Great work!
Observations.

Information for Surveyor_2 (Oberth) is in the description field of Surveyor_1 (Icarus).

Clicking on a task force already selected should deselect it.

Why are the asteroids in the Sol system beyond Pluto? Shouldn't they be between Mars and Jupiter? Or is the Kuiper Belt included in the term "asteroids"?

In the statistics on ships within both the build que and the encyclopedea, there is no mention of the ship's speed.

Is there a way of looking at future tech within Supremecy so I can plan bias research levels?

When a ship is out of range of supplies, it would be nice to have a fuel indicator so you know your extended range. This indicator should increase if the ship is told to collect deuterium... by how much per turn is debatable.

Thank you *very* much for the music volume control.

I'm about to delve into a large-galaxy game. I'm looking forward to it! Thank you for the great work.

Yes, I noticed this as well, it's an easy fix.

Listboxes don't generally work this way, so I'll wait and see if anyone else comments on it.

I didn't like the way they looked between Mars and Jupiter, so I just put them in the back of the Sol system.

That must be an oversight. Thanks for your keen observation .

All techs should be visible in the research matrix on the Science Screen. You can click on one to see what items it unlocks.

I haven't decided how to display this yet, but I agree that something should be shown.

No problem .

Glad you're enjoying it .

Just have to say Im super impressed with what's been done so far
The SIZE of the map is awesome, just what I had in mind for a BOTF 2.
Iv been playing BOTF since 1999, and was aware sequals were being made, but never realised they had come on so far. Looks fantastic!

I will be diving into a game just now so will give as much input as possible, only thing I notice so far was the galaxy speed thing on the ships mentioned above.

Thanks for all your time and effort


Cheers
CrazyLegs

Welcome, CrazyLegs. Good to see new members.



Using Supremecy Editor (thank you *very* much) I have already done so on mine.

Other Type-Os I've found

1) Cruiser V "Build Cost=105", "Upkeep Cost=23820"
These numbers should be reversed.

2) Explorer III "Fuel Capacity=0"
Perhaps '30' was the intended number?

3) Escort (Defiant) "Energy Weapon Delivery=Beam"
Shouldn't this be "pulse"?



Understood. I've changed it on my own game, but that's just 'cause I'm an astro-nerd.



Glad to hear it. Looking forward to it. Counting out the distances has become tedious.



This is true and I've used this method. But to find out what a single object requires searching each tech type at severa different levels. For example, Colony Ship II needs tech levels 4,3,4,3,4,3. To be certain of the tech levels, one must search through a minimum of 12 tech lists: bio, comp, const, energy, prop and weaps of both levels 3 and 4. In the case of Advanced Turbines (0,3,3,3,0,0) a large search area of is required to find the tech levels: levels 0-3 through three research requirements. I suggest addopting a system similar to BotF1 or at least the system you've used earlier.

I don't know if this has already been stated somewhere but it doesn't seem to matter what tech levels I input into Supremacy Editor, new facilities and even new buildings are only available after all the subjects have been researched to the same level. Mining Corps (0,0,2,2,0,0) is not availiable until *all* research is at level 2. So, using Colony Ship II as an example again, only until everything is a tech level 4 will this ship be available. And if I change one tech level (*any* tech level) to 5, all tech levels must be at 5 before I'm allowed to build it.

Going to options and turning the music volume to 0 only works for one window type. I have to go to options from Main to turn off the music and then do it again from System.... Mind you, it's better than nothing. :D

@Zeleni: You can see the tech requirements for a ship/building by looking up its entry in the encyclopedia, but since it only shows items that you've already researched, I suppose it isn't very useful in that respect. I'll add a checkbox that toggles the display of future objects in the encyclopedia as well. I'll also look into the volume level issue.

Mike the lastest patch is failing to load... here is the error log

Cannot create instance of 'SplashScreen' defined in assembly 'SupremacyClient, Version=0.1.2663.33624, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null'. Exception has been thrown by the target of an invocation. Error in markup file 'SupremacyClient;component/SplashScreen.xaml' Line 1 Position 9.

at System.Windows.Markup.XamlParseException.ThrowException(String message, Exception innerException, Int32 lineNumber, Int32 linePosition, Uri baseUri, XamlObjectIds currentXamlObjectIds, XamlObjectIds contextXamlObjectIds, Type objectType)
at System.Windows.Markup.XamlParseException.ThrowException(ParserContext parserContext, Int32 lineNumber, Int32 linePosition, String message, Exception innerException)
at System.Windows.Markup.BamlRecordReader.ThrowException(String message, Exception innerException)
at System.Windows.Markup.BamlRecordReader.CreateInstanceFromType(Type type, Int16 typeId, Boolean throwOnFail)
at System.Windows.Markup.BamlRecordReader.GetElementAndFlags(BamlElementStartRecord bamlElementStartRecord, Object& element, ReaderFlags& flags, Type& delayCreatedType, Int16& delayCreatedTypeId)
at System.Windows.Markup.BamlRecordReader.BaseReadElementStartRecord(BamlElementStartRecord bamlElementRecord)
at System.Windows.Markup.BamlRecordReader.ReadElementStartRecord(BamlElementStartRecord bamlElementRecord)
at System.Windows.Markup.BamlRecordReader.ReadRecord(BamlRecord bamlRecord)
at System.Windows.Markup.BamlRecordReader.Read(Boolean singleRecord)
at System.Windows.Markup.TreeBuilderBamlTranslator.ParseFragment()
at System.Windows.Markup.TreeBuilder.Parse()
at System.Windows.Markup.XamlReader.LoadBaml(Stream stream, ParserContext parserContext, Object parent, Boolean closeStream)
at System.Windows.Application.LoadBamlStreamWithSyncInfo(Stream stream, ParserContext pc)
at MS.Internal.AppModel.AppModelKnownContentFactory.BamlConverter(Stream stream, Uri baseUri, Boolean canUseTopLevelBrowser, Boolean sandboxExternalContent, Boolean allowAsync, Boolean isJournalNavigation, XamlReader& asyncObjectConverter)
at MS.Internal.AppModel.MimeObjectFactory.GetObjectAndCloseStream(Stream s, ContentType contentType, Uri baseUri, Boolean canUseTopLevelBrowser, Boolean sandboxExternalContent, Boolean allowAsync, Boolean isJournalNavigation, XamlReader& asyncObjectConverter)
at System.Windows.Navigation.NavigationService.GetObjectFromResponse(WebRequest request, WebResponse response, Uri destinationUri, Object navState)
at System.Windows.Navigation.NavigationService.DoNavigate(Uri source, NavigationMode f, Object navState)
at System.Windows.Navigation.NavigateQueueItem.Dispatch(Object obj)
at System.Windows.Threading.ExceptionWrapper.InternalRealCall(Delegate callback, Object args, Boolean isSingleParameter)
at System.Windows.Threading.ExceptionWrapper.TryCatchWhen(Object source, Delegate callback, Object args, Boolean isSingleParameter, Delegate catchHandler)

----------------------------------------

Exception has been thrown by the target of an invocation.

at System.RuntimeTypeHandle.CreateInstance(RuntimeType type, Boolean publicOnly, Boolean noCheck, Boolean& canBeCached, RuntimeMethodHandle& ctor, Boolean& bNeedSecurityCheck)
at System.RuntimeType.CreateInstanceSlow(Boolean publicOnly, Boolean fillCache)
at System.RuntimeType.CreateInstanceImpl(Boolean publicOnly, Boolean skipVisibilityChecks, Boolean fillCache)
at System.Activator.CreateInstance(Type type, Boolean nonPublic)
at System.Windows.Markup.BamlRecordReader.CreateInstanceFromType(Type type, Int16 typeId, Boolean throwOnFail)

----------------------------------------

'Supremacy.Client.StringResource' value cannot be assigned to property 'Title' of object 'Supremacy.Client.SplashScreen'. The type initializer for 'Supremacy.Resources.ResourceManager' threw an exception. Error at object 'Supremacy.Client.StringResource' in markup file 'SupremacyClient;component/splashscreen.xaml' Line 6 Position 9.

at System.Windows.Markup.XamlParseException.ThrowException(String message, Exception innerException, Int32 lineNumber, Int32 linePosition, Uri baseUri, XamlObjectIds currentXamlObjectIds, XamlObjectIds contextXamlObjectIds, Type objectType)
at System.Windows.Markup.XamlParseException.ThrowException(ParserContext parserContext, Int32 lineNumber, Int32 linePosition, String message, Exception innerException)
at System.Windows.Markup.BamlRecordReader.ThrowException(String message, Exception innerException)
at System.Windows.Markup.BamlRecordReader.SetDependencyComplexProperty(Object currentTarget, BamlAttributeInfoRecord attribInfo, Object o)
at System.Windows.Markup.BamlRecordReader.SetPropertyValueToParent(Boolean fromStartTag, Boolean& isMarkupExtension)
at System.Windows.Markup.BamlRecordReader.SetPropertyValueToParent(Boolean fromStartTag)
at System.Windows.Markup.BamlRecordReader.ReadElementEndRecord(Boolean fromNestedBamlRecordReader)
at System.Windows.Markup.BamlRecordReader.ReadRecord(BamlRecord bamlRecord)
at System.Windows.Markup.BamlRecordReader.Read(Boolean singleRecord)
at System.Windows.Markup.TreeBuilderBamlTranslator.ParseFragment()
at System.Windows.Markup.TreeBuilder.Parse()
at System.Windows.Markup.XamlReader.LoadBaml(Stream stream, ParserContext parserContext, Object parent, Boolean closeStream)
at System.Windows.Application.LoadComponent(Object component, Uri resourceLocator)
at Supremacy.Client.SplashScreen.InitializeComponent() in C:\Users\Mike Strobel\Workspace\Supremacy\SupremacyClient\obj\Debug\SplashScreen.g.cs:line 57
at Supremacy.Client.SplashScreen..ctor() in C:\Users\Mike Strobel\Workspace\Supremacy\SupremacyClient\SplashScreen.xaml.cs:line 21

----------------------------------------

The type initializer for 'Supremacy.Resources.ResourceManager' threw an exception.

at Supremacy.Resources.ResourceManager.GetString(String key)
at Supremacy.Client.StringResource.ProvideValue(IServiceProvider serviceProvider) in C:\Users\Mike Strobel\Workspace\Supremacy\SupremacyWPF\StringResource.cs:line 21
at System.Windows.Markup.BamlRecordReader.ProvideValueFromMarkupExtension(MarkupExtension markupExtension, Object obj, Object member)
at System.Windows.Markup.BamlRecordReader.SetDependencyComplexProperty(Object currentTarget, BamlAttributeInfoRecord attribInfo, Object o)

----------------------------------------

String table file could not be located: C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\Desktop\BOTF2\Resources\Strings\en-US.txt

at Supremacy.Resources.StringTable.Load(String filename) in C:\Users\Mike Strobel\Workspace\Supremacy\SupremacyCore\Resources\StringTable.cs:line 49
at Supremacy.Resources.ResourceManager..cctor() in C:\Users\Mike Strobel\Workspace\Supremacy\SupremacyCore\Resources\ResourceManager.cs:line 18

----------------------------------------

@valcoren: did you do any editing? did you do a clean install (i.e. not unzip over an old version)?

I did a clean install from the link, and also removed .net and reinstalled it, made sure I had all the lastest M$ patches. removed the files from the zipped folder and added them to a new folder on my desktop. if you need it this systems specs are

AMD Core2 2.2GHZ
RAM 2.5GB
HDD 350GB
NVIDIA SLi 7800 (SLI enabled)
OS: WINXP
NORTHBRIDGE chipset

EIDT: I just tried something it does load from teh zipped folder... the older alphas ran from a uncompressed folder..

you should be unzipping it and running it from an uncompressed folder... out of curiousity, what region do you live in? it may have something to do with the localizations.

US Florida ... I fixed the problem though it appears that the extraction was damaged some how.

oh, nevermind then... en-US should always work.

Hehe i'm the one that even told Mike about the Asteroid and Kuiper belts. Mike didn't know they existed beforehand and he wanted to add in one anyways.

...

I've had a look at the en-US file and corrected a couple of typos. I have also rewritten the descriptions for some of the buildings and ships. I didn't bother with the en-UK file coz I know you're running it all off the US one at the moment.

I wasn't able to upload the file to sharepoint - it looks like I havent got upload rights to Supremacy. I uploaded the file to a free file hoster instead, Mike.

Download

downloading this and going to check it out, from what i've read it sounds like this will be a great game when its done ... hopefully this one isnt restricted to a specific resolution ... or im SOL with my old lappy here and will have to wait till i get a new desktop

*EDIT*

Well loaded it up and works great ... havent delved too far into it as of yet but a couple things i noticed that were 'peculiar'

right clicking ALWAYS brings up the switching menu(kinda annoying at times)
And the research thing, not being able to build certain things until ALL techs reach the highest level req(eg mining corps unavail until ALL techs at level 2 not just the requireds)

One other thing as an aside regarding .NET for people that dont know/understand programming

.net uses a JIT Compiler.
Basically this means that it will do the following
A.) Check to see if the program has been registered to the .NET framework on this machine before
B1.) If it has not it will precompile and store the compiled code(this is the cause of the inital load taking longer)
B2.) If it has been registered it checks for code updates and compiles AS NEEDED(reducing time patches take compared to a full re-install).
C.) No changes and been compiled(runs straight out(

The biggest drawback to .NET is that it has to compile the code before running for the specific machine, on the first load, I just wish they'd make an 'installer/compiler' that would run this for you during the install so the load times wouldnt change(this is a .NET issue and not something we can do anything about at this time).

@ventrion: .NET comes with a native image generator (ngen.exe) that will precompile an assembly to reduce load time. However, you lose all of the runtime optimizations that you would get from the JIT compiler.

hmm ... didnt know they implemented that ... although i could see what you mean with the optimization loss.

Meh ... i've been learning C# the past few weeks now and its quite nice. simple and easy to understand how to do things. One question though, and an in depth answer if you have one just email to traenol@gmail.com

I am trying to figure out how to code a research engine that incorporates MOO2 and Pax Impera's research elements for a more realistic research development for a game im making(its not going to be BOTF2 or anywhere near as good looking as yours) and is mainly for me and a friend who like certain aspects of different games, but never see them all incorporated into one.

here is the basic concept:
You have theoretical research, where you research an idea(like say Warp Theory) and then you have developmental research(where you develop a working design based on that research). now in addition to this you have your basic research areas, and you select the research projects you want to work on in each area, or select a 'general' research project in that area that basically works to research everything(but at a much higher cost and time). Along with this im going to be using the Moo2/Stars! ship design elements, where each ship is basically a hull that you add 'modules' into, allowing for numerous different ship designs(this is a feature I love and dont see enough of in TBS games).

My problem is this, I want to do the research as above .. but loading a precompiled list is my problem. I am just looking for advice on as to how to develop this so that the game can be easily modified and extremely flexible.

I also liked the modular MOO2 style made for some fun games

@ventrion: I also liked those parts of MoO2. I'm anticipating a light load at work this week, so I should have some time to ponder your question and send you a detailed answer in the next day or two. I'm interested in hearing more about this game of yours. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask, as I'm sure I've had to deal with a lot of the same issues that you will run into (since we're developing similar games in the same language).

Cheers,
Mike

ironically, looking at the data in the supremacy alpha i downloaded actually answered my question to a degree that i think i might be able to implement quickly ... not sure why i didn't instantly think of XML ... its almost perfect ... and will work for every aspect of the game that i want to be modular and easily altered.

As for the game im making, i'd be more than happy to send you a detailed email in the future as to what im developing. At this point its both a learning experience and eventually a workable product for my own amusement.

My current troubles lie in display(not only getting the display to the graphics card, but in switching screens easily) and the galaxy map. I think i have an idea of how i want it to work, but im not sure how to implement it.

I am currently looking at just a standard BOTF type map(squares all around) but without the rigidness of BOTF and other systems. Basically, will have sectors, each sector will have a 10x10 map grid(none of these grids will be visible to the player) and ships will travel through the smaller units, so you can have multiple ships in different areas of the same 'sector' and it will be a bit more like reality(as in two ships on opposite sides of the same solar system are not really all that close together(except in terms of speed).

This will enable the different speed vessels to actually travel a different speeds (i really dont see a galaxy class cruiser being as slow as in BOTF). The problem lies in storing map data ... i dont want to store all this massive ammount of data in memory the entire time(this will be a lot of data, looking at around 150x150 sectors, each with a 10x10 grid ...)

The only other thing im not sure where to begin with, and thats developing the Fog of War ... I know it needs one, even have the basic understanding of how to implement it. but how do i pass the data to my empires(to avoid the AI cheating and knowing all ships locations and paths).

Im just rambling at this point and dont need to take any more of this thread off topic.

The game you are making BTW is so far exactly what i would have liked BOTF to be(minus certain features from MOO2 that were left out due to the Star Trek universe needing to be consistent ... warbirds with quantum torpedos would be awesome lol)

Yes, XML is an excellent route to go. Not only is it easily modified, but the .NET Framework also provides an easy way to validate XML documents against schemas to ensure that the documents are properly formed (i.e. someone didn't screw something up while making changes). I definitely recommend defining a schema for your XML data files, and doing so will also help you by providing intellisense and validation errors when you edit your XML files in Visual Studio. That definitely helps cut down on input problems like elements that are misspelled, out of sequence, or missing.

Your idea for the map layout sounds intriguing, and the idea of breaking each sector down into subsectors that aren't actually discernable to the player has a great advantage in that you really only need to store map data for the sectors themselves, and not the smaller subsections. Really, the only time you would need to worry about the grid within a sector is when storing the current location of ships and other physical objects. In Supremacy, I define a MapData class that uses an unsigned 32-bit integer array with the same dimensions as the map to store various values. In a single integer, I can store values indicating whether a sector has been scanned, whether a sector has been visited, the scan strength within that sector, and the distance between the sector and the nearest supply post (for fuel range calculations). Each empire has its own MapData instance. You could do the same thing while completely ignoring the smaller "grids" within the sectors. I can show you my implementation if you like.

As for the size of map data, there are several clever ways in which you could minimize the memory footprint of that data while still keeping the information you need quickly accessible. I can provide you with some suggestions if you like.

That would be great, that was an option i was toying with ... but not sure how thats going to affect AI decisions either(the map arrays that is).

As for seeing the code, that would be helpful, but i would understand if you are not willing to show it either(i know how those things can be being a programmer myself).

My biggest struggle at this point though is definitely the visual displays and getting it to show what i want ... i'm new to DX and all my previous programming experience has being through windows forms ... going straight to the video adapter is much different.

As for suggestions im always open to hearing others ways of doing things, helps me learn things im new at, and also helps me to develop other ways of doing things. As I said, you can email me at traenol@gmail.com especially if there is anything that you dont want to post on the forum. ... I really should just start a new thread in another area to keep all this out of here ... in fact i'll do that now, maybe some of the other forum people will have suggestions and it will give me a place to write out my thoughts and see what people think of them, maybe this will also be something people here would like outside of the standard trek universe.

**EDIT**
Made a seperate post for regarding my game specifically
http://www.botfii.armadafleetcommand.co ... 7708#37708

so... any update on supremacy yet

I'm on the long road of diplomacy and AI development... it'll be a while before anything new is released. The next release should be a major milestone though .

Ok thanks for the tips keep on.If you ever need help or anything else,leave me a message i will be glad.

eek ... the all important AI .... good luck man, hope you find something that will work better than BOTF1 *shudders*

First off, Id like to say that this game is shaping up to be a great incarnation, much applause to you on the interfaces.

Been a BotF fan for long time, hehe, my kid enjoys the heck out of it as well, hope to have some more input after we mess around with the latest d-load today.

Keep up the awesome work, only wish I knew something to be useful with to help, hehe.

help wanted

http://www.botfii.armadafleetcommand.co ... pic&t=1752

Thanks for the encouragement, Neshameh. I hope you enjoy the game.

hy,is it possible in your new game to make the minors races expand to other system and colonized it.Is it possible to to make them playable. Thanks for the game it will rock.

Some minor races will be able to expand into other systems, but they will not be playable.

pffffft stupid .net fix coming down at only 30kb/s