I dont really have any real life sci-fi friends, so i never really asked this, but why do people h8 enterprise. I was just watchig season 3 and 4 over the last few weeks, and well it truely is emotional. Its gritty and shows flaws in people, and not clean and shiny like TNG. I thought the cast was gr8 if slightly under used (does any1 remember maywhether or hoshi?) but it really gave gripping storylines. I dont understand y trekkie h8ed it. or scifi people in general!?

Explain?

i loved it, best trek programme ever.

I think maybe the whole temperal cold war and the messing with timelines is what people mainly didn't like about it and for that neither did i, but i dont care really if its trek i watch it even if its bad i watch it as i enjoy mainly anything of trek.

But also some people felt the characters wernt like trek enough I think due to the unfamilir non starfleet uniforms and protocalls or way of doing things.

Also I supose another thing i supose i never liked was how fast the weapons and technology got upgraded and phasers were really quickly introduced.

Best bits i liked were mainly the expanse episodes as it had them on a purpose although i feel it ran on for too many episodes but more stories like that would have made Ent much more popular i feel. Thats why most people thought s4 was great, it was just the previous seasons that let it down.

I didn't mind the temporal stuff...although maybe they over did it...but the acting wasn't great...the stories didn't get good till the 4th season....and I hated the fact that they ignored the normal Trek timeline...

I actually loved the idea of seeing the beginnigs of the Federation. Life wasn't perfect and there was actually tension between the humans and vulcans. It felt more realistic. I hated the temporal cold war. I'm using the word hate here.

I really liked the show, despite the many flaws it had. I haven't got the chance to watch the last 2 seasons because here in Arg they are waiting a little bit more to broadcast it.
Anyway, i think the reasons most people didn't like the show were:
1- The tech looks > Many buttons, screens, panels, etc looked more advanced than those of TOS.
2- Several plot holes and inconsistences (some i found by myself, some i read about)
3- Characters (read that somewhere too)

Personally, i tried not to put too much attention to all those details, i really enjoyed the show.

What upset me about Enterprise is that it seemed that the show was finally starting to get on track - The Vulcan stuff and the episodes with the romulan remote control spaceship. Then the show was cancelled. It seemed a shame that once they were beginning to finally explain what led to further series canon, the plug was pulled.

Although I find the temporal cold war/hot war a distraction, some of it became quite interesting.

I liked Ent because it revealed a lots of new thinks.....Thinks you didn't now of the Vulcans and Romulans.........The poor think about Ent was: The Klingons came with a D-6 Battlecruiser............

I mean how long is this type of ships in surface Almoust 200 !!! years 8O Isn't that a little to long?

Although ENT is not my favourite Trek series, i still enjoy watching many of the episodes. If they'd carried on with the Final 3 seasons it would have been great, something to beat TNG (current fave) off top spot

My only explanation of that D-6 cruiser is that they liked the design and later just build a ship with it with better technology.

About Enterprise, i didn't like the fact of all this timetravel, it seemed that the writers got obsessed with it, it started with Voyager and now this. First of all it's completely impossible that's what makes it even more unrealistic and it didn't contributed to the actual story that should have took place. The starting of the Federation and the beginning and end of the romulan war. Don't say me they couldn't have stuffed it into 4 years of episoeds? And although i didn't liked the Sphere Builders, Xindi, That Xindi Sphere, i still watched them. Yet then it happened they started off with more stuff abourt vulcans, romulans, andorians, it finally became interesting, and Paramount pull the plug. 8O It's one the most annoying things that i have witnessed in the movie/series history. I think StarTrek needs new writes the once they have now, just create tomany stories that don't contribute to the big picture and are just of bad quality.

I didn't care that the Enterprise was looking more advanced than TOS, TOS is just old and unrealistic and doesn't fit and although i liked 3 movies of Kirk and his crew, i didn't liked TOS that much (although i've watched a great deal of episodes). And tell me how could they have looked it even less then TOS? Perhaps a few big square buttons that you have to hit with a hammer or something?

Unfortunally, I hadn't got the opportunity to watch the 4th episode. Enterprise had had some good episodes, but there were to many stupid ones. In Germany, the whole Xindi-thing seems like a recreation of the American War against terrorism, but this time the Americans are the good, innocent people...´Archer tortured some people and noone said "Well, this wasn't a good idea, John." (like they did it in DS9, I refer to "In the pale moonlight")

The whole Xindi-thing didn't realy match with the Star Trek Timeline, because there were no attacs on Earth even mentioned. But no, they needed to create new enemies instead of using older ones, like Klingons, Romulans, Gorn and maybe some small races.

Allthough I have never seen the first 2 episodes of the 4th season, I hate this stupid idea of using Nazis in Enterprise. It's a shame, dealing with such a toppic. I do not mind dealing with the Nazis at all, but not as faceless enemies, they were ordinary people. My two grandfathers wore those uniforms, not because they loved Hitler,but because they had too. Or do you think every American soldier loves George W. Bush?

I'm sorry, I am getting offtopic, but I hate such things. The character-development was strange. T'Pol taking drugs, Mayweather, Hoshi and Reed only background characters. Well, Phlox too.

I think the idea was good and I liked the 2nd season, the episodes were really good. But the 3rd season? I had problems understanding the plot due I wasn't able to watch every episode.

I also disagre with the name of the ship.......Enterprise.......I think they hat to take another name because there are to many enterprise's.....they could have taken the Columbia for example.....

I didnt mind ENT but that cold war timetravle stuff was a load of rubbish! Its all becuase you have to start thinking about time travel and how it cant be changed!

My personal opion is that if you go back in time you were ment to go back in time so if everything you do was suposed to happen and that series of ENT didnt make sense

Although i did enjoy the last two series i thought that they were more thought through and much better (no time jumping!)

About time travel:

If you go back in time, you create a different time-line. Which is the flaw in every ST-episode regarding time travel. Even if you don't DO anything in the past, you alter time by your very existance there. This means that if you go back to your original time one of two things can happen: Either you return to your time in your OWN timeline (and thus you weren't actualy in the past since you where in the past of another timeline) and nothing you did or happened will affect anything since it didn't happen in your timeline. This is rather pointless..
Or... (and this is what supposedly happens in Star Trek) you return to your time in the Timeline of which you altered the past. BUT. This means you already exist in that timeline (since you have been born and all before you get back in your time). You never left, since you actualy came from another timeline. So now there are two persons which are you in the same time. This automatically means that you will never get back to your original timeline and thus just vanished there and whatever you set out to do won't happen there anyway.

Bottom line: I think time travel is possible. But you cannot travel back and forth within your own timeline. Those events are set in stone. If you travel in time, you travel through different timelines and envoke the various conflicts stated above.

This doesn't apply to ENT only. It applies to lots of episodes Voyager, it applies to the entire movie 'First Contact', etc. etc. Those things are plain impossible. I recall a famous Vulcan science director that has determined that "Time travel is impossible".

This all doesn't mean the episodes and movies aren't fun to watch, though. I actually enjoyed the Temporal Cold War! Altough it was complete rubbish, it did't bother me or anything.

Thats all true i agree thats kinda what i was trying to say but in a hell of a lot more detail!

Although I agree with the theory posed...I believe that the various dimensions can be crossed and you can reach a timeline that you attempt to create....however, you really can't say this is how it happens. They are all theories, and until someone time travels...or more work is done on it...we won't know what is "true".

Star Trek was funny because it used all the different theories in the show. As if Time could work in a multiple of ways depending on how the time travel happened.

I didn't like the first two seasons much but season four was good and then it ended.

Not counting the final episdoe Season 4 was the best. It got better as the seasons progressed. You only wonder what would have hppened if they'd carried on

I'm curious, what did you think of the last episode? Did you go with all the sentimentality (all good things..., here's to the next generation... ect.) or did you just find it annoying?

didnt mind the last episode but i didnt like the fact that tucker dided! he only descent one amoung the lot and found it a pain when he bit the bullet in such a way! he sould of died fighting a hundred kligions and saved the fedartion or something not just to save MR SUPER CAPTAIN archer!

I really liked Enterprise. I don't like it when Trekkies swear to TOS and TNG as the Star Trek bible. What many forget is this is Fantasy. It's nice to have structure and a chain of events, but you can't complain that Enterprise doesnt have enough weapons and is getting it's butt handed to it and turn around and complain that they got new weapons too fast. I think these die-hard treksters need to turn off thier brain and just enjoy the plot, a couple of ship explosions and the occasional hot Vulcan or Borg Princess.

When you look at what Enterprise tried to achieve, it was very difficult. Enterprise tried to not only explain the beginnings of the Federation, but also to attract potential Trekkies. One of the advantages of DS9 and Voyager is they went into the future and into undiscovered quadrants. The writers had alot of room to run. Enterprise had history that was already semi established. Rules were going to be broken, if only to keep the plot interesting.

Sorry for the rant but YOU TOOK MY T'PAL

Hey there, Triclosan, welcome to the site!

Your rant is something that a lot of people with a bit of common sense have repeated many times before.

The simple truth of the matter is that we trekkies do tend to get caught up in trek - that's why we're known as trekkies afterall! We can't help it!

You're right about what Enterprise tried to achieve - attracting new fans whilst keeping the fans happy is an almost impossible task. The fans want big, arcing storylines with lots of background references and a timeline that 'fits'.

The casual watcher however, wants big battles, lotsa weapons, an 'invincible' enemy, and loads of special effects. The stories have to be short and sweet, to the point, and have little or no references to past episodes/knowledge.

Whilst you'll be hard pressed to find someone who would say no to a big space-battle, the rest of the points are very hard to put together into one storyline. Striking a balance should have been the ultimate goal of the producers, but ultimately, they got it a bit wrong - at least at the start.

This turned some of the fans against it from the first episode, and from there on, it was downhill. These fans stopped watching it, (Without giving it a decent chance) and started saying how much they didn't like it, quoting only the broken timeline as their reason for doing so.

Some people who might have missed the first episode(s) were likely put off by the comments about it, so they themselves never watched it. Then there are others who were basically brainwashed by those that didn't like it.

By the time Enterprise started getting good, there were relatively few people watching it, and their voices were overcast by those that didn't.

It's only now that it has been cancelled that people are realising what a big mistake they've made. As always, it is simply too late.

People don't HATE Enterprise, they just misunderstood it, got too wrapped up in timelines and technology, and didn't give it the chance it deserved.

To tell the truth all i've seem of the Final Episode are various snippits on tv and previews of it. "Here's To The Next Generation" made my stomach turn though. Thought that was lousy - a cheap was to finish

enterprise was my favorite because it wasn't the usual sanitized hold hands and give peace a chance crap, and prime directive this, and wesley crusher BS that was rampant in TNG, and Voy. It died before its time. True, I really don't like time travel stories, But Voy and TNG leaned on Q pretty hard for stories, pretty lame ones at that, with the exeption of "tapestry" and the Voyager one with the Q who wanted to off himself. At least Ent had a cool series premier, unlike the cosmic jellyfish of TNG, the unconvincing Maquis/ Ocampa snorefest Voy. enterprise had a wealth of untapped potential, and was the only series that had a complete and competent cast. I was furious that the series finale was one hour, and centered heavily on two of the weakest characters in Trek Lore, Troi and Riker.

I couldn't agree more that the final episode was the worst one made in the entire show. Though you have to imagine that the final episode probably was written at the start of the series and was completely different from the one we saw now. Enterprise was meant to last the ordinary 7 seasons. Though since they pulled the plug so damn soon, they had to come up with a completely different way to end the series.
If they'd only expanded a bit on the episode with Terra Prime and made that one the final episode they would be fine..

i loved it too, good actors and i thought it really tied the other series in

Get real okeey? Real life isn't StarTrek. StarTrek is just a small bit of scientific truth and the rest is just bull. I've seen the same in the now deleted religious thread, i guess most people aren't realistic and have watched to much hollywood movies and have heard to much stuff from people that haven't got a clue what the purpose of life is.

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Okeey why was the plug pulled? The cost for each episode was just to much, Paramount wants to make money. I haven't seen the last episode of the series yet, so thank you for the spoilers . I've seen loads of really bad stories, the once that were good, were about Borg, Q, Dominion, and stuff like that. That's the problem with the writes of StarTrek, is it really that hard to say that there is a new crew needed, who really write up stuff that actually makes sence. I mean most of us could have put up a better story then the Xindi incident. They had to do more with the Romulans, Gorn, Klingons, Vulcans, Andorians, and other species that we have come to known. The story tells us stuff about what happened in that timeframe, so why even put stuff in like a Xindi race? This is no anger i just think that we won't see another serie, at least not in awhile... (Why didn't they want to use my Akira idea !!! . Life goes on .

And yet the actors were really good, but they were also good in DS9, a bit less in Voyager (my personal opinion). I just saw this incredible boring stupid story of the mirror universe, only about cast as they are in the mirror universe... Hope that the next episode will be a bit more entertaining.

Originally posted by Centurion_VarDin:

Bottom line: I think time travel is possible. But you cannot travel back and forth within your own timeline. Those events are set in stone. If you travel in time, you travel through different timelines and envoke the various conflicts stated above.
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Time travel is indeed possible... but only for one person in one direction thus far!
This was proven by a scientific experiment that took place this decade, with two atomic clocks. The experiment went as such! One atomic clock was placed in a Mac 3 jet for 2 hours while the other stayed on the ground! Both clocks worked by atomic decay and were 100% in sink with each other! After the Mac 3 clock landed it was behind the one on the ground meaning: “Timeâ€￾ was actually slower for the man in the jet while “Timeâ€￾ as we know it continued at its “normal paceâ€￾; thus the man in the jet literally is from the past because he is behind the rest of the world. This proves the theory of relativity. The faster you go the slower “time isâ€￾

I wish I still knew where the source was for this read! But the page was removed. However it was in a scientific journal.

yes i've read the report. But there it goes. How can we know that pressure, altitude, speed and gravitation didn't influenced the atomic clock? Sure the scientists say so, they don't even know why a certain bee can actually fly or how it's possible that dolphins can gain speeds like they do (perhaps they know bynow?) Anyway what i'm trying to say, is that it's probally something else then a time difference. Everything we do isn't set in stone, we have to make our own decision every minute of time. If we are currently living in a timeline then all we do doesn't matter. You get my point? My reasoning tells me that the future doesn't exists yet, why? Because everything we do, every change we make will change the future that we are going to have, thus making it impossible to timetravel.

I didn't mean time travel was possiable in the sense most are thinking i'm saying it is possiable to send a human "into the future" however he/she cannot go back! it is a idea that while a human from the "past" does not age and the rest of the world around him/her does, in theory he/she is traveling through a timeline that he/she in the natural world would have died off! Hence, it is possiable to send a human "into the future" by means of slowing or stopping his or her aging.

WOW how confuessing.... to much to explain i hope you understand what i mean now!