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Romulous wrote:
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If you think racism is in encoded into our DNA, I suggest you retake your genetics class, Michaelangelo. Though it is easy te say that so you have an excuse not to try and improve it.

I'm going to agree with michae1ange1o on this. It is accepted that human beings evolved to be tribal (because a tribe is more likely to survive then an individual) and developed a fear of those who are not in the tribe.
Because members of the same tribe likely shared many genes over time they would look alike and hence fear of outsiders would become fear of those who look different.

The behavior of our ancestors is why they survived while those with a different genetic disposition did not. While we should not let instinct override intelegence we should not discount what has worked in the evolutionary process for hundreds of thousands of years.


While your reasonning does have merrit it only realy proves why people of different groups do not (in general) look alike. People may be afraid of the unknown. But in this world the islam and other cultures aren't that unknown anymore. At least not if you just try to learn something about them.
And realy, is it that scary to see a group of 4 or so guys or girls with an arrabic appearance standing somewhere?

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18 Dec 2005, 12:39
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Skeeter wrote:
Yeah there are a few small places like bermingham that arnt as acceptable to multiculture.

"Small places" like Birmingham? Isn't Brummieville the second largest city in England? :D

Romulous wrote:
I'm going to agree with michae1ange1o on this. It is accepted that human beings evolved to be tribal (because a tribe is more likely to survive then an individual) and developed a fear of those who are not in the tribe.
Because members of the same tribe likely shared many genes over time they would look alike and hence fear of outsiders would become fear of those who look different.

I'm sorry, but that is just seven different shades of wrong. That statement couldn't be more wrong supposing it was said by Professor Wrong and translated through his "wrong machine".

What you are describing is essentially a state of mind. A kind of brainwashing if you will. That is inherently different than 'genetic coding'.

Put it this way. My eldest son Jack, used to love seeing spiders. Me, the eight legged little bastards freak me out. I hate them. So after a little prompting - for his own safety - Jack now wants to crush kill and destroy any spider he sees. He's a rabid little arachno-killer these days. And all it took was a few firm reminders that spiders can be dangerous and not something to be liked or played with.

Throw in my own little play on this too. Just to annoy my wife (well not really annoy, but you know... :D ), I have taught him since he could talk that God's name is Eric Cantona. He's now five. You ask him who God is, and instinctively, without so much as a second thought, he replies "Eric Cantona" (Which is soooooooo 8) :D ). He has, in effect, been brainwashed twice. It is extremely simple to do, especially if you start from a young age. If I was a die hard christian, obviously he would answer Jehovah, because that is what I would have drummed into him.

Now that's all well and fun when it's something as harmless (harmless until he goes to his first scripture class at school anyway :P ) as my example here, but think about how easy it would be to change God to black, and Eric Cantona to nigger. To prompt him to hate black people rather than/as well as spiders. It is sooooo easy, and before you know it, you have a racist on your hands who will stay that way forever unless he is taught differently early enough.

Just as hating spiders or believing that God's name is Eric Cantona wasn't genetically coded, neither is racism. It is a state of mind, and a result of upbringing/experience.


22 Dec 2005, 14:28
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tsk i hate spiders too but i dont fear em because somebody told me to fear em, I regularly watch this tv proggy about chimps our closest living relatives because they make me want to laugh, In it they did a snake test, they placed a rubber snake in the cage before they let the chimps out, only one of the chimps had ever seen a snake before so it stood way back and got a stick, the others freaked and went nuts at the sight of it, only the one who had seen the snake before knew how to handle snakes, The one that had the stick was tought how to handle the situation but the others didnt, why did they freak? likewise when they added a strange chimp to another group they alienated it and even attacked it, it's all genetic instinct "your not from my tribe and you look different stay away" your correct to some degree which is why the first white explorers were attacked and killed by black tribesmen hunnerds of years ago because they fit the tribesmens image of ghosts and demons, Yet the first spanish visitors were welcomed with open arms by the Aztek's when the conquistadors, led by Hernán Cortés met the tribal image of a god with white skin and a beard dressed all in black. In a nutshell we all have it in us to be curious/fear something different that isnt tought and some tend to express this fear/curiosity with violance and hatred and others just accept and live let live, in the end we NEED to integrate and no longer be different to put these primitive instinct's behind us. Look up Comparative genetic's, The Human animal, Racism and genetic's.
Genetic's dictate how you look, they dictate weather your naturaly intelligent or fik, they say you have it in you to be an athlete or stuck in a wheel chair, do you believe being gay is genetic or something learned? do you believe that genetic's dictate your going to be schizophrenic? or the fact my nephiew had to take beta blockers from a young age due to violant behaviour because he was brought up to be violant or it was a product of his enviroment?. can racism be nothing more than a basic animal instinct inherited from our ape ancestors to be scared of something unknown?. I'm not an expert on genetic's i can only theorise so i wont say 100% yes and i wont say 100% no but i believe in yes like some people beleive in Aliens, if anyone states they KNOW the truth then they are either God or so self rightious to have theyre own head practicaly up theyre own backsides (LoL this is NOT aimed at anybody in the forums, its just people in general :D ), Plus i know racism can be tought because its also an instict to follow the leader or go with the croud. I'll leave you with a sentence we have all heard, "Go on, Just get to know him, you never know, you may even like him".

This concludes my white paper, Thank you :D , btw no flaming me or you will prove me right heh :D

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23 Dec 2005, 20:44
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"The truth is, Colonel; You cannot judge a race. Any man who judges by the group is a pee-wit. You take men one at a time."

-Sgt. Kilrain, to Colonel Chamberlain in 'The Killer Angels' as adapted in the movie 'Gettysburg', on racism.

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I have a tough time reading all of this thread from a bunch of Star Trek fans! Let's see a little shameless idealism here! 8O If you are all right, then I'm just as racist as the next person, and sexist and religiously intolerant. But I'll be damned if I let that dictate how I behave to others. Whatever happened to 'Live and let live'?!

The natural inclination to fear what we don't understand has indeed served us well during our evolution. The antidote? Knowledge. Education. Openness. Sure, it all sounds warm and fuzzy, but aren't we less afraid of most things we understand better. Okay, spiders is a bad example. let's use sharks. You'd think that everyone who enters the ocean can expect to be fish food, after what the media and entertainment have done to inflate the dangers. My advice: get into the water, thus staying away from coconut trees. More people are killed per year by falling coconuts than by sharks! The more we learn about them, the better we understand situations that are actually dangerous and discriminate from situations/conditions that aren't. Cannot the same be done in studying other civilizations?

If multiculturalism can't work, then what do you suggest? Do you have a better idea? (that doesn't involve walled and fortified compounds for anyone of a different culture....this isn't 2024, yet [or 1941 in the U.S. for that matter]).

People need to:
1) understand their culture
2) understand the beliefs of others
3) not freak out when they see other beliefs demonstrated. It is okay too see a non-Christmas holiday display, or to see a Nativity scene on a street corner. I promise, it really doesn't threaten you.
4) stop insisting that everyone do what you do.
5) know where you are going/living, and respect local customs and laws. Respect where you are travelling, not just where you come from.
-and finally-
6) If it doesn't threaten you or someone close to you, it probably isn't your problem, nor is it your right to interfere.

Of course this won't happen. It really shouldn't be that hard, but there are always people who take things too far. We, however, have to be better than that, and teach our children better than that. Maybe we can't really do better in our lifetimes, but at least give the next generation a chance to make it better by not saddling them with our racial baggage.

Two final thoughts: First, genetically, there can be more genetic variance between two white people who are neighbors in a small town than there is between one of the white people and a black person in Ethiopia. The external traits of "race" are so genetically superficial that I doubt I will ever by the 'genetically racist' argument.

Second, I quote good ol' Star Trek:

"Fear is the true enemy. The only enemy".

-William T. Riker to the Tkon portal guardian.
("The Last Outpost" - TNG)

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16 Jan 2006, 23:45
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