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My latest game ... You Make The Call!
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Author:  northtexan95 [ 16 Jul 2005, 23:53 ]
Post subject:  My latest game ... You Make The Call!
My lastest game as the Feds has me in quite a pickle. So I'm going to post the information and let this forum "Make The Call". Feel free to post any idea, comments, or questions.

Details:
Major Race: Federation
Minor Races: Many
Difficutly: Impossible (“a little bit harder� would have been more appropriate)
Random Events: On
Galaxy Shape: Irregular
Galaxy Size: Large.
Starting Level: Feds - 2, all other Empires - 3
Mod: Dafedz’s ultimate mod 2.0.0 patch 1
Other: Ferengi have once again been set with very high ship and maintenance costs.

LINK: http://quealy.net/stuff.htm

Up Till Now
The Feds are in the SW corner of the map, completely blocked in by the Klingons, Ferengi, and the Romulans. All three of these empires are very friendly with each other and all of them hate the Federation (unprovoked though). There is natural empty space giving each empire buffer room from the others. For some reason they all want to pick on me. And somewhere .. out there ... the Cardassians are lurking.

Let's look closer at each Empire.

Klingons: The first empire to actually contact the Federation as both were after the Darius system (farthest Fed Starbase to the left). The Fed wanted ths system as a natural defensive point but for some reason the Klingons did also. After a few small battles with the Feds (which went poorly for the Klingons) the Klingons did build an outpost two sectors down fron Darius and had a huge fleet (over twenty ships) which was twice as big as the Federation fleet at the time. Unfortuantely, they chose to divide their forces and were wiped out in two seperate battles near Darius. They have currently retreated to rebuild their forces.

It's kinda surprising the Klingons haven't expanded since first contact. Perhaps they have bumped into the Cardies?

Ferengi: The second empire to meet the Fed's, I was shocked to find their empire so large considering how I've made their fleet so expensive to build and maintain. But they do have five minors (explaining why I've met so few) and I know that Kheifka is uninhabited eventhrough it's in their space.

They have made some threats towards the Feds but have only sent one Raider into Fed space which quickly retreated. They are currently not a military threat which may be helping them. They are a non-threating empire buffering all the empires from each other. They are very friendly with the Rommies and the Klingons though they hate the Feds.

Romulans: They are the last of the known empires to make official first contact with the Fed's eventhough the Feds knew where they were before they knew where the other were. To explain, the Feds made contact wit the Xindi early on but of course they hated the Feds. Before the Feds could explore north of the Xindi they received a report that the Xindi had delcared ware on the Romulans. Now knowing the Romulans were somewhere above their northern border the Feds setup outposts (now Star Bases) to form a defensive perimeter and explored elsewhere.

The Fed's were very hesitant to explore beyond this self-imposed border, wanting to put off first contact with the Romulans for as long as possible. In fact, the Feds were friendly with Andor for a long time as they expected the Romulans to soon capture them. Instead, after many turns the benefits of having Andor into the fold was greater than not. The Fed's brought them and Parada into the Federation, making first contact with the Romulans a few turns later near Andor. The Federation did make contact with Betazed before the Romulans but never entered into diplomatic negotiations for fear it would be a hot spot which could lead to war (sounds familiar?). Shortly after that the Romulans did in fact conquere Betazed.

The Romulans were initially friendly with the Federation but now hates them with a passion. The stats show them with the smallest fleet but they have used it well. They initally feinted an attack on Andor and then quietly moved their fleet to attack Major at the far end of the galaxy near Xindi. They brough a huge fleet and besieged the planet. Unfortunately for the Romulans, the Majorians fought bravely until a Federation fleet could arrive to relieve them. The Romulans fell pray to the same failed tactics as the Klingons. Though having the larger force they divided, allowing the Federation to wipe them out in two seperate battles.

Since then they have been rebuilding and continually probing the Federation scanners with incursions in and out of the Neutral Zone. It is now evident that the reason for the Romulans belated first contact was they were busing conquering what laid to the north of them. Now there is but a few systems to their west which may be open to them.

Current Situation
As you can see from the pics, the Feds are completely locked in, have three empires angry at them (though the Ferengi have been unable to back that up militarily), have little cash, and a negative cash flow. While the Feds are the 800 pound guerilla in terms of economy and military strength, they have been unable to distance themselves scientifically. The people are "Pleased", though.

My current fleet: 48 Galaxy's, 6 Constitutions, 3 Oberths, 2 Troops, and 3 colony ships.

Above I listed the various battle with the Klingons and Romulans. While I was able to wipe out their fleets, these attacks came within a 20 turn span with the Klingons attacking one edge of the Federation and the Romulans attacking the other far edge. It required pumping out lots of Galaxy's at the cost of research and intel. If things had gone differently it could have been the Federation's fleets who were destroyed. Fighting on two fronts (one huge front with the Romulans) is not a receipe for success.

I have just reached the level to build Star Bases. I no longer have the funds to continue popping out Galaxy class ships. In a few turns my science will increase to the point where I'll have Galaxy (Command II) ships and my Constitutions will morph into Ambassador's. Akira's will also shortly become available but the it'll be awhile before the next evolution of Fed ships will be available.

(Since I have just maxed out my fleet I'll be able to convert some of my Minor races to pure Research to decrease the time until the next group of ships are available.)

Now What To Do - YOU MAKE THE CALL
You now have all the information you need. What should the Federation do now?

1. Hold the lines. Many of the once uninhabited systems in the Federation are very large (400+ population). Hold of the enemy, build up your systems, and wait until the next level of ships. Wait and see if the Cardies can relieve some pressure but entrouching on the backsides of the other empires.

2. Stay mildly aggressive. Since the Ferengi are so weak, grab some of their systems. Expand at their expanse to bring more systems and resouces into the Federation allowing the Feds to add to their fleets. Meanwhile, simply hold off the Klingons and Romulans. Continue to seek diplomatic relations with them. You cannot continue to fight on so many borders.

3. Seek out battle with the Klingons and Romulans to keep their forces in check. Take the battle to them which will allow you to focus your fleet in one system and bring the enemies's fleet to the same system (instead of laying back and trying to maintain a long border). Grab some Ferengi systems while you are at it. Force the other empires to ask for peace.

4. Any other ideas?
Author:  omniq [ 17 Jul 2005, 00:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: My latest game ... You Make The Call!
I'd go with two-almost no military victory has come from one nation fighting a multi-frontal war. Don't rely on the Cardies to relieve pressure, they usually backstab the Feds and align with any other race (although i have seen many conflicts with the Romulans, perhaps use that as a slight advantage) If you can, try to pressure another race to aid you against the Ferengi, probably the Klingons, as they have the largest fleet (using multi-fronts against an enemy is key to victory), although the AI usually hunkers together it's races, so this may not be possible (but you can always hope)

also use each oberth as a pre-invasion scout ship, protected by 2 connies, then move in the bigger forces. The oberth-connie combo can also at times be used to move enemy forces to other systems, allowing an ambush (although rare, the AI isn't usually that stupid, but i've seen it)

after striking the ferengi, make a base and try to find and appease the cardies, even temporary help is help.

i would also suggest IMMEDIATE colonization of Makus, near Betazed

hope this can help at all
Author:  Winterhawk [ 17 Jul 2005, 01:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: My latest game ... You Make The Call!
Wow!

Your in a pickle all right. Set up a semi defensive mode on both borders, I.e. enough to keep both Rom's and Kling's somewhat at bay. Also Try to set up a false front (for the roms and kling's to see that you plan to attack the Ferengi. send them offers of aillance against the Ferengi to both.

I agree The klingons will most likley bite first. Keep a scout watching thier fleet movements tracking them so to speak. Then when They have moved enough spaces away take your force and do a quick hit against thier bases and try to take any planets if they are close by. Oh yes have a couple transports with you as you move forward.

On a note I have been pickled by all 4 before, So I took a chance and did kinda like I said, then attacked the ones who were left open.. To my surprise it actually worked. I agree fighting a 2 or 3 front war is nuts, but At times if your movements are just right, you can gain from it.. Just dont try to do it too often...
Author:  northtexan95 [ 17 Jul 2005, 03:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: My latest game ... You Make The Call!
I've updated the link to include a pic of the Relationships Summary. It is showing the Cardassians at war with the Ferengi and neutral with the Klingons. Interesting.

OmniQ - Your right about not trusting the Cardies. They will stab anyone in the back. But if they are attacking someone from the rear then that will releve pressure from my front. That is what I'm talking about.

Winterhawk - remember, I'm the Feds. I can't just declare war on someone. They need to declare on me (so I can't ask someone to join me in a war against Cardassia. I also can't make a treaty with the Klingons and then attack them in the rear.

BTW ... the reason why I have so little cash is I sent a ton of money to the Rommies and Klingons hoping for a peace treaty but to no avail. If I made a gift they would take the money but it never changed how much they hated me so I'm no longer going to subsidize them.

So what do I do? I'm looking at three possibilites. I would love to go grab some Romulan sectors but once you wade in there there's no stoping. There's no real nice point to form a defensive line. Second possibility is to go all our against the Klingons. Of their 10 systems, two are above the Ferengi space and another is distanced from the other seven. I could quickly take out the two closest systems. I could remove them as power. The negative is that their three largest systems are the three farthest away at the bottom. Lastly, taking some Ferengi space. While not as potiential devisive as the other two options, there is some good territory to grab.

The more I think about it the more I like going after the Klingons. It would be the most decisive with the fewest systems to take. I've got a few days before I'll get back to this game. So if anyone has anymore thoughts then just let me know what you think.
Author:  FoxURA [ 17 Jul 2005, 05:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: My latest game ... You Make The Call!
If you want war with a power, try asking for mone and territory every turn... That should get them angry enough to want to kill you in no time.
Author:  Mark_campbell [ 17 Jul 2005, 08:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: My latest game ... You Make The Call!
i`d say attack the klingons they are the weakest and by the looks of the map dealing with cardassians. You can attack the ferengi as easily however that border is well protected and wont take too much hassle if you swing west. Take Kurl and theta, then you should meet the cardies. Impress them with intel hits on the klingons and get a quick non-agression treaty. Now just get the biggest systems as fast as your morale will allow it. When the Empire falls you and the cardassians should be quite cosy and your morale will get a big boost from putting the klingons out of the game. Now just ask for a war pact against the ferengi and take those systems. Im not worried too much about counterattacks, the romulan ai is generally indecisive and the ferengi mostly just raid, you can keep them at bay
Author:  Winterhawk [ 17 Jul 2005, 09:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: My latest game ... You Make The Call!
Hmmm. Problem being once you open a dialog with Cardi's they hammer you with thier intel. One way I get klingons happy is to hit like anyone else with heavy intel. They seem to really like that sort of thing... well that and money of course.. but as you say you gave them more then enough already....

Looks like another starbase by Kefka whould be a good jumping off point.. to. I like Foxes approach also..... Sence a bit of Klingon blood in him... lol

could be an interesting project.... either way..
Author:  FoxURA [ 18 Jul 2005, 02:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: My latest game ... You Make The Call!
Nah... Klingons are too quick to rush into things... I am a bit more of a renegade when it comes to this game... I don't play any of the races in the way you might expect. For example, unless I don't have enough forces to suit what I have planned, I save the Federations diplomacy budget for the minors, and my ships for the majors. :lol: :lol:

Besides, when playing as other races, the Federation has driven me to war with them before and other times to simply ignore them and let relations plumit.


Oddly enough, I tried rejecting the Federations demands every turn since contact and before 20 turns had passed... Thay asked to by my allies... With absolutely no money being exchanged...
Author:  colione [ 18 Jul 2005, 04:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: My latest game ... You Make The Call!
Dude.. Get rid of some of the galaxy's and get some other less expensive ships. You could get two ships to one galaxy in terms of maintanence each turn, and they will get around faster.

Send in a fast fleet to strike the klingons, then get out without attacking a system, just go after the ships. That will piss them off and make them declare war on you. Then you'd be open to obliterate them without upsetting the population :)

let us know how it turns out....
Author:  northtexan95 [ 26 Jul 2005, 03:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: My latest game ... You Make The Call!
I seem to get really bored with a game one it's inevitable that I'm going to win. In this game I decided to take out the Klingons. Wiped them out in several big battles. I spanked the Romulans in a few battles and they never showed their face again. The Cardassians proved to be very soft. The Ferengi had no muscle.

Basically, once the main Romulan and Klingon fleets were defeated the game was over -- it turned into a mopup game.
Author:  northtexan95 [ 29 Jul 2005, 17:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: My latest game ... You Make The Call!
colione wrote:
Dude.. Get rid of some of the galaxy's and get some other less expensive ships. You could get two ships to one galaxy in terms of maintanence each turn, and they will get around faster.

Send in a fast fleet to strike the klingons, then get out without attacking a system, just go after the ships. That will piss them off and make them declare war on you. Then you'd be open to obliterate them without upsetting the population :)

let us know how it turns out....


I could have two smaller ships for one Galaxy but those smaller ships get destroyed more than twice as fast. Anything less than a Galaxy just can't stand up in a fire fight.
Author:  TrekBoyChris [ 29 Jul 2005, 19:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: My latest game ... You Make The Call!
northtexan95 wrote:
I could have two smaller ships for one Galaxy but those smaller ships get destroyed more than twice as fast. Anything less than a Galaxy just can't stand up in a fire fight.


You're right, though i did once destroy a Outpost II with 9 Oberth I's :D
Author:  Winterhawk [ 29 Jul 2005, 23:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: My latest game ... You Make The Call!
All this is well and good for a modded game. I do not play modded, so a lot of whats here is a bit futile. So far i am actually winning a game as the Federation. I'm level 5 all other races level 1. Going to work my way down to everyone at level 1, impossable mode, NO minors, no Mods. Then go for the throat. lol

As I can respect Federation players, how you all actually win a game without being modded or 4 levels higher is beyond my thinking. So far in my newest game. Me as feds at L5. I wiped out the Klingons, am about to finish off the Cardiassions. No site of the Ferengi just yet. Am at turn 189. Romulans requested a peace treaty at turn 76 for 100 turns and have respected it. So far. thy have 11 systems but have not grown past that. I have them surrounded when I finish mopping up tha Cardi's. If they leave me alone, I will go and hunt the Ferengi.
Author:  ftranschel [ 30 Jul 2005, 00:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: My latest game ... You Make The Call!
TrekBoyChris wrote:
northtexan95 wrote:
I could have two smaller ships for one Galaxy but those smaller ships get destroyed more than twice as fast. Anything less than a Galaxy just can't stand up in a fire fight.


You're right, though i did once destroy a Outpost II with 9 Oberth I's :D


Na, you can kick every outpost (/including the klingon one) with three elite Oberths.

Turn one: While the group leading scout evade, the other two are set to ram. They wont reach the outpost.

Turn two: Same for the group leading ship. The others have the assault order.

Turn three: The leading oberth retreats.

Turn four: The now leading ship is set to retreat as it's distance is to short for it to evade succesfully. The last one assault. There you are.

@WHawk: No, you really can't tell me T5 vs T1 challenges you. You have 50 systems before you oponents have 15 together!!!
Author:  northtexan95 [ 30 Jul 2005, 03:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: My latest game ... You Make The Call!
Winterhawk7 wrote:
All this is well and good for a modded game. I do not play modded, so a lot of whats here is a bit futile. So far i am actually winning a game as the Federation. I'm level 5 all other races level 1. Going to work my way down to everyone at level 1, impossable mode, NO minors, no Mods. Then go for the throat. lol

As I can respect Federation players, how you all actually win a game without being modded or 4 levels higher is beyond my thinking. So far in my newest game. Me as feds at L5. I wiped out the Klingons, am about to finish off the Cardiassions. No site of the Ferengi just yet. Am at turn 189. Romulans requested a peace treaty at turn 76 for 100 turns and have respected it. So far. thy have 11 systems but have not grown past that. I have them surrounded when I finish mopping up tha Cardi's. If they leave me alone, I will go and hunt the Ferengi.


I play modded games because once you play them the regular game is boring. I think playing the Feds isn't so hard at all. The key is getting the minors to join you. I didn't play modded games until just the past few months.
Author:  Winterhawk [ 30 Jul 2005, 08:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: My latest game ... You Make The Call!
lol,

but to start I do not play and Minors... lol makes it a lot more tough!!! lol
Author:  ftranschel [ 30 Jul 2005, 11:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: My latest game ... You Make The Call!
But not at level 5. I mean, you soon have ten or more colonies equal to all the colonies of the other, so you number them out by a factor of 5-7. Where is the challenge there if *you* have more and better ships?
Author:  Winterhawk [ 04 Aug 2005, 13:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: My latest game ... You Make The Call!
Very good point. Advancement in ship development would be nice.

At least to say a level 14..
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