big hits lately, couldn't it be just so that we offer them here a means to make cheap money out of their license just by taking legal actions? I mean 4000 downloads (or download hits better ), that sums up to quite something if multiplied by the conquest retail price.
In order not to drive too far away off-topic and use my crystal ball too much, one has to know what their license is and states exactly as their legal rights. If it implements overall development of any st-content computer game, either if it's published free or not, then they have a real good hammer in their pocket to throw in our direction let alone the big money (I think 500.000 bucks are realistic here) that could be made..

if this is something better discussed in the staff room, I suggest moving my post there would be a good idea since it's all readable (and saveable) in the net..

We've always known that legal issues will be a problem with making the game, and so we agreed when we first started that if anyone ever came to us specifically with such concerns, that we would stop the project until those concerns were resolved somehow. I believe there was some stuff about it in TWAAO (Things We All Agree On) but as that' now dead, we don't really seem to have an "official" policy on legalities.

We are escaping many of the legal issues simply because we are making the game out of our own time and pocket - we will never charge anyone for any of the BOTF2 games, so we will not be making a prophit from doing so.

Of course, these decision are something that was made way back in Gavins' time - before Supremacy, Allegiance, or BOTE even existed. You may be right that we need to sit down and discuss it all again.

Personally I'd make it an open discussion - we are making this project for the community, so the community should have their say on the legal issues too. For all we know there may even be experts in the community that could help us...

Still, it's up to the devs to decide what we do - or even whether to do anything. They are the ones making the game, so they are the ones with all the power. It'll certainy be an interesting convo if we have it, I just hope it doesn't result in anything too...drastic. 8O

That Gavin philosophy may have worked while there wasn't any game out yet back then anyway. I'm afraid this won't work now. That we aren't makin any profits does not imply that other don't loose theirs because of us. And that's exactly what's naggin me. Look at the Treknews and Fedcon claims, it was all free, but they sue them for "fictional costs"..58.000 bucks!!


In the end, someone has to find out about the license terms if(!) the Bethesda license is as solid as I think it has to be. So either someone with internal contacts finds this out or we just live here in a very dangerous legal minefield..
To go back to the topic, back then in gavin time, there was no more or less botf2 effort from any commercial company so we are in totally different place now!

I do also think CBS will likely not be interested in us - if we don't pay the money for the license - and we will worsen the case when asking and drawing official attention towards us. This is quite a damn stuck situation we are in here..

I have a contingency plan, and I'm sure I've described it in detail *somewhere* in this forum.

But the best plan is to shut up and keep a low profile, and to absolutely not approach CBS (current Trek IP holders since the CBS-Viacom split) about using Trek content. As long as they can plausibly deny that they knew this project existed, then they can let us be. But in order to maintain the ability to protect their trademarks, they would have to actively persue a legal injunction against us.

BotF2 does not compete directly with Conquest because BotF2 runs only on PCs, and Conquest runs only on consoles.

of course you're totally right about CBS. I edit my post above.

But CBS isn't the real concern for me, the current license holders are. There is the possibility that Bethesda only didn't develop Conquest for PC because we already have a rather well-developed demo out with lots more in-depth things (diplomacy, soon intel, and so on) than they do. Theirs fit more for the console market but who knows here about the decision making process there at Bethsoft when it came to the question at which platforms conquest should run

When the game gets out, they can always argue, we stand in the way of making more profit. And then you can multiply the downloads with a fictional price..

There have been many fan based Star Trek videos (films) made and CBS Paramount has not reacted. We know that one production was even shown at the last Star Trek convention this August in Las Vegas, Nevada.

That some other company purchased the license for ST games does mean we have a second company to worry about. A company with its own approach is the unknown factor.

For my part I will continue to work on the project until such time. Damn the lawyers, Full speed ahead.

I will, however, hold off on a booth for our games at the next convention.

Well said, Admiral Kenneth .

I'm virtually certain that Bethesda abandoned the PC platform for other reasons. Anyway, BotF2 and Conquest are fundamentally different enough that they'd have a hard time proving that we had any affect on their sales, especially since our games are incomplete. Realistically, they'll have a hard enough time just breaking through to the existing BotF fans. Their biggest competition from hardcore Trek gamers comes from a decade-old game published under a legal Star Trek license.

yeah, that's kinda 100%$ true..

dumb question: can they "resell"/"republish the game again and take money for it? I doubt anyone will buy

That would imply that they already knew about us AND chose to leave us be/decided our game was better and accepted defeat - which i'd be perfectly happy to accept as an explanation.

...

There are companies that repackage and resell games - just look at Sold Out Software, for instance. It's interesting that BOTF hasn't been taken on by another company though. BOTF is currently "owned" by Atari - they've even gone to the trouble of Creating A Support Page for the game - and yet they've done nothing else with it.

As we all know, BOTF has a large community around it, but what's more important is that community is active. That's quite an achievement for a game that suffers from major programming flaws, is feeling its' age, and has required almost a decade of intense experimentation before the game could be modified to the extent that the community wanted.

...It really does make you wonder if the games' companies are blind...

Problem is that the BotF active fanbase numbers in the thousands, and games are developed for target audiences numbering in the millions (or at least hundreds of thousands). We're not strategically valuable enough.

LOL don't kid yourself, they don't even know we exist or no doubt care. why spend fees on something which bears no real impact to them in reality.

Regards Wolfe

zach21uk is/was quite active on the legacy forums and i'm sure I read something about supremacy from him there on their official boards. Also in various comments on news items of conquest being published a link to us written by some fans is to be found there. check it via google.

so I'm quite sure they know about us. If they care depends on how much they value the PC market and if we actually complete our game. Anyway I don't trust random ppl (and a company counts as that for me)..

I doubt the company's marketing department spends any time on those forums, and I doubt their developers are in any position to care (or at least have a problem with it). Chances are that by the time Supremacy is finished, Bethsoft's Star Trek license will have expired anyway. BotE is quite farther ahead, though. But we can start worrying if and when the C&D letters start rolling in.

If CBS makes me take down the project and refuses to let me use Star Trek IP, then I'll turn the game into an original one. It'd be easy enough to mod it back into BotF2 "without my knowledge or consent". I've actually considered going this route anyway, as it would be much easier to recruit additional developers if I didn't have to keep lurking in the shadows.

agreed .

sir p. is also thinkin about that option atm. we'll see what comes out of this.



I don't mean to draw black pictures on the wall nor am I dreaming that we are that much worth for anyone in the gaming business but the only thing I have some fears of my own about are (the following is strictly hypothetical!) striving companies facing legal actions from their contractors because they cannot pay them anymore after a total failure of their latest product on the market. Assume Conquest gets not sold (anyhow, let's not dwell on possible reasons, assume it as a fact just for "worst-case-scenarios"), wouldn't you think their legal departments wouldn't go and try to find and squeeze every ounce and pound out of ppl they can sue for some reasons? Even if we can't pay, they have "transfered" resp. shifted their debts to us and thereby also found a scape goat anyway. A license battle is sure worth half a million. So we might get C&D plus civil lawsuit with money demand attached simultaneously! That leaves us with no time to react then and no options to go.

Again, I just post my thoughts here. This is for serious thinking. I must say though that I run out of things to say to that matter here. I guess I leave it to the devs here what they think about it and do in the future.

bethsoft are in it for a quick buck, plus i suspect after legacy they will quite simply avoid the pc market altogather when it comes to trek gameing, the legalities are as follows, unlike treknews and fedcon who were allowing the downloads of shows which are still being aired, they may be old, but they make money, so they could quite easily say, these guys are costing us.
us on the other hand are developing games for no profit, and as bethsoft have no plans to create a tbs game for the pc they cannont claim that we have taken their buisness, they have the right to issue a c&d order, but thats it. they cannot sue for cash as we have not affected their sales, in point of fact the legacy debacle will have hurt thme far more than a fan made game ever could. if a c&c order is given all we need do is change the name of the game, use boxs for ships, and when released lo had behold, it`s modded to a trek game, no laws broken that way at all.

Damn the evil box Empire. Fire cardboard torpedo!

I will pit my Kill Clowns against your past board boxes any old light year.

My robokittens will make short work of your pathetic clowns. Wait a minute, maybe I should scrap the Star Trek theme and just go for a ridiculous joke theme.