I was reading your ideas on the Scimitar and I got struck with an idea, can the Cardasion Keldon class cloak? Maybe this is just a passing thought but the Keldon class shipps were fitted with a cloaking device from the Romulans to attack the dominion home world. Since I think the Keldon class should be the Cardassions flagship, should the concept be incorporated into botf 2? Whats your thoughts?
-Jega

Techs gonna be shareable to some extent. So if would be possable for the Cards to buy, or swap it for a real expensive deal. Then they can implement it in new designs, or refit some ships to have them, not sure how thats gonna work yet.

the cardassian flagship, or to put it another way their biggest ship will be the hutet class. it`s the best card ship i have ever seen.

Ahhhhhhh good. more things for my WarBirds to shoot at.

What about the Tech sharing, any news toward that?

Hello,
Ahhh yes, the Hutet class. You are correct, that should be the flagship. I'd just like to ask a question/make a point right now. The largest or (usually these would go together) most powerful ship per race would be the flagship. and in a new class of ship is discovered that is more powerful than the current flagship, that ship becomes the flagship. I have that right? Also I'm all for tech-sharing
-Jega

We also really have to create some really advanced Cardassian warships if they are going to be a advanced race.

The flagship is a singular vessel, not a class. The enterprise-d was still the flagship more likely than not after the prototype sovereign was launched.

I look forward to seeing the hutet.

I thought that the Hutet was a bit to big, can we just make it a bit smaller. Under the 1000 m line?

No reason why not, it's not canon anyway. It's size does imply a lack of advanced technology on the cardassians part. After all the sovereign is more powerful than a galaxy, despite being around half the volume.

But the Galaxy still looks the finest Fed ship. And your right, the Enterprise wouldnt havce been the first Sovreign so it would make snese if the soverign was aout while the flagship was then Enterprise. Its the name really, any ship caled Enterprise is the Flagship, ive never hear the other races talk about their flagships, just leaders in fleets.

In the ds9 episode 'way of the warrior', sisko sees a massive klingon ship decloaks and says "ahh the new klingon flagship" dax then says "the negh'var".

I take you like DS9 then, I hated the series, it didnt do what Trek was about, it boldly went nowhere. I know the small voyages into the delta quad, but its about the Station, Stations dont move. At lease not much

The wormhole led to the gamma quadrant!

I think ds9's refreshing not moving all the time, there's still plently going on. I also think it shoes another side to starfleet, rather than the glorious enterprise out on it's own, we see convoys, supply missions etc.

If you stopped watching ds9, I urge you to give it a go.

Now why the hell did i say Delta, so much information its all screwed up in here. Next ill be saying Voyager went to the other side off the Room, not Galaxy.

I think DS9 gave star Trek a whole new dimension that was not present in any other series, the dimension of conflict. Seeing star fleet at war and federation ships fighting in massive fleets was something that was not even close to being present in any other series. If you appreciate DS9 for what DS9 was, than it has it's charm!
-Jega

I could go into depth about why I liked ds9, I think more than anything the show was reflective and retrospective.

TNG showed earth as a paradise and humans as unfalteringly noble. DS9 showed that, and I'll quote sisko "it's easy to be a saint in paradise". Take 24th century humans off of a luxury starship with a massive apartment for each crew member and you see people coping in real surroundings (as real as a cardassian space station gets I suppose). In that setting, the faintest glimmer of nobility means 10 times more.

Jeez, that was a bit deep for this time of night.

I agree, I think it also showed that modern problems with war are still present than. People don't like war weather it's 2004 or 2400. But you have to admit watching starships fire torpedos at each other is really cool. GO CGI
-Jega

Go Defiant!

Defiant, Valient, and Defiant 2!
-Jega

i agree

i loved DS9

definitely my favorite series

with tng and voyager tied tio each other and close behind of course

its been called the "grittier"

i believe i heard marina sirtis, describe it as that wen i saw her on stage at a convention in 97

she also called it Deep Space SWINE lol



but, aswe all know the whole concept of DS9 waspretty much entirely new and very refreshing

and at least DS9 didnt change ESTABLISHSHED Trek and Starfleet history, like A CERTAIN NEW SERIES HAS

any attempts to knock my NX-01 will result in you being vapourised i think enterprise is the best trek yet so there

To begin hello Jigalypuff, long time no see. My fault not been around and able to get at the zone much anymore.
(Still think he's smarting over the Klingons tiny Bre'l Scout 2's wooping up his Far Superior Cardassian taskforce with superior agility and voracity!!)- **Good tricks learned from the recieving end taught by Captian Chao. Not my own invention. OOuuch!!**

Along those same lines and addressing the cloaking Keldon class for the Cardassians. It would be difficult IMHO for the ship to accomplish the cloaking technology successfully unless employing a much higher capacity or energy generating warp core. My entire understanding of the 'physics' behind the cloaking devices was that the warp core and power output of the entier vessel had to more or less be channeled into the cloaking devices to make them operational and sustainable. This very point alone was why the Romulans with their superior power management and secrecy surrounding the cloaking technology were the only race to really employ the device successfully for a long time. After which the other fleet commanders of their opposing races eventually realized the telltale signature signs of the light displacement or warping effects the devices made to encapsulate the ships and create the 'cloaking bubble'.
Along the technology side of the cloaking devices they should improve over time spent employed by a race to simulate the engineers learning the short comings of the devices and improving later models functionality and reliability. Earlier models might then be 'accidentally' obtained by other races through the scrapping of the older models being intercepted on there way to the scrapping yards by commercially minded entrepreneurs. Of course willing to risk their own lives in obtaining the technology.
So in conclusion the Keldon probably would need a seperate warp core to mask the sheer mass of the vessel. Combined with the Cardassian predeliction and history for conserving vital resources it would be doubtful that the subtleties of the cloaking device would be used on such a large warship meant more for intimidation than stealth and secrecy.

My first posting.

The ideas above could also be incorporated into the technology matrix meshing with the cultural develpment of a civilization over time. Each different 'major' culture developing slowly in its own direction of specialization over time slowly. New technologies built upon other pre-existing and necessary precursor technologies for the development of the next generation of newer, better, stronger, faster technologies. Some races will just be naturally more adept at certain skill sets or classes of technologies than others. Even though overtime and after much investment in time, research, and effort any race should be able eventually to employ any technology. Albiet at the sacrifice of other endeavors and paths of research.

Which brings the next point of economics.

Well I better allow this one to digest a little and get another posting out of the way with the economics posting in another area or thread.

Cheers All.

Awsric Armitage

Nice idea, Awsric_Armitage! But i think that there should be some borders when it's about technology.

ABout the NX serie, great show really. Saw the NX almost blow up, don't know if it will. But please NO SPOILERS!!! Really exciting and all that stuff, Don't care if it messed up the timeline, the hell with the timeline.

Armitage. I believe some of your theories regarding cloaking technology are in contradiction of canon star trek.

In trek, virtually any ship can be fitted with a cloaking device supposing one is available. From the enterprise-d using a cloak from the pegasus, to the cloaking cardassian keldons in the die is cast, to the most obvious example- the defiant. The defiant was certainly not built with cloaking in mind, in fact it's been stated that it's an extremely difficult to cloak effectively. The same goes for Keldons

The reason the cardassions don't have cloaking technology is that it is a closely guarded secret, and to be blunt is out of their reach technologically.
With Starfleet, they have the means, yet are treaty bound not to cloak their starships.

I always find it annoying when anyone assumes defiant class ships should have cloaks (as you see in many botf mods), or keldons should cloak just because the romulans loaned 10 or so to the obsidian order for the purpose of a single attack. Simply put, if they had the technology, it would be on all their ships.

Regarding power output, this can actually be detremental to cloaked ships, rather than helpful. The Defiant frequently had to cut main power to avoid dominion detection as it had a higher power output than such as a warbird- which the defice was likely designed for.


I really think it shouldn't be possible for anyone but the Klingons and Romulans to research cloaking. It might not be fully canon, but it retains the trek feel which this game needs.

nice to see you aswric, hows your game these days? i would have to agree that only the klings and roms get cloaking, everyone else can get tacyon detiction grids which can scan up to 2 sectors, at least then youd have some warning of an impending invasion, but the roms or klings would of course realise this and hit the grid in severl places, then you`d have no idea were they were coming from, just a hint. i honstly believe this is the best way to go.

Agreed. Fully.

Yeah, agreed.

But in the spirit of allowing the end-user the choice to customize his game experience though it might be allowable but just extremely expensive for any other races but the Klingons and Romulans to actually attain. So in end effect if you want to 'waste'' your research, money, and time to get those cloaks then go for it. You will sacrifice almost all other research avenues available for less comparable costs to make it not a very good idea to try but it but it may still be possible and just not very practicle.

Prohibitatively expensive in the longer run because of the wasted opportunity to have much more for your efforts in phasers and armor technologies. Cardassians would of course be better with phaser technologies and armor. At least that is my spin on it anyways.

Good point about the later Federation treaties but also having the technological capabilities. Probably best implemented by space and power requirements for the devices on ships employing the cloaking devices. Trade offs that make decent choices for those races inclined towards that research but not for those not so inclined or gifted in that area of research.

Ohh.. and my game must be pretty rusty as I have not had the opportunity to play since last late spring when we were meeting with the remnant clan on the zone.
I got a new computer with a DSL connection and Windows XP Professional SP2 on it so I have not even tried it yet on this machine. Must get the XP fixes and work through them and then brush up some before meeting at the zone again. I still have the Windows 98 system on a back-up hard drive in the system so even if the XP wont work(have not tried yet) I still could play with the better DSL connection speed and system specs. Should be much better for the MP games.
Just been tooo... busy lately with the new job to do much playing at all. Except of course for the PBEM Civ3 ongoing games you can play anytime one turn at a time when you get a spare moment of time to complete a single turn.
Too bad really as I miss it greatly. At least this project gives me an opportunity to contribute to the ideas for the next version under develpment.

The good thing is mate the game will be moddable to the extreme.

You'll be able to allow federation ships to cloak in your mod if you wish, just as you could in botf.

how easy will it be to create your own modules? will there be a system coded to make it easier for noobs and stuff?

Well the good thing is the game will be made for modding first and foremost.

There were things like ship editors that made botf modding easy. Gturfrey is apparently planning to have several similar things for all some aspects in the options screen!

Anything this doesn't cover will be moddable in other ways, the experienced members of this forum will be at your disposal for help and advice.