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17 billion hot earths
http://bote2.square7.ch/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4818		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Kenneth_of_Borg [ 08 Jan 2013, 00:36 ]
Post subject:  17 billion hot earths
This in from NASA
http://cosmiclog.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/07/16395770-estimate-suggests-that-our-galaxy-contains-17-billion-sizzling-hot-earths?lite
Author:  Catalin M [ 08 Jan 2013, 01:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: 17 billion hot earths
You know, the more I read about space exploration, the more convinced I am that we will probably never colonise other planets in a significant manner; over 90% of all planets are either too far or too close to their sun, gas giants or lacking a critical element, be it water, magnetic field or atmosphere. And even if we were to find a suitable planet, it would be so far away, that our spaceship would not physically and technologically withstand the journey. :cry:

And aliens, although I am sure they exist, I fear we won't meet any for a long, long time, since habitable planets are so few and far between and the ones that harbour intelligent, advanced life in the same period of our existence are likely to be out of reach. (I realise that the conditions for the evolution of life need not be the same for every species; in fact, they may vary wildly, but still the odds are against one such encounter.) :mad:

I don't mean to be a party buster... I'm just really annoyed ( :gripe: ) I wasn't born a thousand years from now, in a time when we'll have spaceships possibly advanced enough to make it to the final frontier.
Author:  Kenneth_of_Borg [ 08 Jan 2013, 03:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: 17 billion hot earths
On a lighter note here is proof that there is no intelligent life in the Universe:

From YouTube, Fun with SunBurn, the engine I am working on for Supremacy:

(Those are flying windmills from an example game on the Supremacy webpage.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_Jjxrexa5A
Author:  captain_picard [ 09 Jan 2013, 16:50 ]
Post subject:  Re: 17 billion hot earths
Catalin M wrote:
I'm just really annoyed ( :gripe: ) I wasn't born a thousand years from now, in a time when we'll have spaceships possibly advanced enough to make it to the final frontier.
I'm pretty sure that the ancient Greek astronomers & their 17th-19th century counterparts might have said the same thing: "I wish I had lived in a time when people have visited the Moon and explored the planets!" ;-)
Author:  Kenneth_of_Borg [ 12 Jan 2013, 02:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: 17 billion hot earths
and now this:
http://news.msn.com/science-technology/video?videoid=4c21428a-8ca2-4cd8-8d1e-71409ac64bdb&ap=true

KOI 172.02 or is that spelled Cardassian?
Author:  VinculumOne [ 12 Jan 2013, 11:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: 17 billion hot earths
cool :cool:
sad we can't take a look to see what's there
Author:  captain_picard [ 12 Jan 2013, 20:23 ]
Post subject:  Re: 17 billion hot earths
VinculumOne wrote:
cool :cool:
sad we can't take a look to see what's there
Even travelling on warp speed would take a long time to get there. Apparently the star is ~1040 ly away, so it would take about a year on warp 8 and ~50 days on warp 9.99 to get a ship there :(

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KOI_172.02
Author:  Happytrek [ 12 Jan 2013, 20:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: 17 billion hot earths
I believe It might happen one day, although we or our children won't see it yet.

Faster than light? Not really but...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09/18/nasa_eagleworks_warp_drive/

Or is it?
Author:  Catalin M [ 12 Jan 2013, 20:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: 17 billion hot earths
captain_picard wrote:
Even travelling on warp speed would take a long time to get there. Apparently the star is ~1040 ly away, so it would take about a year on warp 8 and ~50 days on warp 9.99 to get a ship there :(

I wouldn't mind a two month trip at warp 9.9 (provided the engines can take it around the clock), but there are always other solutions: Q, the Traveller, Kes or the Borg could lend a hand in getting you there faster. :wink:
Author:  vjeko1701 [ 13 Jan 2013, 12:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: 17 billion hot earths
Unfortunately Warp 10 is not the same here as in Star Trek, here it refers to the multiplication factor of the speed of light, that means ten times the speed of light, while in Star Trek the factor is computed from a more complex formula.

Be it warp 10 or not I call dibs on the position of chief engineer of Humanity's first FTL space exploration ship.
Author:  captain_picard [ 13 Jan 2013, 14:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: 17 billion hot earths
Well, I used a more complex formula for the examples I mentioned, based on a fit of actual values I found a long time ago on the wikis and elsewhere. So, my values are as "realistic" as possible (=in line with the series).

Read the spoiler below at your own risk :P
Spoiler: show
The data are the following (warp factor "w" vs "beta" (=Enterprise speed/speed of light in physics)):

{{1, 1}, {2, 10.079}, {3, 38.941}, {4, 101.59}, {5, 213.75}, {6, 392.5}, {7, 656.13}, {8, 1024}, {9, 1516.4}, {9.2, 1649}, {9.6, 1909}, {9.9, 3053}, {9.9753, 6000}, {9.99, 7912}, {9.9999, 199516}};

Some references may be found here:
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Warp_scale

Eg, warp 5 is 213.75 times the speed of light and so on (or w=5 ->beta=213.75) and obviously w->10 =>beta->infinity (as expected). Then, I fitted this data to a function with parameters a,b:

beta[w_, a_, b_] := w^a Exp[b (1/(10 - w) - 1/9)], where "w" is the warp factor. The best fit was {a -> 3.3303, b -> 0.0127426}

Clearly, the function asymptotes as desired at w->10.

BTW, I remember that one of the Trek manuals (not 100% sure which) mentions this function:
beta[w_] := w^3.4 Exp[0.22 (1/(10 - w) - 1/9)], which is where I based mine! So, as you see the warp factors mentioned are "accurate", ie the same here as in Star Trek :twistedlaugh: :vulcan:
Author:  vjeko1701 [ 14 Jan 2013, 11:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: 17 billion hot earths
Ok, so we'll apply for crew positions then :D
Author:  captain_picard [ 14 Jan 2013, 17:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: 17 billion hot earths
Given my science background, I call dibs for Chief Engineer :lol:
Author:  vjeko1701 [ 14 Jan 2013, 17:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: 17 billion hot earths
captain_picard wrote:
Given my science background, I call dibs for Chief Engineer :lol:


Already called it

vjeko1701 wrote:
Be it warp 10 or not I call dibs on the position of chief engineer of Humanity's first FTL space exploration ship.


But if you insist I guess I could be happy as captain, just call me sir from now on :D :D :D :D
Author:  captain_picard [ 14 Jan 2013, 19:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: 17 billion hot earths
Damn, you got me there chief engineer Vjeko ;-)

OK then, I call dibs for science officer (Spock's or Data's job) :love:
Author:  vjeko1701 [ 14 Jan 2013, 19:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: 17 billion hot earths
captain_picard wrote:
Damn, you got me there chief engineer Vjeko ;-)

OK then, I call dibs for science officer (Spock's or Data's job) :love:


It was logical since I'm in engineering college :D

So, suddenly you outrank me, aye aye sir :P
Author:  captain_picard [ 14 Jan 2013, 20:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: 17 billion hot earths
vjeko1701 wrote:
It was logical since I'm in engineering college :D
...and I'm in physics. Quite logical indeed if you put it that way :vulcan:

vjeko1701 wrote:
So, suddenly you outrank me, aye aye sir :P
Well, both La Forge and Data were lieutenant commanders around the 4th TNG season, so we would be equals in rank :winkthumb:
Author:  vjeko1701 [ 14 Jan 2013, 20:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: 17 billion hot earths
captain_picard wrote:
vjeko1701 wrote:
It was logical since I'm in engineering college :D
...and I'm in physics. Quite logical indeed if you put it that way :vulcan:

vjeko1701 wrote:
So, suddenly you outrank me, aye aye sir :P
Well, both La Forge and Data were lieutenant commanders around the 4th TNG season, so we would be equals in rank :winkthumb:


Yeah, but Spock was Commander and first officer, so that entire science position isn't defined by rank. I'm more of a Scotty type engineer, European, accent, and my type of Croatian (Zagorci, a regional classification) are famous for alcohol production/consumption and tolerance, bhahaha
Author:  Matress_of_evil [ 14 Jan 2013, 20:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: 17 billion hot earths
I heard about this on BBC news, they made quite a fuss over it on both the 6pm and 9pm bulletins. I didn't see if ITV mentioned it though. I usually only watch BBC news.

captain_picard wrote:
Read the spoiler below at your own risk :P
Spoiler: show
The data are the following (warp factor "w" vs "beta" (=Enterprise speed/speed of light in physics)):

{{1, 1}, {2, 10.079}, {3, 38.941}, {4, 101.59}, {5, 213.75}, {6, 392.5}, {7, 656.13}, {8, 1024}, {9, 1516.4}, {9.2, 1649}, {9.6, 1909}, {9.9, 3053}, {9.9753, 6000}, {9.99, 7912}, {9.9999, 199516}};

Some references may be found here:
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Warp_scale

Eg, warp 5 is 213.75 times the speed of light and so on (or w=5 ->beta=213.75) and obviously w->10 =>beta->infinity (as expected). Then, I fitted this data to a function with parameters a,b:

beta[w_, a_, b_] := w^a Exp[b (1/(10 - w) - 1/9)], where "w" is the warp factor. The best fit was {a -> 3.3303, b -> 0.0127426}

Clearly, the function asymptotes as desired at w->10.

BTW, I remember that one of the Trek manuals (not 100% sure which) mentions this function:
beta[w_] := w^3.4 Exp[0.22 (1/(10 - w) - 1/9)], which is where I based mine! So, as you see the warp factors mentioned are "accurate", ie the same here as in Star Trek :twistedlaugh: :vulcan:
*Brain melts*
Author:  Happytrek [ 14 Jan 2013, 21:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: 17 billion hot earths
Might as well call dibs for Mess officer, cook and (maybe) diplomatic "amuser", since I've got music recipes. How's that? :grin: :hmm:
Author:  vjeko1701 [ 14 Jan 2013, 22:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: 17 billion hot earths
Welcome aboard.
Author:  Happytrek [ 14 Jan 2013, 23:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: 17 billion hot earths
Thank you sir!
Author:  Catalin M [ 15 Jan 2013, 00:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: 17 billion hot earths
Don't be fightin' over them ranks! There are more than ONE chief something on a ship, for when the one played by a main actor was off-duty. On the Enterprise-D, they had several chief engineers and chief medical officers (you can tell from the dialogues). In this case, I'd be invaluable on the ship, since science, psychology and cooking are among my passions. Add to those hundreds of hours of Need for Speed "experience" and a degree in linguistics, I'd be eligible for a number of positions, like science officer, counselor, chef, helm officer and communications officer. :grin: :lol: :wink:
Author:  VinculumOne [ 15 Jan 2013, 00:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: 17 billion hot earths
so where is that ship gonna head?
I rather expect once we have the technology we'll first send cheap drones to check it out and then rather all keep home and enjoy with instant transmission via quantum mechanics which is already known to work faster than light.
We probably will feel being there for real with computers adapted to our brains and feel no need to raise a single fingertip.
Author:  vjeko1701 [ 15 Jan 2013, 00:23 ]
Post subject:  Re: 17 billion hot earths
I believe our first mission will be to visit Proxima....
Author:  VinculumOne [ 15 Jan 2013, 01:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: 17 billion hot earths
lol a bit dark over there
Author:  captain_picard [ 15 Jan 2013, 13:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: 17 billion hot earths
VinculumOne wrote:
instant transmission via quantum mechanics which is already known to work faster than light.
Not true neither in real life nor in Trek. Starfleet uses subspace communications which make use of higher dimensional spaces.

Spoiler: show
In real life, entanglement (what you refer to probably) does not transfer information faster than light, it only changes the quantum states. In order to read that change you are still limited by the speed of light, hence no paradox :vulcan:


vjeko1701 wrote:
I believe our first mission will be to visit Proxima....
Agreed. However, we need to find a captain first. Kenneth or Matress are you interested? Mike will be the Admiral :lol:

By the way, some time ago I was playing in a Trek-RPG-via-email game for about a year. We had to take turns and write short stories about our characters taking into account what the others had written of course. One man stunts (eg single-handedly destroying the Borg etc) were forbidden. I graduated from the Academy and then joined the USS Akagi if I recall. It was really fun :cool:
Author:  Kenneth_of_Borg [ 15 Jan 2013, 14:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: 17 billion hot earths
captain_picard wrote:
VinculumOne wrote:
instant transmission via quantum mechanics which is already known to work faster than light.
Not true neither in real life nor in Trek. Starfleet uses subspace communications which make use of higher dimensional spaces.

Spoiler: show
In real life, entanglement (what you refer to probably) does not transfer information faster than light, it only changes the quantum states. In order to read that change you are still limited by the speed of light, hence no paradox :vulcan:


vjeko1701 wrote:
I believe our first mission will be to visit Proxima....
Agreed. However, we need to find a captain first. Kenneth or Matress are you interested? Mike will be the Admiral :lol:

By the way, some time ago I was playing in a Trek-RPG-via-email game for about a year. We had to take turns and write short stories about our characters taking into account what the others had written of course. One man stunts (eg single-handedly destroying the Borg etc) were forbidden. I graduated from the Academy and then joined the USS Akagi if I recall. It was really fun :cool:



OK then but first I have to single-handedly destroy the Borg etc. (Similar to coding a combat engine without using Unity.)
Author:  vjeko1701 [ 15 Jan 2013, 14:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: 17 billion hot earths
We also need a first officer and a conn officer....
Author:  VinculumOne [ 15 Jan 2013, 15:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: 17 billion hot earths
captain_picard wrote:
VinculumOne wrote:
instant transmission via quantum mechanics which is already known to work faster than light.
Not true neither in real life nor in Trek. Starfleet uses subspace communications which make use of higher dimensional spaces.

Spoiler: show
In real life, entanglement (what you refer to probably) does not transfer information faster than light, it only changes the quantum states. In order to read that change you are still limited by the speed of light, hence no paradox :vulcan:

Ok well then we need another method, but research on such quantum effects is still at it's youth so maybe we just need to wait a bit more to get it uncovered. At least I rather expect faster than light communication than travel. :wink:
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