hi
iv been visiting a few months now and its great to see someone working on a botf 2 project. Hopefully this time it really is "for real". The image of your site is great (very trekky) but its not exacly laid out well is it and its only updated like what? once per month? The question everyone keeps asking is when are you going to release this game? and each time you reply with a more inpatientlym but I think the real question is "how far have you got this week?".

this is just a suggestion but I think you should make a lot of improvements to this website if you want to get more attention from the botf fans out there. That way your chances of finding more willing specialists to help with your project will be higher.

When I say website improvements I mean you need to lay everything out properly, you need a whole section telling the fans what features we are going to see in this game and how much you have improved it rather than directing us to forums and interviews. You need to update the news much more frequently telling us how far you have got this week etc. On the main page you need advertise requests for specilists ie programmers, graphics designers etc and most importantly, to keep everyones mind at ease you need to put on the main page "ETA of demo release" even if its "Early-Mid 2006" and update that ETA as you get closer to a release. That way your forum wont get "cluttered" with pointless questions that have already been answered and the site will surely get a lot more hits and people that will visit frequently? I mean lets face it, if you dont update more frequently people are simply going to forget about it.

Just a suggestion

Hey there, Fearless, welcome to the forums!

To be honest, you've chosen the right name - there will probably be many people on the site that want to kill you for some of the things you just said - but i'm not one of them.

I agree that the forums could do with sprucing up to get people interested again. The news section of the site doesn't really contain much information, and there hasn't been any adverts since...well, the site's creation in September 2004. (The site was updated in 2005 which is why the site stats. don't go all the way back to Sep. 2004)

You have to remember though, that this is a fan-made game. Gavin isn't being paid to do it, and he doesn't have the resources of a company like EA or Atari. If problems arise, he can't simply recruit someone else to take over or just throw money at it.

They become giant hurdles that need to be overcome, which is why there have been numerous delays.

If you've been reading the forums lately, you'll also know that Gavin has decided that the game will be a multi-platform release. This one decision alone effectively doubles his workload, pushing back the release even further.

Now you could argue that Gavin could ask for help, as he did back when he started the project. The way I see it though, is that Gavin prefers to work on his own. If he does all the programming work himself, then he knows that every aspect of the game will work.

The moment that someone else takes over, he can't guarantee that anymore.

Now i've never met him. I've never spoken to him online, nothing. But I have been here on the forums for a very long time, and I know some people who have talked to him. I've read his posts and gleaned as much information as I can about the way the game is going, and that is the conclusion I have come to.

I may be entirely wrong about it, but that's how I believe he likes to work.

Now I know you're only talking about making a few changes to the website, but how can you update it the website with any measure of accuracy without Gavin's input?

Unless Gavin takes time out of making the game, he can't do it. He has a personal life - as does everyone else. Soemtimes things just get in the way.

The "public face" of the game has always been Jigalypuff, and he did the job well. He was a friend of Gavin's, but even he had trouble getting info about Gavin's progress. Now that he isn't a part of the dev team anymore, he can't provide any up to date information. This job is now in the hands of Skeeter and Iwulff - and trust me when I say it isn't a job I envy.

How would you like to keep 1500 people on the site happy by telling them that you simply don't know the answers to their questions?

There are good points and bad points about the way gavin is working, and to be honest, he'd be the perfect Nintendo programmer.

Yes there have been delays, yes things have changed since the game's concept. The fact of the matter is that it is still being worked on, it'll just take longer than everyone thought.

It would be nice to have changes, but I just don't see them happening.

Everyone has their own ideas though, and maybe i'll be proved wrong - in fact I hope I am. Coz then at least we'll have some more screenies or something.

This thread will probably spark a big discussion, for which I thank you. it would be nice to see the forums come alive again...even if resistance is futile.

Welcome to the forums.

Hey thanks for the welcome, sorry to suddenly join and intrude with my suggestions lol its just my ideas of improving the project. I understand its only privately fan owned. Nah Gavin doesnt have to do anything, we have already got lots of information from his recent interview, that interview is a start, all the information he provided should be added to the site in a "features" section. If the site is updated with every little piece of information they get then that 1500 fans could be increased to 10000+ I didnt even know this project was so serious until I listened to that interview last month. You should make it loud and clear to all the visitors who come to this site just how big this project is...

To be honest I couldnt agree more with what fearless is saying.

Ye i'm with you Jade. I agree with what you said Fearless.

btw Welcome To The Forums

I never said I was against any changes, I just said that I thought it would be unlikely for them to happen.

Anyways, if you want information about the game, Fearless, just say. I can give you links to all bits and pieces about the game.

I save interesting stuff in my favourites list for newbies like you (Well, you're not exactly a newbie if you've been lurking as you say but whatever) just let me know, and see what i've got for you.

You can have the Database as well, if you want.

MOE is always there to write veryyyy long answers including all the information you can possibly want to know about... everything really! Just to help new arrivals

Yeah... Well. My pov is like this:

I prefer those working on the program to do just that and not spend their time making improvements to the site, no matter how much I want to see the site made cooler.

Now, if someone else (Neither I nor a Dev) would like to volunteer to spearhead this project (nudge, nudge) I'd be willing to try to be of help -- I just wanna run the operation.

Welcome Fearless. Glad you're aboard.

I think most of us agree with what Mister Fearless is saying here. I even think most of us secretly agree with the things other people have been saying about the site. I know I do.

The only problem is with the tone most people have when they "ask" (or demand is more suited) for updates and such. The question Fearless posed is perfectly valid and, most of all, polite. The only thing that could be said is that this topic should actualy be in the announcement topic about this on the top of the forums page.

It remains Gavin's call, of couse. And if he doesn't want it to change, it won't change. But the one thing I know, is that he can most easily 'recruit' someone from this very board with experience with php and HTML who is willing to maintain this site and update it every now and then without any compensation whatsoever.

But, he doesn't. And we can do nothing but accept that decision and wait patiently for the game to finish. Which will happen, inevitably.

yeah.....fearless....you are right....maybe we could chance the site a little bit to get more people to the site......but I think it must not be the task of the people who work on the project......like ZDarby said ....there must be some people who are willing to do this.........but first we must now what Jig and gavin other people want to do.....

Btw...welkom to the forum fearless>>>I hope whe hear more of you

the only people who can change the whole layout of the site is myself or afc.
gavin can post news, but he has choosen not to do so.
i am meeting him soon in london and then i will post all relevent information.

Im gald to hear that Jiggly!

I guess ill expand on my blunt reply lol.

I think the site is fine looks wise it is very treky. But i think that maybe it needs a bit more on the progress. I mean we all know its in the forum but people who are new to the site and dont understand how it works maybe wont look there.

Maybe just on the home page have links to the ships and stations threads to give some insite on what the games ships will be like etc or just host the image of some of the favorite ship models.

Its only an idea but from what I understand many ships have been made but not posted, I would like to see all the completed ships but i know the creators of these ships are busy working on the next one and dont really have time to post them all. I think we do need a middle man who does have the time to do these things to help the fans stay interested.

I for one have been visiting the site less because of the lack of news on the games progress but still will check the site daily just incase.

These are only ideas and are in no way ment to put unwanted pressure on the team.

Yes exacly. Don't know about all of you but when i first visit a new game site i don't usually go straight to the forums, i research it first. There needs to be a database of all the ships, buildings races and all the other general improvements and a middle man needs to fit that on the site.

Wait! You mean there's a website outside the forum?? Where is this jewel in the lotus? Have I been missing it all these many moonths? Gosh! Do I feel embarrassed!

wlecome to the forum fearless hope you like it

hm,mmmm personaly i love MOEs two page answers something to do lol


PS- moe im back online now so txt me next time ur online but dont wait hidden again or we be there for a while lol

ive been coming here since late 2004, and have no idea whats done and whats not, its all scattered. why not just get someone to do compile model lists etc? what happened to that once a week question time? I know people come on here and give attitude, but i understand where they are coming from but without hte hostility.

This is a game development website and forum, yet no1 has any idea whats developed whats not. it would be so easy to get a list of ships and a few pics of each, just to give people something to look at. all we see nowadays is borging to 100Ghz or Bsg threads. nothing really game related.

Lets try and look like this as a business, if gavin cant get the game out anytime fast well so be it, but everyones elses contributes should be shown, so other peoples who are new can have a general idea.

This has been going since late 2003.... where can people go to see what there is?