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TrekBoyChris
Captain
Joined: 17 Jun 2005, 01:00 Posts: 1657 Location: USS Victory - NCC 362447
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_________________Star Trek PBEM RPG Group
http://starbase118.net/
Legacy is now here! Buy the XBOX 360 version!
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| 27 Aug 2005, 23:01 |
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Evil_Fluff
Crewman
Joined: 28 Jul 2005, 01:00 Posts: 8 Location: Lost in my lab
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_________________ What's evil about Fluff you ask. nothing... really
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| 29 Aug 2005, 17:57 |
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medic
Crewman
Joined: 08 Aug 2005, 01:00 Posts: 16 Location: England, manchester
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Man physics at A-level used to hurt my brain, especially particle physics bits!  .
Now i just work as a Big Yellow and Green taxi. Most of the voices have stopped now.
NO we haven't....sshhh im talking!. DOH!
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| 30 Aug 2005, 11:24 |
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TrekBoyChris
Captain
Joined: 17 Jun 2005, 01:00 Posts: 1657 Location: USS Victory - NCC 362447
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Medic go see yourself, then it'll stop 
_________________Star Trek PBEM RPG Group
http://starbase118.net/
Legacy is now here! Buy the XBOX 360 version!
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| 30 Aug 2005, 14:23 |
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medic
Crewman
Joined: 08 Aug 2005, 01:00 Posts: 16 Location: England, manchester
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| 30 Aug 2005, 15:18 |
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MajorDiarr
Cadet
Joined: 14 Dec 2004, 01:00 Posts: 95 Location: The Empire State
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1) Protomattar is not required for terraforming, it's not even strictly required for the Genesis Device either. In the movie they said Protomatter was just the best meterial despite it being extremely unstable. The Federation has terraforming ships that were mentioned on a ship list screen in TNG once. As a technology it wouldn't be bad having Genesisforming, that would be a very good one.
2) Completely random invented sciences and techologies have been placed in the list already and it does sound stupid. It still doesn't make sense for these basic technologies to be researched so late in the game when they are required so early in the game. That is why it would be far better to have sensible sounding original fields with descriptions that are not non-sensical. Besides, I have already reorginised and filled in most of the places, only leaving four technologies to be invented and described.
As it is, it is just a random collection of names with randomly applied names. In its current state the names are completely surperfluas since the tech tree is so increadably linear. Leaving Bio-01 and Bio-02 as just that is preferable to having names that don't add anything to the acheivement.
3) Cold fusion is completely different from hot fussion and is thought to be impossible to achive by most scientists. Only the US Navy is doing some minimal research into cold fusion because of oddities in the results of cold fusion related experiments.
4)Then Matter conversion should just be called Replicator technology. Or better yet, keep the name and description I came up with so it is better related to Bio tech.
5) We've seen plasam leaks in Star Trek before, if they were the super heated star temperature plasma you think, then the corridors would emidatly explode and no one would get close enough to use those little plasma extinguishers. There is also the episode where Geordi mentions putting his hand in a plasma stream and it being tingly. Some plasma may be hot but certainly not all of it.
6) Anti-Matter Fusion is a bad reuse. If they want larger anti-matter particles they should be able to just generate larger ones in the first place and I don't know why they would want larger ones. It would just make the particles more difficult to contain.
7) You care, you stated it here, "But if we placed completely random invented sciences and technological fields, it will just sound well, stupid, and too contrived." You are right, it does sound stupid and contrived. Since this game isn't the last game, stupid techs and descriptions such as the one for ultraconductors should be removed. They can be replaced with far more realistic technologies such as room temperature, organic, super conductors. Such things are real or should be someday.
8) ZPE hasn't been used in Star Trek ever to my knowledge. It was used in the Deap Space 9 technical manual which is not canon. If you want a higher energy source, go with Omega Particle research. It doesn't really matter that the research failed, the gleenings of information from it could still be useful. Or you can call it, primordial subspace particle physics, that actualy sounds pretty good.
9) It'll require a complete rewrite of the description but should be all, the name is interesting. Determinacy relates to this word, determinate.
adj.
Precisely limited or defined; definite: a determinate number; a determinate distance.
Conclusively settled; final.
Firm in purpose; resolute.
Botany.
Terminating in a flower and blooming in a sequence beginning with the uppermost or central flower; cymose: a determinate inflorescence.
Not continuing indefinitely at the tip of an axis: determinate growth.
Here are some helpful pages for tech research.
http://www.federationspace-rpg.net/scie ... ience.html
http://www.ditl.org/
http://www.calormen.com/Star_Trek/
_________________ Yes, Forerunner reinforced-unobtanium Ubertrees with handwavium damage-nullification ray-fields. Keeps the property-damage insurance premiums down.
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| 30 Aug 2005, 20:29 |
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ZDarby
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 01:00 Posts: 201 Location: Nor Cal
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_________________ No. I'm not back.
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| 31 Aug 2005, 01:02 |
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MajorDiarr
Cadet
Joined: 14 Dec 2004, 01:00 Posts: 95 Location: The Empire State
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_________________ Yes, Forerunner reinforced-unobtanium Ubertrees with handwavium damage-nullification ray-fields. Keeps the property-damage insurance premiums down.
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| 01 Sep 2005, 08:30 |
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ftranschel
Lieutenant
Joined: 25 May 2005, 01:00 Posts: 328 Location: Hannover, Germany
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| 01 Sep 2005, 09:57 |
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Matress_of_evil
Evil Romulan Overlord of Evil - Now 100% Faster!
Joined: 02 Dec 2004, 01:00 Posts: 7392 Location: Returned to the previous place.
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The energy of the Warp Core comes from the 'explosion' that occurs when Matter and Anti-Matter 'particles' combine in the the Warp Core.
The Dilithium Crystals convert and channel this energy into the Warp coils, providing them with the energy needed to fold Space around the ship, thus creating a Warp Bubble and allowing them to 'travel' through Space at faster-than-light 'speeds'.
The ship itself is not physically moving. Instead, Space itself is being moved around the ship. The Point of origin is pushed away, whilst the destination is pulled closer to the ship, which is why the ship seems to 'stretch' as it goes to Warp. The more finely you can control the 'bubble' of Subspace around the ship, the less energy is wasted, so the 'faster' you can go.
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| 01 Sep 2005, 10:25 |
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ftranschel
Lieutenant
Joined: 25 May 2005, 01:00 Posts: 328 Location: Hannover, Germany
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That's actually something that I cannot agree on. The energy of a (sub)atomic particle is defined by it's mass (E=mc²) ans it's speed. Thus, the released energy in a matter/antimatter reaction is constant. Common modern physics also says in a given system the energy is always constant in the sum of all paticles and their speeds. I'd like to know how this Trek-generated energy-out-of-nowhere is supposed to be explained 
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| 01 Sep 2005, 11:27 |
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MajorDiarr
Cadet
Joined: 14 Dec 2004, 01:00 Posts: 95 Location: The Empire State
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_________________ Yes, Forerunner reinforced-unobtanium Ubertrees with handwavium damage-nullification ray-fields. Keeps the property-damage insurance premiums down.
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| 02 Sep 2005, 05:09 |
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downsizeit
Crewman
Joined: 11 May 2005, 01:00 Posts: 24
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| 02 Sep 2005, 15:25 |
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jigalypuff
Jig of the Puff
Joined: 10 Sep 2004, 01:00 Posts: 1305 Location: I wish i knew
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| 02 Sep 2005, 19:20 |
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ZDarby
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 01:00 Posts: 201 Location: Nor Cal
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_________________ No. I'm not back.
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| 03 Sep 2005, 01:46 |
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MajorDiarr
Cadet
Joined: 14 Dec 2004, 01:00 Posts: 95 Location: The Empire State
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Downsizeit, I think Voyger has the most technicle exposition of any of the shows regarding ship systems.
Compairing an internal combustion engine to a warp core doesn't work. To your first example, internal combustion engines are heat engines, therefore it is better for them to be hot when when working also the Voyager reference isn't in regard to cold starting or restarting the warp core but specificaly to the "dilithium matrix". A gradual build up in regard to actualy starting the warp core makes sense in that it should take greater power to contain the greater reactions as power production is ramped up. As power production increases, it can use that power to maintain its containment apparatus.
Again, not a good comparison. By your example, what is being said is really along the lines of, "The car has an air powered engine." It's not strictly correct, in this case the air and dilithium are catalysts, while the gasoline and M/AM are the reactants. However, in the case of the warp core, it is the dilithium that is producing the greater energy, where as the gasoline has the greater energy in the combustion engine.
You haven't said anything contridictory to the quote and conclusion. The dilithium and power generation are stated directly in relation to each other and stated what it could power. There was no mention of the Equinox's smaller warp core powering Voyager.
The explosives quote shows dilithium, rather an isotope of it, being used for an explosive, as in an energy source.
Dilithium crystal isn't an energy field, I never implied it was, it has an energy field that can be disrupted, maintaned, reenforced. Lasers amplification if that works does it through refraction and lensing if I'm not mistaken. Dilithium is a meterial that is somehow transparent to matter, not just EM radiation, it's a completely different thing.
*****************************************************************
The regeneration of the cyrstal may most likely have to do with the type of regeneration done in The Voyager Home, in fact it is quite likely, except that later on it has been refered to by a different term when Scotty was on the Enteprise-D. However, if it were just a normal physical latice of molecules or dilithium atoms then, to my knowledge, a type of radiation should not be able to bolster the crystal's matrix and strange energy fields shouldn't cause the matrix to collapse. This goes with the oddity of the meterial supposedly bieng transparent to matter and non-reactive with anti-matter in some degree.
Actualy, we saw pretty much the same thing when Riker and Picard were conducting battle exercises. There were some dilithium shards left in the ship Riker was to use. In this case the limit is the crystal and not the anti-matter because once Wesley got the anti-matter from his own experiment, Riker or Geordi said that the dilithium would then be just enough for a quick warp jump, rather than the anti-matter being enough. Or it was stated earlier and Wesley's anti-matter made it possible.
Did you forget the Heisenberg Compensator? They can track both position and momentum of a particle, really trillions of particles, without scewing the result of either measurement. They should be able to find the indivigual frequencies of any mass of particles.
Trilithium being only chemicaly different doesn't go into why it is used as an explosive when anti-matter should, pound for pound, be the most potent explosive and has been shown to be so easly contained that a child, Wesley, was allowed to have his own supply of anti-matter for a personal experiment. The same experiment he used to power Riker's ship, if you wanted to know. It also doesn't go into how Federation ships are able to produce more energy than their own mass in energy.
_________________ Yes, Forerunner reinforced-unobtanium Ubertrees with handwavium damage-nullification ray-fields. Keeps the property-damage insurance premiums down.
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| 03 Sep 2005, 18:49 |
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ZDarby
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 01:00 Posts: 201 Location: Nor Cal
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MajorDiarr:
Well. I'm afraid we're at an impass. I am closed minded on the idea of "dilithium matrix" being an energy field. And you're mind is closed to it being the very crystaline structure of dilithium.
We have both made up our minds on the subject and neither of us will change the other's opinion. Because of my opinion of where the energy is coming from, I like antimatter fusion. And for yours, you do not. I'm not going to get into a debate you've obviously had repeatedly and are bored of.
_________________ No. I'm not back.
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| 05 Sep 2005, 06:23 |
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Matress_of_evil
Evil Romulan Overlord of Evil - Now 100% Faster!
Joined: 02 Dec 2004, 01:00 Posts: 7392 Location: Returned to the previous place.
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Damn! And it was just getting interesting!
Oh well, we'll have to think of something else to discuss...anyone fancy discussing Artificial Quantum Singularities again? 
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| 05 Sep 2005, 10:44 |
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TrekBoyChris
Captain
Joined: 17 Jun 2005, 01:00 Posts: 1657 Location: USS Victory - NCC 362447
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I'm sure they'll be a big discussion on the asteroids Romulas and Remus (see General Chat)
_________________Star Trek PBEM RPG Group
http://starbase118.net/
Legacy is now here! Buy the XBOX 360 version!
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| 05 Sep 2005, 10:57 |
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MajorDiarr
Cadet
Joined: 14 Dec 2004, 01:00 Posts: 95 Location: The Empire State
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_________________ Yes, Forerunner reinforced-unobtanium Ubertrees with handwavium damage-nullification ray-fields. Keeps the property-damage insurance premiums down.
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| 06 Sep 2005, 19:24 |
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downsizeit
Crewman
Joined: 11 May 2005, 01:00 Posts: 24
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| 06 Sep 2005, 19:34 |
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Matress_of_evil
Evil Romulan Overlord of Evil - Now 100% Faster!
Joined: 02 Dec 2004, 01:00 Posts: 7392 Location: Returned to the previous place.
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| 06 Sep 2005, 19:54 |
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MajorDiarr
Cadet
Joined: 14 Dec 2004, 01:00 Posts: 95 Location: The Empire State
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_________________ Yes, Forerunner reinforced-unobtanium Ubertrees with handwavium damage-nullification ray-fields. Keeps the property-damage insurance premiums down.
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| 06 Sep 2005, 22:26 |
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ZDarby
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 01:00 Posts: 201 Location: Nor Cal
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_________________ No. I'm not back.
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| 07 Sep 2005, 07:53 |
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ZDarby
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 01:00 Posts: 201 Location: Nor Cal
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_________________ No. I'm not back.
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| 09 Apr 2007, 08:04 |
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Azhdeen
Lieutenant
Joined: 31 May 2006, 01:00 Posts: 451
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_________________ -Azh
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| 09 Apr 2007, 16:25 |
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Matress_of_evil
Evil Romulan Overlord of Evil - Now 100% Faster!
Joined: 02 Dec 2004, 01:00 Posts: 7392 Location: Returned to the previous place.
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| 09 Apr 2007, 19:00 |
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mstrobel
Chief Software Engineer
Joined: 11 Aug 2005, 01:00 Posts: 2688
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_________________ Lead Developer of Star Trek: Supremacy 253,658 lines of code and counting...
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| 09 Apr 2007, 21:49 |
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ZDarby
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 01:00 Posts: 201 Location: Nor Cal
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_________________ No. I'm not back.
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| 10 Apr 2007, 02:14 |
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Azhdeen
Lieutenant
Joined: 31 May 2006, 01:00 Posts: 451
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Whoops, I missed that, ha.
I may have an issue with requiring two or more current technologies in order to build a normal building. For example, if you require computers 12 and construction 12 in order to build Type 12 Replicators, I'd probably have a problem with the computers requirement, mainly because it doesn't really make much sense to me. I think the only technology that needs to be at the same level as the Type Level you are trying to build is the core technology; all of the supporting technology can be 1-5 levels lower because it's, well, just supporting technology. Plus, this allows the player to have a little bit more flexibility to focus on certain areas of research. For example, I usually concentrate on construction so I can improve my system output. But in terms of the Type 12 replicator, I would also have to concentrate on computers equally with construction. I definitely like how the player is forced to be "well-rounded" in terms of research, but I still would like to see the player be able to choose a specific research path. I don't want people too well-rounded, heh.
I could *definitely* see requiring computers and construction for a special building, however. Like, for example...the Utopia Planitia Shipyards. I could easily see a requirement of, say, Construction 6, Computers 6, Energy 5, Biology 3, Weapons 4, and Propulsion 5 (I'm pulling numbers out of my ass to simply outline what I'm saying.) Clearly, a specific structure like this would require the best computer and construction techniques available. Energy and propulsion are pretty important, which is why they're only one level lower. Weapons are somewhat important in terms of starship design, but they don't really improve the construction process much. And biology probably has the least effect on starship construction, but does still play a role, thus, the lower requirement. Feel free to adjust the tech levels to whatever as I simply wanted to explain what I was saying.
Would it make more sense to, instead of requiring technology levels for special structures to instead require certain levels of "normal" buildings to be constructed? For example... wouldn't it be somewhat silly if I had Construction 6 researched, but still only had Type 2 Replicators and attempted to build Utopia Planetia? Or built a Subatomic Simulator with only Type 1 plasma generators? I mean... I guess it doesn't matter.... The simulators require X number of energy and if you can produce it with only Type 1's, more power to you (same for Utopia Planetia and the Type 2 replicators). But it's just a thought.
I tend to kill threads when I post too. So if I have plenty of time to respond, this could become a looooong discussion (longer than it already is) :p
_________________ -Azh
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| 10 Apr 2007, 14:58 |
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