I haven't much explored and I'm not sure if this has already been discussed but here goes:

When I finally made a no-crash, no slowing, satisfying and clean install and modding of the game I used patchxp + tactical fix + multipack + BotfEdit1.4. I realised that high ship stats bring down proccesing and maybe even crash the game. With lower stats the game no longer slows down AT ALL.

I wanted to increase general ship reasistance so they would stop dying instantly in later stages and make that Star Trek resistance we see in the movies. Maybe not that far. I install one of those mods that claim such a thing and it changes overall balance of ship performance while increasing general resistance stats. And the attack cruiser gets almost the same firepower as dreadnought(outrageous). I played and won with cardassians(normal difficulty, no saves).

I started custom-making by multiplying the resistance stats and making other such modifications with BOTFEDIT and the game crashes. Eventually I start over dividing firepower 1/2 in numbers and 1/2 in damage, leaving it mostly to that (aside that, I only increased cardassian shields/recharge by 1.1 to compensate them for the increased opportunity to recharge and reduced romulan torpedo damage by only a multiplication of 0.75 because they rely on the initial attack). Now the game no longer slows down(it's better than the original!) and I like it better with reasonable ship durability rate.

It fells good that the cardassians are a little stronger(a little less failures). I suppose intel offense is a power too, though(I am experiencing with it right now-romulans-, attacking the whole galaxy, and it works. That gives me a strange edge. Once they feel threatened AI empires turtle their intelligence and fall easily. I sent ALL my intel on offense and they work well while in defense I was loosing(now AI are also no longer attacking). I think this needs fixing, defending should prove stronger, and AI should realise you are defenseless. It's almost as if all my intel was on each race individually and also prevented them from attacking.

When developing BOTF2, please make it a pain to kill ships(at least the federation ones). I hope you are also introducing controlled sieges(I can't stand!!!(emotional outburst, nothing serious) those ungraspable batteries and ground combat).

The ships stats are being carefully balanced by Dafedz - the ships won't be uber powerful or uber weak without reason. (Eg. the Prometheus will be the most powerful ship in the game - but is also rediculously expensive)

Orbital Batteries WILL be targettable - they will appear in tactical combat!

I'm not sure about ground combat though - this is something that I haven't personally spoekn to the others about in a long while. If we decide on anything, i'll mention it here in the forums.

That's all I wanted to hear. I was going to start a thread with allowing orbital combat/invasions to be carried out in tacitcal combat. IE: escort the transport ships into the planet (this could even allow the possibility of capital ships "shielding" the tranports from incoming attacks - much like the Enterprise E and the Defiant in First Contact).

After that, I don't have a problem with the game automatically determining invasion success or failure when determining ground combat.

Just don't forget to use numbers as small as possible. I don't know a thing a bout your programming, it may be that numbers don't make a difference for yours, but small numbers might be better and I think that wasting multiplications from the essential IS obviously a waste.

Ok then, i've double checked this, and this is how ground combat is gonna work:

Damage to a system will be calculated (Obviously) based on the rating of your attack forces - the more ships you use, or the greater its firepower, the more damage that will be done to the system.

However, Transports (Notice they aren't Troop transports anymore, their purpose has been modified in a number of ways, so they are now simply Transports) will change this.

The more advanced your Transports are, the greater the damage that is done to the population, but the lower the damage that is done to buildings. Transports essentially guide your Fleets into attacking only the key population structures and defenses. Not only does this mean you can capture a system much more quickly, it also means that more of the buildings will survive when you capture it - so you have to worry less about building it back up.

Damage to the population can also be reduced in two ways during an attack.

Healthcare facilities will provide a health bonus to systems. Different races have different buildings providing different bonuses.

FEDERATION
Apothecary: 5% Population Health
Health Clinic: 15% Population Health
Medical Centre: 20% Population Health

CARDASSIANS
Medic Station: 5% Population Health
Triage Clinic: 15% Population Health

KLINGONS
Apothecary: 5% Population Health

ROMULANS
Imperial Clinic: 10% Population Health
Imperial Hospital: 15% Population Health

DOMINION
Purging Centre: 15% Population Health


These bonuses mean that that percentage of the maximum system population is taken from the casualties and "healed".

For example, say you are the Federation, you have a system of size 200, and the system comes under attack, killing 80 million people. If the system had an Apothecary, it would get a 5% health bonus. The 5% bonus means that instead of 80 million people dying, 70 million die instead. (5% of 200 is 10. 80 - 10 = 70)

If a Health Clinic was present, then there would be a 15% bonus, meaning 50 million people would die instead of 80 million, (15% of 200 is 30. 80 - 30 = 50) and if a Medical Complex is present, there is a 20% bonus, so "only" 40 million people would die. (20% of 200 is 40. 80 - 40 = 40)

The health buildings are upgradeable - you build an Apothecary, and upgrade it into a Medical Complex, Triage Clinic, or Imperial hospital. If you're playing as the Klingons, you can't upgrade it, but why would a Klingon want treatment?

The Dominion only get one building as well. However, the relatively high bonus of their building is offset by a high tech requirement. The Federation have the best Healthcare facilities, but they have higher upgrade costs because they will have to upgrade it twice.

Of course, the healthcare building may get destroyed during the attack...


The second way that you can minimise population losses, is to provide ships in the system. All ships have medical facilities of one kind or another - and these can be used to help boost the health rating of a system. This rating is applied on top of the rating provided by Medical facilities.

Ships will have a very low health rating, however, and it isn't accumulative - providing two ships in a system does not double the amount of Healthcare provided by ships. One ship provides the maximum bonus from ship-based treatment. This ship is always the most powerful ship present. (Eg. if an Ambassador and a Galaxy are present in the system, the Galaxy provides the Healthcare bonus, because it has better facilities)

Every class of ship has it's own Healthcare bonus, but the Federation has the best bonus for their ships.

Hosptial ships are a new introduction in the game. Their sole purpose is to provide a Healthcare bonus to systems - they are otherwise useless. Hospital ships are non-combats - so enemy forces won't be able to engage them unless a system-friendly fleet is present, as with BOTF.

Only the Federation, Romulans, and Cardassians can build Hospital ships - the Klingons and Dominion simply wouldn't bother building such ships. The Federation and Romulans can actually build two hospital ships. Unlike Combat ships, Hospital ships are autmoatically upgraded in the field when you reach the right tech - you don't have to manually upgrade them like you do with Combat ships. This also applies to all the other non-combat ships - Transports and Colony ships.

Hospital ships provide roughly a 20% healthcare bonus, depending on class. The Cardassian Kivirok class Triage Cruiser is the "worst" Hospital ship with a 16% bonus, and the Federation Olympic class Hospital ship is the "best" with a 24% bonus.

The healthcare bonuses have another important purpose. They minimise the damage caused by random events, for example, a Volcano, Earthquake, or Asteroid strike. Whilst people will still obviously die, Healthcare provision minimises the losses caused by the natural disasters.

I know everything is set for BOTF2, but let us explore a 'little' problem:

In BOTF1 we had 5 races which were, from acceptable, different, points of view, good aligned. After reading about the dominion, it seems to be pure evil, much like the Borg, so I don't see how they would fit into the game the way the original ones did. The ferengi might have never had a place among the major powers, but since they were there, common, did you have to make them go?

There isn't a real reason why there are five powers. That's the way it was in BOTF, and that's the number that we decided to have in BOTF2.

Very few people played as the Ferengi, and let's face it, they were never a real threat to the other Empires. The Dominion on the other hand are a threat.

You have to remember, BOTF is a 4X game. (eXplore, eXpand, eXploit, eXterminate) Fighting is one of the main componenets to it. You'll never get far in the game if you run from all battles and forgo building a decent fleet.

In BOTF2, credits won't be so effective at bribing either. Some races will actually be offended by your bribery attempts!

Because of this, it really didn't seem right to have the Ferengi in as an Empire. The Dominion is much more like an Empire though. They have a vast Fleet of starships, they have many races under their control, and they even have an entire race of warriors.

Because of these reasons, the Dominion was the logical choice for inclusion as the Ferengi's replacement.

Anyways, don't worry about it. You could always mod it later on.

I am eager to see you make the Dominion a real civilization, not just a zombie one. And how are you going to balance the game in a 'realistic' Star Trek way? The Dominion were supposed to be a match for all the others united!

Evil makes for for powerful entities, not civilizations. Civilizations are essentially good.

The Dominion will be powerful because they will have a massive shipbuilding bonus - they will build ships at twice the rate of the other Empires.

However, (On a canon/semi-canon map) the Dominion will be in a region of space that is relatively devoid of other races. They won't meet many races - so they won't have many battles. They will find it easier to expand - but this may make their Empire unwieldly to manage.

The Dominion will be terrible at training crews, so they will end up with a vast, inexperienced fleet.

The other Empires, however, will be in close proximity to each other, and they will be in an area of space that is relatively rich in life. They will meet other races early on in the game, and they will be constantly at war with each other. Their ships will gain experience fast, but they will lose a lot of ships in the process.

By the time the Empires meet each other, the Dominion will have a vast, inexperience fleet, whilst the other Empires will have small, battle-ready fleets.

Who will win? That's the whole point of the game...

Matress, why is this formula based on the maximum population of a system. If this system is used, the current population should count not the maximum population. If you've been bombarding a planet for three turns and reduced your 200 million planet to only 100 million, an apothecary should only cure 5 million.
That said, even if you do it like that I think the system is flawed. So what if I have a relatively small invasion force and you have a system with a Federation Medical center (+20%). If you calculate it from total population there would be some situations where bombardment don't kill anyone. suppose you have your 200 million planet with a Medical center capable of curing 40 million people in your example. So any ammount of damage I do below 40 million will result in no people dying at all! To counter this, I think you should take the percentage from the casualties. (perhaps up the numbers a bit as 5% out of 50 million losses is like 3 million, but I think you got my point.




What do you mean with this? You can't engage unescorted hospital ships? And what's this with that it is the same as in BotF? In BotF, unescorted colony ships and troop transports would be toast if they encounter a Romulan Scout. Are you saying that in this game non-combattants are unengagable so they can safely fly around unescorted? The Klingons and Feds might uphold ethical standards like that, but I doubt any of the other races would agree.

I'm double checking a point with Dafedz. I'l let you know when he answers my PM.

moe is wrong all ships can be attacked.

In BoTF1, I noticed it was hit or miss when ships were set to avoid. I think there's a chance to engage avoiding vessels, and the chances to engage them increase with the more ships you have (or capability of the ships you have - ie: experience).

Think of it like an intercept chance... but it's always on for the sector the ships are in and gets better with the more ships/experience you have in the sector.

Dafedz still hasn't replied to my other point yet, but I will post when he responds. I guess I was "off on a frolic of my own" as my lecturers say, about the attackable Hospital ships, though.

I should have mentioned that your ships can still be set to evade enemy fleets, but this may still not be enough against large fleets. ALL ships will be able to evade, just like in BOTF.

You described it quite well, Azhdeen. I believe that's how it worked in BOTF, and that's probably how it will be implemented in BOTF2.

I'm up to speed on this now and have seen MoE's pm. First point is invasion strengths.



That's from the 'Population Health' page in the database. This means that the success rate in applying health bonuses to an invasion/attack is based on the potential invading force, not the current population, or maximum population. If the invasion force had the ability to potentially cause a loss of 400 million (before pop. health is applied), then the figure would be adjusted to those casualties with a medical centre in place.

I see what's Centurion is saying and fortunately it isn't possible. All Population Health does is apply a percentage health bonus to cure a percentage of people that would have died if there was no medical centre in place. As Centurion says, you could have a small invasion force and only be capable of unleashing an attack that would kill 4 million people. With a Medical centre, 3 million will die instead. This is basically how it works. It may sound unrealistic, but remember, the higher the pop the higher the medical infrastructure, and the higher (in ratio) can be saved.


Also, as MoE states in his pm:



This is a good idea. It stands to reason that after one attack, or two attacks (two turns into the attack), Medical facilites will be damaged, and the amount of affective treatment they can provide will decrease. But the Hospital ships (if present) can still render aid - if they aren't killed off...

And regarding Hospital ships. They certainly can be attacked and destroyed. However, there are certain morale penalties in place for doing so. If the Feds for instance destroy an alien Hospital ship there will be quite a backlash. See Morale Table in the database for more...

What is all that talk about killing civilians? In BOTF you used to conquer systems with killing as few as possible. Bombing was a problem, unless you wanted to damage the system, not conquer it.

There should also be the possibility of effective extermination if you want to colonize the system yourself (maybe even keep the structures). And perhaps population should become a resource that you can manage and move between systems.

About the ability to intercept ships, I think you should introduce the ability to hunt for ships in enemy space.

Killing off population really does depend on the race you play as. The Federation would completely abhor it, the Klingons would only do it if they fought back/weren't "innocent civilians", the Romulans would do it if they were a percieved threat to the Empire and had no other use, the Cardassians would prefer to enslave the population, and the Dominion would wipe them out if they didn't begin to worship the Founders.

Depending on how the attack goes, and the race you play as, your race will recieve a morale penalty/bonus for attacking the system. Dafedz has carefully balanced these out, and there are far more bonuses and penalties to morale than there were in BOTF.

The possibility of keeping structures is gonna be in, but it will depend on the technology of your Transports. You won't be able to gain control of any race-specific special structures either. (Eg. the Klingons can't gain control of the Tal Shiar Headquarters if they wipe out Romulous and then colonise the system)

The more advanced your Transports are, the less collateral damage there will be to buildings, and the more population that will be killed/enslaved, depending on the purpose of the invasion.

Another thing that I thought I should mention is that the most advanced Transports WILL now be armed, making them far more effective in combat situations. Type 1 and 2 Transports will not be armed (Unless they're Klingon of course) but type 3 Transports will have small but effective armaments.

Errr... playing as the Feds... I require aboiut 3-4 turns of bombardment on a fully developed system before I can even think about a successful invasion. And this is me... running around with 9 Soverigns. The Klingons might be able to get away with less bombardment since they have better invasion combat.

But honestly, I have to beat the hell out of a system before I can send transports down. And even sometimes the invasion will still get repelled - even with a dozen+ transports.

Bombardment = destroying defensive structures for me. Unfortunately, there's no way to *target* defensive structures (ie: shields, bunkers, etc) during bombardment... so I end up destroying 60% of the existing buildings trying to get to them.

I would like to think that the presence of a science vessel would allow seiging starships to be able to focus attacks on specific structure types. Of course, there can still be the chance for colletral damage....

And this would also allow some buildings to have special concelment bonuses....

there will be more options in the game this time round, Azhdeen. We thought of stuff like that.

You will be able to specifically target population structures, military installations, resourcees, etc. when you can attack a system.

A similar system (But with obviously different options) will also be employed with raiding as well.

Cool idea about using science ships though. We could set it so they either give you more options, or they increase the accuracy - and therefore the success - of such attacks. I'll mention it to the devs.

Explorers are a new type of ship in this game - replacing Command cruisers. They do the same as Commands, and behave the same, but they also have the ability of a science vessel, as Explorers are now long range mulit-role vessels, as they were in Trek. The presence of an Explorer in any scenario guarentees increased stability, control and accuracy. Also experience ratings come into play. It will probably be implemented that Explorers participating in a bombardment/invasion will increase the effectiveness of the operation,