Yeah, they may be an asset when you start the game, but you'll just have to mothball them once technology progresses.

As CVN said, we had quite a long discussion about having minor races' ships as buildable, but it would mean adding all those extra ships to the the ship lists - that in it's self would be a lot of extra work, but you would also have to specify where the ships would be built (Most likely only the minors' home system, and that could be extremely difficult to program) and when they could be built (You have to set it so they become buildable once they have joined you, and remove the ships once they leave/die, instead of new tech = new ship, newer tech = newer ship.

Basically, it would just require a lot of extra programming, and it would wouldn't be canon (Most of the races would want the technology from the alien vessels, but they would prefer to have it built into their own ships)

Most people also decided against it anyway, so that's what has happened.

Basically, there are a number of reasons as to why we decided against it. It's just a shame you missed out on the discussion.

Think of it this way.
When was the last time you saw the Federation issue an order for half a dozen Trill warships?
Never... They don't destroy those already, they keep them in storage, but what they got first is what they need.
A few minor ships realy are superior so some major's but they are not realy unessential...

ack.. your all ganging up on me...... the umm 2 of you lol
i see your point.. but i stand even firmer that this idea would rock the game to a c++ explosion... ahem

oh well.. que sera.. sera
ill post some more rejected ideas in other threads

We're not ganging up you...just your ideas!

Think of it from our point of view: -

1) We had a discussion.
2) We decided stuff.
3) We agreed.
4) You came along.



Nah, i'm just kidding. Post all you want, everyone's ideas are worthy of being read. (Even if they re just repeats) Even if we agree on stuff, others may point out things we have forgotten about, or simply never thought of. Remember, until the game is finally released, none of this is actually final.

fair enough
im just fooling around but my ideas are serious

Eeh, you'd never have guessed, but I fool around as well! (Tribble Super-weapon!)

There's no harm in a bit of fun, but we do need to develop ideas for this game if it is to ever be completed!

Hey, you never know, a bit of fun may even get your point over better than a normal post (Tribble Super-weapon)

You can even use subliminal messaging to get your point across (Tribble Super-weapon)

I suppose these are ideas that some people may use, but they obviously don't work...

HEY! what about a Tribble Super-weapon ????

Tribble super-weapon? Wish i'd thought of it!

i know.. sometimes im smarter than my parole officers give me credit for..

Smarter than the average bear then...

Hey all-

I'm afraid that I haven't read all of the 'game request' topics, since the sheer volume of information there is rather daunting... so I apologize if this idea has come up, but I haven't seen it thus far.

Would it be possible to make the outposts/starbases independently customizable?

For example, could you have your troop transport/construction ship build a standard outpost, and then build, say, a subspace telescope at that outpost... either using another construction ship or a separate menu on the outpost?

I figure that starbases and outposts in the various episodes definitely seem to demonstrate different purposes, and this could reflect it and add an interesting nuance to the game's strategy.

Just off of my head, a few rough upgrade ideas for outposts/starbases... limited to one or two per outpost, and maybe two or three per starbase?

-Enhanced defensive suite, improves weaponry, shielding and hull integrity. This could be used to fortify a position in an unstable area. Think DS9 upgrades against the Dominion.

-Trading post, adds to the credit income of trade routes in nearby sectors and possibly generates income on its own.

-Deep space research lab, like Regula 1 from TWOK. Adds to research, possibly with bonuses for being near various astronomical phenomena. Maybe the player could pick its specialty, i.e. construction, weapons, etc.

-Subspace telescope, adds to sensor range and resolution in the area.

-Communications relays, maybe reduces bribe effectiveness in nearby systems, or adds to morale, or acts like a command cruiser would in battle.

-Special operations facility, adds to intel and possibly has other functions.

-Spacedock, further extends range and allows for the construction of smaller starships.

Each race would get the various selections above with some tweaks, and possibly others that you guys think of, in addition to a special upgrade available only to each race -- klingons getting a troop training facility, cardassians getting an ore processing facility to put in orbit of subjugated planets, etc.

Like I say, I don't know if this could be done... but I think it'd really reflect the importance that starbases seem to play in the various series.

The answer to this is...yes and no!

What I mean, is that there is going to be something like ten different bases in the game!

There is already going to be a Science Station that gives you a research bonus if you place it near a nebula, blackhole, etc. I don't know of the progression, but I think it goes Listening post, Science Station, Outpost, <something>, <something>, <something>, <something>, <something>, <something>, StarDock (Starbase 74 type)

Of course, my info may be wrong, but iyou can't exaclty go wrong by putting <something>

I really don't know about the bases for the other races though. I assume all the races will have the same progression route, but I don't know (Exactly) what that route is.

I belive these ones will be in, not sure about the others.
Like Matress said, plenty of starbases

just to put in the full information, the current list of bases is:
Depot
Outpost
Starbase (Starbase 375 type)
Spacedock (the big station)
Science Station
Scanner Array

Communication relays were included in the first game as a planetary structure, and i assume it would be the same in this one

Trading posts were brought up in the past (way back last year, as far as i remember) and the idea was rejected, as it would have no effect on trade (or something along those lines, i can't remember quite what, something about slowing down trade by making a triangle (think pythagorian theorem))

Special ops (an intel increaser) is a planetary operation also, i believe (i may be wrong, im taking my cues from the first game, once again)

The idea of the enhancing bases is...interesting. Perhaps you could elaborate on your idea further (would it be temporary, how would it be different from a base upgrade)

I'm not trying to shoot down ideas, just clarify information, so keep thinking up ideas.

Well, now that I know of the various station types and their purposes, that renders my idea somewhat less useful... but I envisioned the station enhancements as being more or less permanent parts of the stations in question, that would give bonuses separate of the planetary structures. I was thinking along the same lines as the researchable pods on the science stations in Armada -- permanent, useful but also decommissionable.

To use the example of the covert operations facility, I envisioned it something like the Romulan/Cardassian Phoenix Facility from BOTF, giving a fixed bonus to intel rather than a population-dependent production.

One major advantage of these non-planetary facilities would be that they wouldn't be constrained to a planetary system -- paving the way for useful secret bases, sequestered in nebulae or in the heart of your territory.

On the flip side of things, however, they would make very tempting targets for opponents, who might specifically go after a starbase in order to disrupt an intelligence network, or research into new weaponry.

Anyhow, like you guys said, not quite so useful or novel an idea with the number of bases that are being implemented as it is. I didn't see the harm in elaborating somewhat, however.

I am very pleased to hear that stations will be treated properly in this game, however.

*Edit - for the purposes of this post, an update is an improvement to a station, and an upgrade is building the next station up in the chain. (Like upgrading from a Starbase, to a Stardock)*

Thinking about the upgrades of Armada, it could be an interesting addition to BOTF2. What about the officer's quarters that you could add on to your Starbases in Armada?

You were able to build up to six of them per base, and once built, they allowed you to control more ships/stations per sector. This was a cheaper alternative to building an entire new Starbase from scratch, but they gave no further benefits (Like extra shields or weapons) which I thought was a bit unfair. Surely if you are going to expand a base like that, you would at least add in a couple of shield emitters to improve the defense of the station?

To incorporate the ideas then, perhaps you could have an option where once a base is built, you could select an option to update the station (Extra shields etc) This would cost you resources, and put your base out of action during the updates (So they are open to attack, and offer no advantage during the updates, like system defense, or sector scans)

Of course, once the updating is done, your bases will be more of a threat to enemies.

Perhaps the updates would only become available, once a higher level of tech (Than your base needs to enable it's construction) becomes available?

So how would this affect the game?

+ Once updated, your bases will have better defenses than they originally had.
+ Updates are cheaper than upgrades.
+ Updating is faster than upgrading.
+ Upgraded stations will require more credits to support. Updated stations won't. (New stations are bigger, more systems mean more maintenance, more people will be working on board)

- Your base will be totally open to attack without support during the update.
- An update isn't as good as an upgrade.
- Could be a waste of resources, if you later go on to upgrade. (Which you probably will) So it is only a stop-gap measure.

So what do people think? Is this how you imagined the upgrades/updates LongShotSky?

I think LongShot's idea is pretty good overall. While we hear nothing about it in any of the series, we also have no reason to believe that all Starbases we exactly alike.

If we wanted to make this work, I say you could only upgrade Starbases (375 type, and their equivalents in the other races). We could still use all of LongShot's ideas, except for the Research lab, and Spacedock, since we already have both.

EDIT: You just beat me with your giant post matress.
But your ideas are a good addition to the idea, as a whole.

Matress basically hit the nail on the head with that post. I was definitely envisioning something very distinct from upgrading from a starbase to a stardock, or the like.

Updates, as Matress called them, would not change the station's structure at all, but would rather enhance/change a system or give a special ability. In the series, we saw starbases that looked very similar to one another, but seemed to have different purposes. See http://www.ditl.org in the stations section: though Starbase 173 and 375 are almost identical in dimensions and size, DITL gives them different capabilities and purposes.

I figure that the updates would add this sort of distinction, and allow for a quicker, cheaper alternative to upgrades.

Each size class of station would be given the option to recieve more of these updates, since it only makes sense that a larger base would have room for more.

So what do you all think?

For the purposes of the game, I think it is perfect...for the purposes of canon...that's where there is a bit of a problem.

Small bases are cheap and easy to run. They can be built quickly, and be decommissioned quickly. The larger your base is, the longer it takes to build, and the higher the running costs.

Small bases are the mainstay of the Federation fleet. Huge bases like 375 type and Stardock are relatively rare, and are never more than one per sector.

But this is all about canon, not the game. I agree with the ideas (Partly coz I suggested them...) and I think it could be a nice addition to the game.

Of course, it's up to the big guys to decide whether it is possible/worth putting in to the game.

Still think its a good idea, but I stand by what i said above.

There are lots of different kinds of star bases, even ground based ones. I would say a star base is probably really just the center of Starfleet operations for a given volume of space.

uu..more station/outpost/starbases types? Excellent! ZTeh more the merrier!

@CVN-65 - Je, je, posada je opaljena do daske! TNG vlada!

One thing i would suggest.

In BOTF1 you could scrap (decomision) ships and planet structures, however i never found a way to scrap an outpost or starbase.

Many times i would build outposts and starbases in a line as a defensive wall while i build up my fleet and built up the stuff on my planets. Then i would find myself moving beyond the base wall and needing to build more bases to extend how far my ships could go, and at that point, i would find the old bases and outposts where not needed (and getting expensive to maintain), but had no way to scrap one or more of them to save on maintenince.

Perhaps there could be a way to scrap or decomision bases and outposts?

Tielee

Lol, you can scrap outposts/starbases in botf1. Just click on the picture at the bottom when the oupost is selected and a dialog will open up askin you if you want to scrap it.

Lol, Was confused by that message then, tielee.

IOIO is right; just do as he says, and you can scrap bases to your hearts content. If you still can't do it, let us know, and we'll try and help you further.

It is a really cool idea that, would have to check with gavin to see how it can be done. As far as i understood, there would be six individual stations available in the game:

1. Depot
2. Outpost I
3. Outpost II
4. Starbase I
5. Starbase II
6. Spacedock

(they would have different names for the other empires tho)

None of these stations would 'auto-upgrade' at a certain tech. I'm not sure how it would be done it's not really been covered yet. I had it in mind that it would require a series of on-site Troop transports to phyically upgrade a Starbase I to Starbase II, which is pretty much what you're saying anyway. However, an evolutionary tree is at work in this system, meaning that for a Spacedock to be created, it must first have progressed from level to level, starting out as a Depot.

Spacedock will be mega-expensive though, I cannot imagine even the most advanced, expanded empire (say having over 100 systems) having more than 9 or 10 of them, fleet-wide. Same goes for the Uber-ships (Negh'Var, Valdore etc). Even an empire advanced and developed enough to support a fleet of 200 ships may only have no more than 7 or 8 Ubers in them - this is their very nature, they're flagship classes in themselves; will require a huge turnover of credits per turn to maintain them, and vast monies and raw materials to build them in the first place. Anyway, I digress...

Could you let us know what Gavin says on the idea, Dafedz?

It would be nice if such things could be implemented, and it would make sense - a small base would first be built for the minor nees of a system/sector.

Then, over time, those needs would increase, so the base would get upgraded to fill those needs. With the ever increasing demands of newer, larger, Starships, and the expansion of the Empire, those needs would continually increase, until the point comes when the base no longer meets those requirements, and the Empire has the resources to supply such refits and expansions.

Building a massive Base from scratch would be wasteful, and would take a huge amount of time - it is even conceievable that by the time the base is completed, it would already not be able to cope with the demands of the time, because it's construction and design would be outdated.

Anyway, when building Bases in the game, the construction efforts must be huge, as they should also be when upgrading/updating/whatever.

I agree that each time you improve a Base, it should require the help of a Troop Transport, as it did in BOTF. How else would you supply the crew, resources, systems etc? (Ignoring Freighters )

These huge costs would be the reason why you would want to update, instead of upgrade a Base. Updating would be cheaper and faster than upgrading - a must if you are low on resources, or the Base is likely to come under attack soon.

It would also provide more of a variety in the types of Bases that you could encounter, whilst exploring space. I doubt many people would say no to having less types of Base/Ship during Tactical combat, afterall...

If Gavin likes the idea, i'll write a post with more detail on the idea. (Like possible upgrades etc.)

I remember hearing quite a bit about Science Outposts/Stations earlier on in the site. Has this structure been scrapped? I hope not...

Yeah, good point, rigel.

It was said that you could build Science stations near anomalies and that you'd get a much bigger research bonus than if you sent a Science ship to investigate.

I hope they are still in, even if it's only the Federation (And hopefully the Romulans) that get them.

They should be, they are in the TWAAO thread. Those and Scanner arrays, but the scanner array idea may be outdated (since it has to do with the detection of cloaked ships, and theres been alot of discussion about ways to detect cloaked ships since that was originally posted).