I watched next generation and DS9 and such, I'm aware the Dominion are tough but when I saw the firepower of the Breen (one shot disable ship weaponary like they did to the defiant) it makes me wonder on two things: For a race like that they are rarely mentioned I noticved, espacilly a lot more compared to the cardassians and such and two: If they were so powerul during the dominion war how come they didn't declare war on the federation or another race before the whole dominion war if they were that strong. It just might be me but I don't recall much of the episodes giving detail on them.

1. The breen are a relatively "small" race, in terms of population. They have always been aggressive and they indeed were mentioned in TNG, although never seen.

2. The next thing is that the allied forces could easily adapt their energy-dampening weapon and found ways to circumvent this issue, so they were of no use after one or two months, though the dominion had a real tactical advantage that time. Also it was stated this weapons was relatively new, so athoerwise no breen ship would be a match for the allied forces without those weapons.

3. This weapon should better be called "plot-disruptor", because all it really did was to spice things up, destroying the Chin'Toka fleet with the defiant and all.

Right I see though I noticed the Dominion's depdence on the Breen is what isolates the cardassians. And in theory wouldn't the energy damperning weapon be ideal against the borg?

Though on the issue of the whole Dominion war, is there any known poltical changes in the star trek universe (ie; Do the cardassians become a federation style democratic goverment or is it left with its current goverment still intact (or what's left of it) Hell does the federation become 10x stronger now that voyager is back with advance knowlege and tec.

No. The borg would adapt the way this weapons works and in the second encounter the breen forces would be assimilated.



The truth is: We don't know. Yet, there are non-canon discussions and theories, but in fact there is nothing canon (read: movie or series) about the cardassians or their new government.

As well, we see that in Nemesis (due to Janeway being an admiral) Voyager is home but none of the vessels we see has this incredible transphasic torpedoes or the armor. (Otherwise the Scimitar just wouldn't have stood a chance ^^). One could think the federation shares the opinion this technologies should not be adapted due to their break of the temporal directive, and thus should not be use until the federation scientist would have researched them theirselves. (What makes an interesting point: What if the Federation got the anti-borg technologies because Janeway in the different timeline gave them to them and _thus_ the actual Janeway could give them to the federation??? )

Although the Breen had a incredibly strong weapon, their ships weren't (or didn't appear) that strong defensive wise. The Dominion probably had lots of them.

From the last episode, we know the advanced tech is at least 15 years more advanced than anything the Federation as we know it has.

I know it isn't canon, but quite a while ago I read on a fanboy site about how the Federation tried to adapt the technology for use on their Starships. It was actually really interesting to read, although because of events in the various films, many parts of it are unlikely to come true.

___

The attempts to copy the technology were an almost total failure, as they were unable to get the replicator tech to function efficiently enough for the armour to repair itself at a viabe speed. The damaged sections of the armour drained power from the ships' systems faster than they were able to produce it, and eventually the weapons systems had to be shutdown to prevent a total systems shutdown.

Due to these deficiencies, the Federation decided that they would seal away the technology, the results of the research, and all ships that had been refitted with their many attempts at copying the technology for a period of no less than 15 years.

This would mean that there would be few repurcussions to the timeline, and would give the Federation enough time to achieve a tech level where the use of the armour could become viable.

The Transphasic Torpedo technology was to be permanently sealed away, except for use in extreme need/dnager for the Federation. It was felt such weapons would provoke the other races into developing even more powerful weaponry, leading to an arms race similar to that of the Cold War of the 20th Century.

However, the Transphasic Torpedo technology did come into common use during a second Dominion invasion during the 27th century.

The Dominion had been planning a second attempt at conquering the Alpha Quadrant ever since their devastating defeat at the hands of the Alliance of Alpha Quadrant powers.

They had recovered from the effects of the disease that had been planted by the Federation in the 24th Century. They had used their Genetic engineering skills on themselves, and were now stronger than ever...and had learned from their mistakes.

Instead of making Alliances with small powers, they had began to conquer everything in their path. They retreated from near the exit of the Bajoran Wormhole, and set up a line of bases along their new borders.

The new Outposts were fitted with an Advanced Communications technology that allowed them to infiltrate the Communications network of the Federation so they could misinform Starfleet Command of movements of ships once they had gone through the Wormhole. This allowed them to capture ships without the Federation's knowledge, and the Dominion gained a good insight into Federation Technological advancements - a trick they had learned during their non-aggresion treaty with the Romulans.

Vast new Jem'Hadar Hatcheries were developed so they could produce Troops faster than ever before. The Jem'Hadar were developed further to make them physically even stronger and more resistant to weapons fire.

Their healing ability and life expectancy was also increased - the Dominion realised that if their Troops were to be more effective, they would need to be able to live longer so they could have longer to train. Instead of considering each Jem'Hadar as expendable, they saw them as an investment, and created anti-Alpha-Quadrant training programs so their Troops were better able to strike at their enemies with minimal losses.

The Dominion had a new tactic to use against the Federation - they simply sent young changelings onto Federation ships before they passed through the Wormhole. These changelings killed and replaced the leaders of the Planets and systems they found their way to.

The planted changelings spread fear and confusion amongst the member worlds of the Federation, and several minor worlds left the Federation within a week of the first 'replacements.'

Then, in September 2643, the weakened Federation had it's first official encounter with the new Dominion threat. The Dominion had been massing a Fleet behind their new borders for almost two decades, whilst they developed a new Temporal distortion generator.

Using the generator, they were able to negate the power of the Wormhole aliens. Whenever the aliens tried to remove their Fleet from the timeline, more took their place. The Dominion were able to pass through without fear of losing their Fleet again.

Bajor was obviously the first Federation world they managed to capture. The Federation defense network was largely unprepared for the invasion, believing they would never again come under attack from the Dominion. They had been lured into a false sense of security by the 'reports' that the Dominion had fabricated.

The Dominion did not head straight for Earth. instead, they attacked all the systems which would be most likely to take over the lead of the Federation, should Earth fall.

The Dominion were planning that when they finally attacked Earth, there would be no way for the Federation to regroup itself. The Dominion would be able to then focus on Qo'Nos, Romulus, and especially Cardassia, who they blamed for the loss of the war. Their treachery had not been forgotten by the Dominion, which had sworn revenge.

An unusual turn of events stopped the Dominion from fullign reaching the fruition of their plans, however.

Their intention of conquering the Alpha Quadrant had been so great, that at first an attack on one of their colonies near the Delta Quadrant went largely un-noticed.

It was only when shipments from a Ketracel refinery ceased that a taskforce was sent to find out what the hell was going on with their colonies.

But the taskforce was never heard from again.

Finally, reports started to come in of a massive object heading through Dominion space at incredible velocities. Not only was it destroying all resistance in its path, it was on a direct course for the Dominion homeworld.

The vessel was ignoring all attempts to make contact. It was also able to repair itself at a phenomenal rate - the Dominion had had it's first encounter with the Borg.

Since the Dominion had never encountered the Borg before, they had no idea how to deal with the threat. Their weapons were seemingly useless, and their tactics soon became obsolete, thanks to the adaptability of the Collective.

The Dominion had no choice but to recall it's nearby Fleets for the defense of it's Homeworld. The massive Pyramid-shaped ship was larger than anything the Dominion had even thought of attempting to build, was capable of wiping out whole Fleets, and was practically invincible.

It was only because of the Borg that the Dominion eventually had to pull out of Federation space.

The weakened Federation increased the defense of the Bajor system, and re-established a minefield around the Wormhole. Contact through the Wormhole was severed, and federation life went largely back to normal.

The same could not be said for the Dominion...

...

That's about all I can remember from what i read on the site. I wish I could remember where I read all that to, coz I could have gone into...*ahem* more detail...*ahem*

Well, you could have given a link *hint*

Err...no I couldn't - i can't remember the next bit!

That's why I said I could have gone into more detail if I could remember where I got it from, ie actually remember how it ends!

I just remember that the Dominion Fleet never made it to Earth. Halfway through Federation space, they simply turn around and head for home - what would be left of it, anyway!

Obviously the Dominion wouldn't survive long against this new Borg 'Pyramid' (Wondering if Stargate influenced the writers there... 8O)

So I think it is safe to assume that ... means end of Dominion.

More detail, huh? Nevertheless, it was pretty interesting. I've always enjoyed alt. histories/futures. (A little off topic, but has anyone ever read books by a man named Harry Turtledove? He seems to specialized in alternate histories. He has two big series. The first deals with what may have happened if the south won the US Civil War. Alot of things changed as a result. Without going into alot of detail, but by the time of WW2. the USA is socialist, the CSA (Confederate States of America) is actually where the Nazi 'revolution' begins, not in Germany. And as you may have guessed, since the south did not lose the Civil War, when the Nazis take control in te south, it isnt Jews they are targeting, but the African Americans. ALOT of other stuff happened (not just in the States, but around the world), but it would be a small novel if I tried to explain it all.

The other series starts off in WW2. Everything is going normally... until aliens show up, and start nuking most major cities on earth, in preparation for an invasion. To make a long story short, the aliens were advanced, but not as advanced as you might expect. They couldnt travel FTL, so their invasion force was on sleeper ships, who left their honeworld about 300 or so years ago. Because the race was very long lived, they developed their tech slowly, whereas we short lived humans did not have the time to test new tech like the aliens did, so we basically said, 'Damn the consequences' , and started working on our own tech. So basically, all of the warring powers work together, and eventually drive them from earth. Eventually down the line, we finally start sending ships back to their homeworld.

Sorry guys, this ended up being alot longer then I intended it to.

The first bit sounds like the start of Enterprise Season 4. Or am i just completely wrong?

Interesting development... The Dominion never did meet the Borg did they. Heh, wander how the negotiations went.

Vorta: You will submit to the Founders
Borg: The Founders are irrelevant
Vorta: The Founders are life
Borg: Life is irrelevant
Vorta: Your refusal is ilogical
Borg: Your logic is irrelevant
Vorta doesn't get to finish the sentecne.

Have you ever read "The Portal" on http://www.ditl.org.
Kennedy made a story about how he things would play out if the Federation discovered a portal to the Empire and the SW universe.
Of course, you know who won in the end, so if you're not a Warsie, you might like it

lol, that's just like the borg! I'm not a big Warsie but it would be strange if the Feds did find the SW universe. And if they didn't get on: X-Wings vs Sovereigns. The Federation would annialate the Star Wars ships anyway they look a lot weaker or is that just me?

Heres a good site talking about Trek vs Wars.

http://www.st-v-sw.net/

Its definately from a trek bias, but its much better than http://www.stardestroyer.net , which is the same thing, but with a wars bias. (That, and the guy who made the stardestroyer site seems completly neurotic.)

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The feds would have NO problem defeating a 'Galactic' empire that was defeated by a bunch of walking teddy bears. Those damn Ewoks completely ruined the 6th movie! [End of Rant]

stardestroyer is not bias. It's just a site where he TELLS you the Empire is better. Over and over and over again

Both sites are extensive. st-v-sw webmaster, admits he somewhat prefers Trek over Wars. stardestroyer webmaster... Well, the site is called stardestroyer for God's sake

And what you said about neurotic... There's an understatement



BIG FIGHT TOMORROW!
THE EMPIRE VS. THE EWOK TEDDY RACE


PLACE YOUR BETS

Based on past matchups, I'd have to put my entire life savings on the Ewoks. Its simply the safe bet.

If you've never loked at the st~v~sw site, may I recomend looking at the section called something like "The AT-ST: the Ford Pinto of the Galactic Empire". Its great, because its so true.

Ooh...such a difficult decision...

I doubt the Ewoks will need any help! let me know who won in 2 weeks...

Right, you're leaving. Now or tomorrow?
Well, not matter, the match is set-up. They paid the Ewoks to take a dive

Right, well, while you'll away, I'll be doing thread diverting heavily

Hope you enjoy the holiday and come back rested

Taking a holiday, from what??

J/K have fun, moe. Going anywhere interesting?

BTW, watch what you wish for matress, you'll end up coming back, and CVN and I will be up in the 2000's

Yeah, I've been holding down... Stocking posts... So I can OVERWHELM you when you return Muhahahaha -Romulan emoticon-

I haven't gone just yet! 8O

Even Matresses have ears...(Or would it be eyes in this case?)

And you could have just used my emoticons, CVN.

Of course! Forgot!

Actully if it where star fleet ships vrs star wars ships the battles would be fairly matched (for a few minutes that is).

First the turbo lazers on the stardestroyers, tie fighters and x-wings would be useless, because star fleet shields are almost impervious to lazers.

I remember the next gen episode where they whole crew forgets who they are and attack that minor race. they do a scan and say the minor race ships are armed with lazers and riker scoffs saying they cant even scratch the shields.

As far as phasers against the star destroyer shields, im not sure if they would be effective or not, but photon torpedoes, and quantom torpedoes would have no effect. Both of those are similar to proton torpedoes that the republic use, and they have no effect on shields, only on unshielded targets.

I could see the enterprise d or e vrs a star destroyer.
shields snap up, they rush at each other, star destroyer fires lazers which bonce of the enterprise shields, enterprise fires q-torps that bounce off the star destoyers shields. Star destroyer launches tie fighters,, who also have no effect. enterprise spends several minutes picking off tie fighters, untill vader uses the force and snaps picards neck from afar.

Seing it work, vader continues to snap fed necks one at a time untill no enterprise crew is left alive. Boarding parties go over, secure the enterprise and then both ships fly off to raise more hell.

Tielee

Ahh the endless Star Trek v Star wars debate

Regarding lasers on the star destroyers being ineffective, remember its just semantics, they could be named beams and they still would be effective, anyway the SSD Executor would come along and whoop ass

Stop right there. I've read too much of this stuff to have this thread get swallowed up by pointless questions like, is a turbolaser a laser, can the force work on creatures from another galaxy or not, ect.

In the end it's as pointless as asking who would win between an air-to-air missile and a torpedo.

As for the SSD Executor, (I owed you that)

Granted I know the St universe better than I know the SW universe. But my roomie is an avid SW fan, and from what he says, the SSD are pretty impressive, but they are also just a giant target.

Either way, you dont see walking teddy bears taking out the federation do you? (Tribbles maybe, but only if launched through matress' Super Tribble Weapon.)

I could see the Defiant doing all those awesome evasive moves in 'Shattered Mirror' against a few SW ships. Would raise quite a bit of hell, I'd imagine.

I was glad to read ditl's fanfic. There are prescious few pro-Trek fanfics out there! (now I know of two, and one's my own work-in-progress ). There are a few balanced ones, as well, but they don't get top billing, considering the webmaster that hosts the ones I've seen. (stardestroyer.net)

Most of the Alpha Quadrant powers would OWN the Empire, the problem would be the sheer numbers tossed at them. More fireworks, I say!

But can The Force work through the Federation shields? Can Vader snap a neck of a person he can't see?

Actually ... when you line up both fleets ... the Federation would win. Why? Because the Federation has the most powerfull weapon on their side. While the Empire has The Force, the Federation has a more powerful ally ... Q. Q would never let his "pets" be destroyed by the Empire and he would have much fun playing games with Vader.

Anywone watching the new Battlestar Galatica? Can you imagine the Cylons, chasing down what they believe to be the last of humanity, and then meeting the Federation only to be destroyed by them? That would be very cool.

oh that would be fun...

adama: ftl to the nearest system!

Dee: receiving signal, we have a target (its called something else)

Adama: what are they saying?

Dee: 'Greeting from the United Federation of Planets, we come in peace.'

Adama: Get us out of here - now!

Doing a Fleet by Fleet comparsion, total ship Size, firepower, speed, ect.

This is Without using Cardi's, Ferengi, and Romulan Empires and fleets.

#1 Star Wars Imperial Crusers. 200 + dreadnaughts would fit inside this ship. Galactica would fit inside 6 times.

#2 Galatica is #2 in the huge battleship department.
#3 Would be Cylon Base Star, just slightly smaller then Galatica.
#4 Large Ship Firepower goes to Imperial Crusers. Due to overall surface guns.

A Minus for Galatica, Imperial Crusier, and Base Star.. No shield Protection. So any hits cause heavy damage.
#5 Largest # of small ship fleets. (guessing here) I give it to the Cylon Base Star but only by a small margin. 2nd in line Would be Federation, 3rd Imperial Crusier fleet.
#6 Smaller ships... Firepower - I give this to Federation. Hands down more multiple weapon systems with the added Bonus Of shielding, However! (And this is big), Cylon ships combine firepower with speed and ability to jump in and out of harms way. (Better then Cloaking??)

#7 Speed and manuverability, Hmmm Hard call. Cylon and Galatica ships can turn on a dime. But do not have the speed of the Federation nor weapon systems.

Sorry but with the force or not The Empires smaller ships were not designed for speed.

Fleet Encounters Now this is where things get interesting.

Federation encounter Galatica. ( My Viewpoint only) Long range scanners for Galatica detect a Federation Starbase. Sending out Scout ships for a closer look. Scouts will be out of comunacation range for 2 parsecks. Starbase 631 Detects smaller ships entering Federation space and opens Haling Ferquencies. No Relpy recieved. Sending out 2 scouts and a distroyer to make contact with unknown vessels at warp factor 3. contact in 7 minutes. Federation scouts and Distroyer slow to impluse power. Attempting to contact. No responce. Galatica scouts slow to stop. Attempt to contact. No reply recieved. Shuttle lauched from Distroyer which flys to unknown ships. Galatica Warriors. sit at ready wondering if this is a new type of cylon ship. shuttle slows beside Galatica scout. Both see each other look human.. shuttle signals findings to distroyer who relays to starbase. Orders recieved, "motion ship to dock in distroyer. Shuttle Pilot motions for Galatica scout to follow. Scout radios other to fly back to Galatica and report finds. Well proceed to make further contact.

Galatica Scout follows Federation Shuttle to launch bay. First contact made.

Information is shared.....

Galatica joins Federation. Federation prepares for Cylons as a matter of Precaution.

Need to think out the rest. I'll share thoughts in next post.

Federation destroys cyclons as

Cyclons have: nuclear weapons which are nothing compared to a torpedo hit
no sheilds
use projectile weapons, no energy so have no effect on shields.

Battlestar gets repaired and refuelled, colony ships get santary, battlestar ftl jumps to caprica and discovers cyclon home system.

Sucide mission to take out cyclons ends with a cliff hanger.....