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| Just how large is the federation? http://bote2.square7.ch/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=504 |
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| Author: | tielee [ 30 Jun 2005, 04:13 ] |
| Post subject: | Just how large is the federation? |
Ok, here is one to stump you guys. Based on only the information from the tv shows of star trek, just how many planets are there in the federation? Bonus points if someone can name them all 
Tielee P.S. Ill answer this question in a few days with the info, im in the process of looking it up myself 
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| Author: | Jarok [ 30 Jun 2005, 07:32 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just how large is the federation? |
In ST:FC, Picard states that there are 'almost 150' planets within the Federation. The question, though, is whether he meant 150 member planets, total, or 150 member races, which would fit nicely if you extrapolate from the Federation Council scenes in the TOS movies. If the latter is true, then Picard meant there are 150 member races, and did not count colonies, outposts, and protectorates. If this is true, the number could be much higher. If each race had an average of 5 interstellar colonies, then we have at least 750 inhabited star systems. Alternately, these colonies could all be other inhabitable planets within each member's local area, even within their home system. But that would still be 750+ planets. If Picard was being absolutely literal, then he meant each and every single planet with the Federation flag on it added up to 150, total. But in this case, why were humans not disproportionately represented on the Federation Council scenes in ST:IV? (the Starfleet Officers don't count, only the Councillors.) There should then be representatives from Earth, Mars, and every Earth colony, and many fewer races represented. I personally think Picard meant 150 member races, an assessment that several non canon sources support. But since we can't rely on the non canon, and I personally don't like using it, I tend to discount it as evidence. If Picard means races rather than total planets though, there could be many, many inhabited worlds in the Federation..... |
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| Author: | SonOfMogh [ 30 Jun 2005, 09:08 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just how large is the federation? |
Captain Kirk told Cochrane in a TOS episode that they were "on a thousand planets and expanding rapidly", althouh it wasn't clear if he meant the Federation or Humans, or if he was exaggerating. Either way I firmly believe Picard meant 150 races. There are dozens of canon human colonies to 150 planets in all wouldn't allow much for Trill, Vulcan, Andorian colonies. The number of actual systems occupied is probably around 1000 or more, with many more than that lying within Federation space. You'll never name them all as there is no comprehensive list. The writers leave exact figures out so they can make up new colonies for new story possibilities. |
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| Author: | xir_ [ 30 Jun 2005, 15:08 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just how large is the federation? |
i've always wanted a detailed map of the trek world to get an idea of the relative size of race empires |
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| Author: | SonOfMogh [ 30 Jun 2005, 15:29 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just how large is the federation? |
Your avatar rocks. |
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| Author: | The_Logical_Man [ 30 Jun 2005, 15:34 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just how large is the federation? |
Indeed, that is a nice avatar! A think the best bet for a map of the star trek universe is in this book, http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0743437705/qid=1120141696/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-9819573-4678329?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 I have read it has the path of Voyager wrong, but I dont think it matters too much!
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| Author: | Matress_of_evil [ 30 Jun 2005, 16:14 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just how large is the federation? |
Yeah, that new avatar does rock xir_! I haven't got the Star Charts myself, but I do know someone who has. I remember him saying something to the effect of the path that Voyager took as being wrong, but he never showed me. The book is full of pull-out maps (So it can be a bit fiddly to look at and could be easily damaged) but they are very comprehensive. It focuses on key areas, as well as having more general maps, so if you have the money, i'd definitely recommend it. Of course, if it has the path of Voyager wrong, then there could be other mistakes in it as well... 8O 
... The answer to the title of this thread...haven't got a clue! 
To be honest, I haven't seen any Trek (Other than Enterprise) in a very long time.  (Damn Terrestrial TV)
I do remember a quote from TOS that there were 100 member worlds though - like I said though, haven't seen any Trek in a good while, so my memory is a bit fuzzy...and i'm likely wrong. 
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| Author: | DanielClaton [ 01 Jul 2005, 11:24 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just how large is the federation? |
THIS IS A WARNING! Do not buy this Star Trek book. The maps are are very fictive. There are too few Starbases and outposts and I cannot believe that the Romulan Empire would allow the Federation sorrounding them! There are many more mistakes than that. |
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| Author: | SonOfMogh [ 01 Jul 2005, 11:56 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just how large is the federation? |
DanielClaton wrote: THIS IS A WARNING! Do not buy this Star Trek book. The maps are are very fictive. There are too few Starbases and outposts and I cannot believe that the Romulan Empire would allow the Federation sorrounding them! There are many more mistakes than that. He's right, it's not a bad extrapolation, but quite flawed in places. It also assumes the Klingon Empire is about 3 times the size of the Romulans. Poor Rommies, even the Tholians and Gorn have more space. |
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| Author: | Matress_of_evil [ 01 Jul 2005, 12:01 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just how large is the federation? |
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My spies have done it again!
Romulan space is most definitely as small as it says... (So you think) ... The charts are still worth checking out, even if there are mistakes. I doubt there will ever be any source material for Trek that is absolutely 100% correct/canon (Of course unless it is in a film or episode...)
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| Author: | The_Logical_Man [ 01 Jul 2005, 12:08 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just how large is the federation? |
I think the lack of Romulan space is probebly correct. They never really had a large expansion, the last time they tried was against Earth, they were beaten back behind the neutral zone, where as the Klingons went around conquering and the Federation was formed and started exploring. All attempts the Romulans made at conquests failed, thus they are resigned to a relatively small region of space where they can reflect on their mistakes. Foolish Romulans 
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| Author: | Mark_campbell [ 01 Jul 2005, 15:16 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just how large is the federation? |
i have no idea how to calculate warp speed or anything so i could never be sure just how large the federation is. From episodes i gather that romulus, q'onos and earth and ds9/ cardassia are relativly close together, its between 3/4 days between the two furthest away points (cardassia and q'onos i think) according to episodes, maybe a week at maximum warp. However ive heard that cestus 3 is 8 weeks away from ds9 at maximum warp. So i reckon that the core of the federation (the important planets) is the same size as the romulan star empire and the cardassian union are supposed to be. When the dominion took betazed (a planet picard visited rather willy nilly, indicating its in the core of the federation) they were within stiking distance of alpha centurai, only 2 light years from earth i think. Same happened going back the way, federation took chintoka, and were basically within distance of ending the war, ds9 is only a day away from cardassia prime too. So i would suggest that the part of the federation were all familiar with is in fact no bigger than any other empire around it. There must be a big bulge of colonies going away from the other empires however, this bulge being maybe twice the size of the core, and because there is no threats to this place its doesnt require thousands of ships and bases to look after it. I reckon the other powers have a similar exapansion away from this core Just imagine them like the countries of europe, all crammed together and these colonies like continent sized, pretty much out of harms way. |
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| Author: | Matress_of_evil [ 01 Jul 2005, 18:37 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just how large is the federation? |
The_Logical_Man, what about in the other direction? We don't really know how the Romulans have expanded away from the Federation. It could be that during the 70-year period of isolationism, the Romulans decided to expand in that direction instead, so that when they were to finally meet, their Empire would be considerably larger than the Federation would expect... Without canon sources, we'll never know though.
... I found this map on Ex Astris Scientia. The Alpha-Quad powers are pretty aquashed up, so it's hard to see them, but it goves you a perspective in relation to the entire Galaxy. The Core of the Federation is in solid blue, and the striped blue area is all the colonies and newly-member worlds. Like I said though, it's a bit squashed up so hard to see. *Edit have to link to it instead, they can't afford the traffic costs! *
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/galactic-map.jpg |
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| Author: | Winterhawk [ 02 Jul 2005, 06:02 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just how large is the federation? |
From what I gathered over the years, Romulans had 40 systems total, However following canon, that is never verified. I picked this up over the last 3 days as my cable stations are running ST marathons on 4 stations until July 4th. I've been watching and watching.. Yee Haa!!!
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| Author: | Overlord [ 02 Jul 2005, 11:09 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just how large is the federation? |
Here is a good map: 
Better quality: http://www.overlords-from-hell.de/alpha ... drant2.jpg (1,03MB) |
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| Author: | SCREAM [ 02 Jul 2005, 11:56 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just how large is the federation? |
http://www.coldnorth.com/owen/game/star ... iangle.gif ........................................................... found this cool picture. http://www.xs4all.nl/~dassel/wall/warbirds.jpg |
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| Author: | Winterhawk [ 03 Jul 2005, 00:07 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just how large is the federation? |
Interesting picture. I had frogotten all about the Gorn. would be cool if it showed more planets though. Thanks though. |
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| Author: | colione [ 03 Jul 2005, 03:18 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just how large is the federation? |
what happened to the cards? |
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| Author: | ftranschel [ 03 Jul 2005, 11:03 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just how large is the federation? |
colione wrote: what happened to the cards? They are actually located "on the other edge" of federation. |
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| Author: | Matress_of_evil [ 03 Jul 2005, 11:53 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just how large is the federation? |
Whilst most of the maps that we find are fanboy made, (Considering even the maps from books aren't considered canon) I think Overlord's map is probably the most accurate and concise shown yet. (It's the coolest anyway)
From most of the maps that I have seen though, it seems that the map that SCREAM has posted needs to be rotated 90 degrees anti-clockwise, and the Gorn are in the wrong place. Anyone else found any good maps out there? 
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| Author: | SCREAM [ 03 Jul 2005, 13:27 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just how large is the federation? |
Not much detail on this map with other races. http://www.netmoon.com/startrek/image/galaxy.jpg this one looks good. http://www.st-minutiae.com/misc/restora ... before.jpg A Pre-Federation galactic map. http://www.st-minutiae.com/academy/hist ... ap_8_3.jpg Someone made these. http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/ficti ... y-map1.gif http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/ficti ... y-map2.gif and this http://www.startrekunity.com/images/pro ... al_map.jpg got all these on Google search |
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| Author: | xir_ [ 04 Jul 2005, 12:37 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just how large is the federation? |
thanks for the kind words about the avatar, i thought it was time to revive it. overlords map seems quite good, but i thought trill was a federation member no? (its between the cardasssian union and the federation) |
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| Author: | Matress_of_evil [ 04 Jul 2005, 14:22 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just how large is the federation? |
I thought Trill was a member as well, but that isn't the only map that i've seen that shows trill as being outside of the Federation. I honestly don't know if this is because Trill really isn't a member, or if it's just a common misconception though.
... After you changed your avatar xir_, I thought i'd have a go as well. It's currently a...work in progress though... 
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| Author: | xir_ [ 06 Jul 2005, 00:56 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just how large is the federation? |
i like it, very cool, u should create one with a warbird bringing the smack down onto a fed ship. Use bridge commander to get the fight sequence right and just record it. |
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| Author: | Winterhawk [ 06 Jul 2005, 04:45 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just how large is the federation? |
Xir think you could create one for me with a battle crusier? |
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| Author: | Matress_of_evil [ 06 Jul 2005, 11:14 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just how large is the federation? |
I haven't got Bridge Commander!!!
I suppose I could use Starfleet Command to do it though...
The program that I used to make my avatar is only on a 30-day trial as well...I guess i'll have to buy Bridge Commander quickly! 
What's it like as a game, anyway?
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| Author: | xir_ [ 06 Jul 2005, 14:27 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just how large is the federation? |
its an excellent game, very adaptable, u do need to get some mods for it though, then u'll see its real potential. i havent got bc installed on this machine at the moment. i might reinstall it at a leter date though. i miss taking out fleets with my defiant. |
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| Author: | SCREAM [ 06 Jul 2005, 17:45 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just how large is the federation? |
Playing BC with the Dominion Mod installed having large fleet action is fun but sometimes got alittle laggy at times
Defiant > anything else
Xir, Wouldnt you love to have seen the whole battle with the borg from First Contact which started at the Typhon sector and had something like 500 starfleet ships.
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| Author: | The_Logical_Man [ 06 Jul 2005, 19:26 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just how large is the federation? |
500 ships? Is there a canon reference for this? The only reference I can find to that number comes from Wikipedia, hardly a reliable resource! |
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| Author: | SCREAM [ 06 Jul 2005, 20:45 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Just how large is the federation? |
Got it from here http://www.ditl.org/ It's just speculation but the feds 41 (Enterprise D was the 42nd ship) ships got raped so i'm sure they sent wave apon wave against it right upto Sector 001 when the Defiant was still giving it some beats
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