I've found, like a lot of people, that AI on original and unmodded BOTF is hopelessly retarded and, even on impossible, is not all that difficult to beat. However, recently I began to start the game on Impossible at 1 tech level behind everyone else.

So far, I've only beat it with the Ferengi (actually, haven't even beaten it because I got lazy, but you probably know the feeling when you have about 40 ships that are about to quadruple in value the next turn with some nice fat minors that are eating out of the palm of your hand and can't really be bothered to start the bombardment or conquering phase of domination).

I was wondering if anyone else had tried this method and, if so, with what settings (and what sort of success).

if u want a real challanege, make urself the same level as other races, but put just one race higher, mayb 2 levels, it will end up a slugging match between you, if you are any good.

Sounds like an interesting...challenge . I suppose you can't really start out right next to them though, you'll get run over and cheated to death. I definitely will try this for my next game, though .

i got my arse kicked, the key thing is they tend to be able o overun other empires, making them far stronger as they get all the big systems.

Impossable many minors, all level 1 Yea Baby!! Thats how I play....

Hmmmm seems like I have mentioned that in about 20 or so posts....

IT can be fun.... quite a challenge..

These fightin' Ferengi bartenders are crazy!

I recently played the following config: All T3, Cards T4, me T1 (well... except for the fact that I miraculously changed my Scout I into a Sovereign...) and who was left: The Feds (read: me) and the Ferengi! I have set all their ship's maintenance to 255 and none of their ships yet has more than 5 Torpedoes, so how is it possible to catch up with three other majors???

When i first downloaded it off Armadafleetcommand i just started off being of Tech 5 and all the others on Tech 1. Then after conquering the galaxy with the feds i tried being on Tech 1 with the other's on Tech 3.

I was annialated iwthin 20 turns

The computer does seem to get a little...belligerent when they sense the weakness of you being behind by 2 tech levels with a quarter the number of ships. I once tried being the Romulans at 2 techs behind everyone. Starting off near the Federation, I was understandably disappointed (as this meant that I had pretty much no chance of getting any of the minors). However, before the feds were able to completely overrun me, I was able to wipe out somewhere in the order of 25 light cruisers with three of my cruisers. Of course, this didn't help accept to make me feel slightly better about my loss as the Feds had about 20 more sitting in reserve. Oh well, it was a good time nonetheless! I think I will try xir_'s method though, sounds like it could be...challenging. All T1 except for Cards, T3 is what I will try. Long live the Klingon Empire!

i just got my ass kicked in a t1 mod (colonies) i was cards and the klingons were at cruiser2 tech and tt2 tech, they had vulcan pumping out 1 cruiser pere turn, and they hit me with my 18 cruiser 1`s. this is the first time i have ever lost a game.

xir_-looks like you were right about this version being quite challenging. The Cards overran every other major power (except the Federation, with whom they oddly enough have an alliance). They took over the ferengi by turn 22 and several minors thereafter. In addition, once they met me, they were able to sabotage me 23 times (stealing 4 ships). I think I will still be able to win, however, as I just got phoenix facilities operational and blocked my first sabotage. It certainly is an experiment I'd recommend.

Jig-That last statement is a pretty impressive distinction. Welcome to the club, so to speak .

Well it's understandibly that in the colonies mod you must have lost due to the fact the klingons have the huge advantage they have working beams!

(Anyway: Is there a solution for the borg-textures on that dominion ships?)

i`m redoing the dominion ships, i have the heidiki in as wqell as the hutet gotta increase sheilds and torp accuracy to even things up.

The thing I dont get with building mod was why the romulans didnt kill me at the start of the game. When they bumped into m we were equal in everything except theri millitary was much better. But they left me for 20-40 turns and now im rolling over 3 empires simaltaneously, the only hard aspect is actually catching their stupid fleets.

Jig, its Hideki NOT Hidiki. Hope it doesn't end up like that in the game

wow u went for the cards, i would have started with something easier, like the federation.

good luck, post some screenies id be interested to se how ur doing.

Whoa, sorry about that, I haven't been back here for a while. If you were talking to me xir_ (kind of hard to tell with the way posts get sidetracked sometimes), I'd be happy to post some screen shots. Anyway, the war goes well. A fleet of eleven cloaked cruisers patrol the Cardassian border, destroying any battleships in their path. I'll see what I can do about the screenies in a few days.

I've tried this before but I don't remember how it turned out. My question is, what race is best for this type of setup as the one empire 2 levels higher?

The Romulans maybe ... but the seem to battle more with intel than ships. Not the Ferengi! Never! Klingons will attack and attack and attack. The Cardassians may be a good middle choice between Romulans and Klingons.

Any opinions?

If you decide for the cards, make sure you get the destroyer II soon as there is no other class capable of holding an invasion force back until you get the heavy cruisers and battleships. The so-called cruisers are crap and no word the strike cruisers ^^

being the roumulans is a big advantage in that sort of game, the cloak benefit, can alow you to overcome the technological superority of the other races.

havent played a game as the rommies for a while, i might give it a go

Allrighty.


Un modded. No minor races. Everyone Tech level 1 I'm (Gag!) playing as Federation. This is my ongoing experiment. Thus far, only adjudtments made were resetting construction levels to 50%. I'm now on Game 12. 11 Games before I have been wiped out by turns 160. Longest game set like this. 189 turns. Roms leave me alone so far in every game. Klingons - depends on if they are at war with Ferengi or Cardi's or both.
Setting alliances is rough. Most that I have tried to set up have been refused. lol. Interesting thing about this.... I've played as Roms, won all but 3 games = 600+ games. Klingons 350 + games lost only 12 (learning about the game first timy play) Ferengi... 30 games, won them all but too hard to see the gameboard with the colour scheme. And Lastly Cardi's lost 1 out of 30 games. played 70 so far.

Only one I cannot get anywhere with is the Federation. If I try to just play my normal aggressive way. All the systems get all jacked out of joint and my overall rating drops to the bottom.. I be hated by my own people! lol

So how do you win in this? I have not yet figured it out... I am amased that those who play the Federation actually get anywhere even against the A.I. all that I can see is that Feds can only win with a huge force of ships. I'm going to start a game today with the Feds at tech level 5 and everyone else level 1. Then if that works I will work my settings down until I am at level 1 again..

I am open to any ideas. (Un Modded of course) I'm also doing a comparison of ships in a one on one battle at same experiance levels. As soon as I get a conclusive list I will post my findings. It is looking interesting though.. At Least to me anyways.

take out enemy fleets before ground assaults, try to win 3 battle before each invasion. that normally balances out, then leaves the enemy to build a few more ships, whilst u raid their production systems.

This slows ship production (and raises capital) and if you do it to the home system they will send in ships as soon as they are constructed. ending up leaving you with some very skilled heavy cruisers after a few turns of individual command ships trying to nock em out. Raising ur battle count and alowing the invasion to continue, i tend to leave them unesscorted though with no command ships otherwise the ai can be scared off and will build a larger fleet.

if u do invade try to go for 1 system takes rather than long term bombardments. Also liberations are generally a good idea, liberate the occasional system and u shall be just fine.

Oh yes. They're suckers for this. Liberate a few minor (and then bribe them in easy) and morale will be easier to handle

I always play Fed. For me the keys are to very rapidly expand and recruit minors. When the game starts I build all the transports and colony ships I can and bypass the nearby systems. I head out to grab all the systems I can before other can and then I'll colonize my interior space.

Second most important thing is minors. If you can get some to join you around turn 80 or so you'll mostly likely have a system ready to pump out ships while your colonies continue to grow. Heck, generally my minors build about all my ships until near the end when my own systems are properly built up.

When you play the Feds without minors it's tough. You're gonna have to have Sol in a corner of the galaxy and hope no one finds you until after turn 100 or so.

BOTF is tough game to balance. It seems either you it can be too hard where your wiped out or too easy where after about turn 150 it turns into a mop-up game where your victory is only a matter of time.

For me it seems that one of the biggest problems is the other empires expand so slowly. As the Feds I often have a quarter of the galaxy before turn 100. In my last game I was the Feds starting at level 1, the other empires started at level 2 except for the Cardassians who started at level 3. By turn 200 I had over have the galaxy, Klingons were allies between me and the Cardassians and Romulans. The Ferengi had about 5 systems and were a non factor. It was no longer fun. It just a matter of turns on until the Feds conquered all.

I usually start at Level 2 but this was the first time in a long time I started at Level 1. It definately slowed down my expansion for about 30 turns but by turn 60 I had caught up to the other empires. It was a huge factor once I got past 30 turns.

Here's my next goal. I'll be playing with the Ultimate Mod 2.0 (after playing this mod the unmodded game seems to dull). Large, irregular, many minors, impossible. I'll be the Federation starting at Level 1. I'll start all the other empires at level 3 (two ahead). I may start one empire at level 4 but I don't know which empire I would do that to. I'll see if a two level head start can make an interesting game.

xir_:
If you're still interested in how my game is going, I can give you a quick synopsis. I'm not sure exactly how to get images from my computer into posts though, so you might have to go with the text only version (unless you'd care to give me some pointers ). The shortest of the short synopses is: the game goes well.

The Carddies conquered the Ferengi within turn 22, and the klingons not long after. I believe they made one large mistake, however, they made an alliance with the Feds. I don't think they've been able to expand as much as they could, and this has left all of their ships (impressive though they are, they've been building nothing but battleships for the last 30 turns) in my space, easy pickings for my groups of 15 cruisers (especially once they became cruiser IIs).

At the moment, I am starting a gigantic buildup of destroyers that I can change to d IIs any time. I have 8 systems building 1 destroyer a turn, and enough reserves to last me for about 50 turns at that pace. With some quick math, and what I already have, I should be well over 400 destroyers (of course, half if not more will be scrapped instantly).

This game is essentially over. The Carddies didn't do enough to destroy me when they had the chance, and they failed to take the Vulcans away from me (Vulcan has been building ships for the last hundred turns at the rate of a cruiser every two turns, or a destroyer every one). Now I get to revel in my conquest !

Correction: Looks like I actually have 10 destroyers being produced per turn, those tricky tricky singularity plants.

Make sure you quickly reach some nonmodded ship-classes (or reload them with better torpedoes as the standard stats is really bad if the phasers don't work ). Of course the new ships are cool, but mostly no match for enemy command ships as they have beam weapons. Once they got to harry (especially the cards) your fleet is dead.

I never had the time to have tonnes of minor's join the federation so i just had maybe 5 systems colonized and suped them up. And after a LOT ppf turns i contrrolled most of the galaxy.

I've detailed my latest game, starting two levels below everyone else:

http://botfii.armadafleetcommand.com/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=14555#14555

Build your own system fast load up with 27 troop transports then reach as far as you can build starbases, then devide building warships with colony ships. after you have at least 10 systems, attack! attack! attack! the smallest race/enemy system nearest you.