I found this on the BBC News Website:

5th Closest Star Discovered

If we are still only just detecting such massive objects that are relatively close to us, who knows what else could be out there?

vulcan?

Mirror Universe?

heheheheheh well i would laugh my head off if there was some pointy eared aliens liveing up there lol

I wounder how long it would take for radio messages to reach there, just incase anyone was there and could listen...

About the star, yeah good news. Any star near to us brings us one step close to having more stuff nearer us which is better than it being far away.

Personally i home klingons are there

It would take 7.5 years for a radio message to reach there and another 7.5 years for the reply to reach earth. That's not allowing time for an alien civilization to decipher our message.

If they have a prime directive then maybe they won't respond at all

Nice news.

I think that you have raised more questions than we have answers.
But Ill try to answer some of yours and add mine.

First. Radio.
What makes you to think that aliens (lets call them that) have radio reciver??? In a Star Trek V or is it IV when a Klingons are comeing to dinner at Kirks Enteprise. Uhura says:"They have human rights.", and the Klingon woman replys:"Even the menchioning of the human its rasist." or something like that.
Skeeter will know better I belive.
So thats the one.

Second. Life on it.
If there is life, how do you think that we can recognize it. What is life for us maybe it isnt for them.

Third. Prime directive.
We know that Federations Prime Directive is not to interfere. Maybe their is diferent. I wont even go there what would it be.

I wonder if we have the knowlage to bulid (humans) why dont we make a real USS Enterprise. We can make parts here and ship them of to space. And construct the ship there. Only problem is how to make artifical gravity.
I did some reaserch on gravity and found out that gravity is basicly made by the size of the body (cube, ball, planet...). So for a people that have a average 100KG a 400t ship would be a gravity puller. How strong I dont know.

If they have electricity then they will know about electro-magnetism and therefor they would know about radio. The problem is how they encode information into radio waves. They wouldn't use the same CODEC as us such it would be difficult for us/them to decypher what a message means, and then there's language.

Assuming their evironment is similar to ours then life will evolve there to be similar to us.
A 400 ton ship would produce a very small amount of gravity (micro-gravity) we need to develop a gravity generator. Well we don't need gravity to travel in space.

Actually, we do need Gravity.

Gravity keeps our muscles strong and stops our bones from breaking down. By constantly having to push against Gravity, our bones and muscles develop and maintain their strength.

Astronauts have to constantly excercise whilst they are in space to ensure that their bones and muscles don't waste away. Even then, when they come back to Earth, they are unable to walk properly, because their legs have to get used to Gravity again. They wouldn't have this problem if we had Gravity generators, Of course.

I'm not a mathematician, physicist, or whatever, so I don't really know the laws that govern Gravity, but to my knowledge, Gravity is all about mass.

Everything in the Universe - including us - have a Gravitational pull on objects close by, it's just that you need to be the size of an Asteroid, Moon, Planet or Star for the effects to be noticable. The bigger the object is though, the greater its force of Gravity will be.

Life on Earth evolved to how it is now because of the climate, because of the pull of Gravity, because of mass extinctions, and because of a great many more things.

If the Asteroid hadn't hit the Earth 65 million years ago, the Dinosaurs would likely have still have been around - and mammals wouldn't now rule the Earth.

It would be the same on other Planets - the smallest random event could trigger a complete change in the evolution of life - or its failure.

I personally think that the chances of finding life that is similar to us is extremely remote, although I certainly don't doubt its existance - in one form or another.

Personally i don't doubt that the human race will dsicover new life. However, i feel whatever it may be it will be othing like anyone has even imagined and i highly doubt we will ever see it in our lifetimes

hmmmmm well ya i know what you guys mean

But i doubt big style that there is any life forms out there that rival use but then again they could be we dotn know

this calls for a trip to area 51 hahahahahahahahahahahah

basically gravity is the downward force that pulls us into the centre of the earth. force can be split into 2 things using the equation

<1> F=ma (f is force, m is mass, a is acceleration)


<2> while m=Vd (d is density and v is volume)


Now using the first equation, we can do 2 difference things to increase the force, increase the mass or increase the acceleration.

Lets say we increase the mass, well using the <2> we can see that you need to increase the volume of the object or increase in density. Well the earth is quite dense and it is still massive of a massive volume, so increasing the density is another possiblity. It could be possible to create a singularity and place it far enough away from living areas to create a large mass (and therefore a large gravity).

Now there is increasing the acceleration. acceleration (as defined by wikipedia is: the rate of change of velocity of an object with respect to time) this can be done by increasing the speed of the craft and living on the back walls but this would require a constant rate of acceleration. when the craft slows down the couldt live on the walls anymore. There is a different type of acceleration, centrifugal acceleration.

gtg ill edit this later wen ivmore time, stay tuned!

Quantum it is obivous that you dont know anything about science. So please hold youre self from futher comments.
I will try to answer or opose youre answers on the subject. As MOE said. WE NEED GRAVITY! And he had explained it pretty nice. Thanks MOE! So you can now read it and understand. (i hope)

You have quoted me on life. Are you blind? I have said that what life for them maybe isnt life for us. That means that dont live unde similar conditions as we do. Maybe they dont need air, water...

I have some ideas on how to build a GravGen. Incresing the density of the particles and speading them up to the, lets say, neear of the speed of lignt we can get somewere. Only problem as I see it. It is needed to be all over the ship (in the flor) and that would be dificult to spread.

Only there is one more problem. The people got only 3000 KM in the ground. And that is a just a scratch.
Here are some facts about Earth.
Equatorial 12,756.270 km
Volume 1.0832×1012 km³
Mass 5.9736×1024 kg
Density 5,515 kg/m³
So you can get the figure how much we know about our planet.
We havent passed an 1% in its core. Still we dont know what is under us.

Well you asked what people think. You don't have to be a qualified scientist to have a view on something. I think you need to take a step back and calm it down there mate. We're just people having a chat on the internet. You can point out things like MOE has done but who are you to tell anyone not to comment?
Go right ahead then build it.

He's got a point, sirNemanjapro, if you've got some ideas, then try them out. To be honest, I doubt you'll be able to do so coz of one tiny little problem:



If you can get them to go at the speed of light (Or even just close to it) you'll be remembered throughout time just like Zefram Cochrane...

...

I created this thread coz I thought people would be interested, just like they were when I created my Romulous and Remus thread. I didn't think it would spark a great debate like this.

Try to keep a cool head guys, not all of us are theoretical mathematicians and Warp physicists. If you have a point, try to explain it in "baby terms" rather than with arguments or technobabble.

Sorry if i've missed the point here, but what is a GravGen (GravityGenerator?), what does it do and what do you do with one?

That's complete crap. If you'd have enjoyed a serious study on physics like I do, you'd know there are more barricades between our current technological status and a interstellar starships but just artificial gravity issues. I don't know wether you have heard of Einstein and his theory relativity, but certainly the speed of light is something that continues to stop us for over a hundred years now and there is nothing promising to release that issue in a serious amount of time. No man, no warp drive in sight.

And no, gravity has *nothing* to do with size. There are objects in space not a thousand times as big as your actual volume, but they have the mass of hundred times our sun!

And, afterall, how can we be so arrogant to plan to build starships as far as on mother earth there is poverty, hunger and war??? No man, you don't know what you talk, so for the sake of integrity of the physics science, shut up that bit.

Sorry this turned out to be a rant, but it's... just unbelieveable what you are talking since it's pretty obvious you don't understand anything about it.

Chris: There is no gravity generator. We don't even kow if the particles of the standard theory[1] that are supposed to "transport" gravity, so-called gravitons, even exist.

[1] Standard-theory is the subsumption of everything subnuclear we know about that acts in common principles with quantum dynmics. You know, the quantum chromo particles representing the weak nuclear force, for example...

Been informed of flaming so here i am to stop it.


So er.. Stop it please or face a warning, if flaming is repeated then a temp ban will ensure.

No problem. I accept a ban in the name of serious science.

Also on top of warnings and bans, topic will be locked and future topics will be deleted if this is what we get because of them.

So keep it friendly, debates are ok but dont have any superiority complex's here.

Thanks.

somehow i don't believe life exists as in conscience similair to human beings on other planets.

A lot of information from space that we have are mearly theories. It is possibe that a lot of those 'ideas' are just crap. Look at dna and how wrong people were in 1991 with the Human Genome project. That it would be easy to cure all deceases. But in fact human dna seemed to be way more complex after the dnamap was finished.

I don't think mankind will ever succeed into travelling to other stars as in StarTrek. We have the problem of radiation (major), supplies (food,materials,etc..l), air (i think major, unless some discovery is there to create more oxygen), Duration (major, we can't travel as fast as light, let alone 50x as fast as light), Anomalies (we don't know what's out there). Now you need to put in young people because they will be very old or dead when they arrive. Then you need a machine that has the possibililty to actualy work like a female body, to be able to get young people on the planet. Oh and here is the good fun.. when you arrive the planet is unhabitable for us, because humans are extremely weak because it would probally have something which would make it impossible for us to life in.

Just some wild thoughts. Sure all seems simple in StarTrek, but it isn't. It would require an MASSIVE ship with an enormous supply of compressed oxygen and plantlife (that actually is able to survive the trip). All people need to wear a special suit or protection thingy, and be put in some kind of coma, where they are being fet by the computer. Now if something happens in the middle of space you probally won't be able to retell the tale. Gravity distortions, overheating, too cold, rocks. It's a HELL out there. Space is an hazerdeous place, not created for mankind to fly in.


Poverty, hunger and all, is because of people in power. People abuse believes and ideas to get what they need. Most people don't care what happens to someone on the otherside of the globe, they only care what happens to there surroundings. If we all want that povery, hunger and even deceases to be gone then we must unite and see eachother as family not enemies. But because we have different kind of moral codes and believes this will never be possible in this time.


The idea of an prime-directive is uterly nonsence. If mankind would really be advanced (socialy) they would help people and not create a list so that they have an excuse for not helping others. So the idea of not-reacting to a radio message sounds weird to me. Besides it's not like you get a message from another world every day.

Anyway one big step into more energy would perhaps be nucleir fusion.

Oh and it's really nice that this star has been discovered it only strengthen the idea that mankind knows nothing about the universe, claims as to how old the universe is and such are useless if you dont even know what's in your backyard. In 100 years if this all still exists as we know it, people will be laughing about the ideas that mankind has in this time.

Just as they laughed about the brothers Wright trying to fly...

Yet, you are right with what you say, although there indeed are some philosophic drawbacks in your arguments:

First of all an alien civilization will concede the fact we are sociologically and technologically not able to become a spacefaring civilization (which would be the obvious consequence of the knowledge not to be alone in universe) - so they decide to not contact us and hide from us. That's just an issue of how we see ourselves and how a (not necesarrily) neutral observer would judge wether contact should be established or not - because the very first contact is something that cannot be repaired once it has been made too soon.

A prime directive would be a good thing IMHO. Who's to say what type of culture is better? An Alien civilization left alone could create a civilization that is equally advanced as us but with a totaly different culture.

This kind of thing has happened throughout history. cultures thinking their own way of doing things is better and trying to impose it on the rest of the world.

Think of the first 2 episodes of Voyager where the ocompa never learned to create things for themselves and became dependent on the caretaker.

If we discover a primitive alien civilization and we can get there I have no doubt man will try to conquer them in some way.

as i was wanting to say, mankind is udeveloped in the social aspects. I mean, basic moral codes that people in general don't have. BUT if we would be advanced in the social aspects, then there would be no problem to contact anothe race.

As in your example, the Caretaker was not really intelligent. He wanted to nurse them and was blinded by the fact that the Ocampa were able to survive on their own. The only thing that the Caretaker had to do, was to put the Ocampa on another planet. Which with his amazing powers would not be really hard to do. Because letting the Ocampa live on a barren like planet is not really nice.

first, humanities biggest problem is the assumption that everything is how WE see it, and 'know' it to be.

second, any geological question i can answer, becuase i am in my last year of geology at university.

thirdly, remember, the universe is held together by rules. if we understand the rules, we can find ways to manipulate them. just because a smart man floggs out a theory which is mathimatically sound, doesnt mean its the only solution to the problem. breaking the speed of light is only a matter of time. but even then we might not actually travel faster than the speed of light, but bypass it, and it would only appear to go faster. also remember this, if something has happened before, it is possible, and will therefore happen again in an infinate universe. there is, will be, or was life out there.

thats my rant

sean

actually, it's density that causes gravity, not size or mass.

as for the FTL... heh... we're a few generations away from that unfortunately (although some guy at NASA is sooooo confident we'll produce an FTL capable ship within the next 25 years that he put down a $10,000 bet with a bookie at odds of 1000:1 - hopefully that's inside knowledge playing a part ). and as i understand it, we'll never actually get an object to physically travel at the speed of light. most physicists are looking at artificial wormholes and warp fields and stuff like that.

What's FTL stand for?
Sounds exciting though
Got any links about it Scatter?

The denser an object is then the more mass can be in one location, trust me it's mass.


Faster then light.

Hello to everyone, and wellcome back to my crash course science 2!

Let start with some comennts and questions from the last time I was here. Shall we?

Ok. First up is:
Quantum.

I must say Im sorry. I was a bit harsh on you. Sometimes I assume that people know what Im talking about (something on the subject at hand). But now I see that I made mistake. Youre comment or thought was incorect. Read on and you will se how.

Im bussy. Some other time.

Second is my friend MOE.


Well actually one german scientist has managed to make a matter go faster than the speed of light! Apperently no one told him that he cant do that. It will make some Enstines theoryes a peace of CrAp, and it will redefine mathematics as we know it.

Third on the show is ftranschel. A man that thinks that Enstine is God. Well Tesla is a something near it, but even he isnt a God. (Oh, and Tesla is a Serb. I say this because the Croats say its theirs. Funny people those Croats.)




Well first off. No its not crap, nore its complete. I have studied many books on the subject and many sites! Here are some links. I hope this will make you feel better. I know it dose me. Because youre WRONG!
LINKS:
http://science.howstuffworks.com/question232.htm
http://einstein.stanford.edu/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity
http://www.iop.org/EJ/journal/CQG
http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/gr/public/qg_home.html
FOCUS ON THIS ONE
http://www.fourmilab.ch/gravitation/
http://www.fourmilab.ch/gravitation/foobar/
http://www.physorg.com/news10924.html

Soo, after a good reading, and I say GOOD, you can comment some more.
Ok. Next.


Answer on this is in the links.


Im from Serbia I know what that means!


I know you dont know that Im a student of a professor whose doughter is in Hawai in reaserch of GRAVITONS. THEY EXIST! And belive me I have a lot of other professors that are well known in their field. So. Update youre self on the subject.

Idont want to flame or ... Lets put all our knowlage together, and who knows maybe we end up as founders of DayStorm Institute.

Arrogance is the only thing that doesn't fit to anybody.



Actually I think he's been more "godlike" we'll ever be. And yes, I praise him because of his way of physics and his view of the world. You don't need to priase him, but you have to accept that everything he described with his theory was RIGHT. No matter, wether there are some thing that (certainly will) go beyond.



Your intend doesn't miraculously put all the things right you said, because they simply were wrong and this is nothing we can discuss about, because your links don't contain serious theoretical physics that would render Einstein's model of gravity obsolete. The most of them is _speculative_ and/or half-baked so this is no basis of a seriuous discussion. I won't forbid *you* to believe the things they tell you - but science means to show proof for theories.


I don't understand what you mean. If my statement is wrong, then show me the mistakes WORD BY WORD.



Again: I won't discuss with you about politics. You evade from the discussion, which means your arguments are too weak.



You know someone who knows someone? Let me tell you I know the very professor preparing to verify gravitic wave's existance - but does it change *anything* to the subject? No, because the _facts_ are apart from every person, and so is your's. I don't said gravitons would not exist but I said it is _uncertain_, because there actually is no proof - you can't deny that by telling me you know someone...



There is a long way to become a scientist - and even a longer one to understand physics so deeply you could consider to patronize me.