Ok, this is compiled list of Minor Races, their structures and values etc. I haven't posted the list as a message, as it's best viewed as a Word Document due to colour coding and table formatting. As a solution (for those who don't have Word), I've made it into a web page. The link is below.

Please allow page to load, it's large (1 mb)



As you will see, some races can have Two special structures, an idea I'm playing with which can hopefully be implemented...

New descriptions will have to be created for races not covered yet. We certainly trust your collective creative talents, as it's been well proved thus far.

Here's another page with a run down of Resources, and Resource distribution across the minor races (in accordance to their quadrant location - although this is pertinent only to when playing the canon or approximate Map option). Also on this page is some info on planets and possible planet types.

I know you haven't posted this as a message Dafedz, (In which case i'll delete this post if you just want to keep it separated) but there are one or two things regarding the lists i'd like to mention.

Firstly, i'd like to mention the Breen. Originally, we were going to give them the bonus that you've shown, (+25% Weapons Research) but we were also going to give them a slight energy bonus. I was wondering if perhaps they could be given a second building which would give this bonus?

Secondly, we know that Moons and Asteroids will be in the game, but would it be at all possible for you to show us what they will look like in the system map?

Jig has already posted a .gif model of a Planet orbited by two Moons, but it was a singular Planet, so we still don't know how it will look in the system map.

There has also been no pictures at all of how Asteroids will be portrayed on screen; will they be shown as an actual image, or will there be a simple icon next to the Dilithium/Energy/Food bonus icons? Or will they even not be shown, since pretty muchmost system will have them?

I'm sure other people would come up with similar wquestions anyway, so i'm just voicing them. Like i said though, i'll delete my post if you want.

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Anyways, cool!

It's great to have a table like this to give us quick info on the game (Seeing as the TWAAO thread is getting more out of date with each passing day )

It'll definitely be of help to everyone, especially newbies to the site/game.

At the moment things are reasonably well balanced as far as resources go. Granting the Breen Energy research (and hence the Alpha Quadrant another Research resource) may require tweaking elsewhere, but yeh, these things are open to debate now the list's up.

Asteroids, Moons etc, this can easily be done. This photoshop copy/paste effort took 5 mins to come up with.



Seeing this image you wouldn't need an imagination to figure out what it means. I guess it really could be as simple as that. Jigs Gif image looks really cool, but it may become complicated with many moons circling, and it might be too much of a distraction to eye if you have a handful of moons all circling half a dozen planets at the bottom of the system screen. Don't worry somehow it will be implemented.

As far as Deuterium/Dilthium/Raw Materials symbols go, two options. One, have them postioned next to the sun (as in the above image), secondly, over the planet/moon in question. The latter option may result in the system image become cluttered, so next to the sun (indicating that that resource is available in the system) may be the best choice. I was thinking the Raw Materials icon could be a couple of small metal bars, like ingots or something.

So you don't mind us posting here then?

Ok, i'd also personally prefer it if the icons were next to the Sun, just like in BOTF.

I like your idea of making the resources icon a couple of metal ingots, it's pretty obvious what they would mean, at least. The simpler the icons, the better and easier to understand the map will be. Anything that complicates it should be given careful thought beforehand, as it could frighten off any newbies to the game.

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A long time ago, it was said that the Moons would be shown in each 'corner' of the Planet model, thus allowing there to be a max of 4 Moons per Planet.

Jig then made his own model, so I assumed that this was to be used in the game instead. However, your version would allow for much more variation in system size, would allow you to have more Moons, (Since you've made one Planet with 5 Moons ) and wouldn't be such a distraction during the course of a game. (Jig's model is total eye candy afterall - and I mean that in a good way! )

Therefore, I hope your system (Or at least something similar) will be the the chosen final display for the game.

We would have to be careful though; f we put too much into the system map, it will become too cluttered and would spoil the game. The system map is probably the most important screen afterall, since it gives you detailed information on the Planets, resources/bonuses, size, and growth rate of the Planets in that system, all in a single glance. It needs to be as easy to understand as we can make it.

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Thanks for making the model Dafedz, it certainly does give us an idea of how it could look in game.

I look forward to any other ideas on the look of the game you may have, and I only wish I could help...but let's just say that art and graphics are not my strong points, so i'll leave it to the experts.

*Edit - ooh, now it's 1300 posts and counting...soon i'll be the top poster on the site! Bwahahahaha! *

I agree that the Dafedz pic above looks very nice, clear, and crisp. I'd certainly vote for that.

Well nice of both of you to say. It was never meant to upstage Jig's in any way, it was just a representation of how it could look, it was just me throwing an idea around. These things really are cosmetic and not of great concern at the moment. The key issues are creating the nuts and bolts of the game - making sure it can function. Next we have to determine if it can function smoothly. Then the minor cosmetic issues come in, such as the graphical look of the game, interface screens, how nebulas will be portrayed, texturing all the ship models etc. There's still so much to do, we've barely begun.

Cosmetics is still important for the final release though - I know it isn't a priority at the moment; as you say, actually getting it to work should rightly be the main priority...at least for the moment.

We wouldn't want BOTF2 to end up worse off than BOTF1, would we? 8O

Once working properly though, the cosmetics of the game will really need to be given thought. Like I said in my last post, if the screen is too cluttered, it will frighten off newbies, but if it is too plain, older gamers (Like us) would be bored and disappointed. (Hopefully not us )

Eye candy should be used sparingly, but when it is used, the game should go all out. The Tactical Screen and Galactic map are such areas where we need such eye candy.

Whilst I know the Galactic map is completely different, there will be many more screens and gameplay will be a different experience, it would be nice to keep as much of the game familiar, at least from a cosmetics point of view.

It is BOTF2 afterall.

Radically different ideas (Eg. making the screens look more like something from DS9/TOS instead of TNG) would spoil it for me, since I identify TNG screens with the game - something which I think we all do now. TNG screens are what makes the interfaces of BOTF, not fancy buttons from the future. (Or switches from the past! )

This would then be in keeping with the system map. Keeping it relatively the same as with BOTF (With the necessary additions) should be the focus of the screens. From what i've seen so far of those screens, that is the general idea anyway, so I haven't got any problems with anything...yet.

Same here, but isn't it pointless to have races that we know so little about?

Ah well, the more the better...

Well there's a few we know little about, but what we do know does add something to the game - a reasonably legitimate special structure and hence resource. It's not just a race name we have to come up with, but a star system name and planet. We can't have a planet called Night Race Planet I, or Huntersoftoskia, etc lol. So we'll have to think of something if they're in. Grathon Tolar's race I want to keep as well, for political sabotage, most useful indeed.

And yes, the quadrant scheme for those races is for a canon or approximate map. As I understand it this is how it will work.

Option 1. Canon Map. A pre-arranged map with set positions for all the empires and the key minor races whose star positions we may know or can guess well enough. Each Major will receive 1 key, exapandable minor close by.

Federation- Vulcans
Klingons-Maybe Gorn or Sheliak
Romulans-Maybe Yridians
Cardassians-Maybe Miradorn, Breen,
Dominion- Vorta

Option 2. Approximate Map. Pre-arranged in that empires will start off in their respective quadrant as in Option 1, but the minor race locations will be random. So the Vulcans could be the Delta quadrant for instance.

Option 3. Random Map. All positions will be completely random. Quadrants probably won't overlay the galactic map by default.

I also added another structure for the Trill, the Hoobishan Baths, which boosts system morale.

Just like I said in my last post!

Mark explained it to me (Have a read ) and to be honest, who would you have to replace them?

I was actually wondering if the Dominion would need to have an 'extra' system to balance it out, like the other races?

They have many bonuses compared to the other races, with the Federation close behind.

When me and Mark did the calculations of Empire strengths, we both came up with the Dominion as the most powerful (By a considerable amount in some places)

Based on this, it might be an idea to not give them an extra system, if you want them to be balanced out.