Ooh I think the ship is nice enough as it is, Zeleni.

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I don't mind making the change Jig, but it'll mean rejigging things round a bit. (No pun intended )

Here's the list:





If the B'rel becomes the Destroyer and the Raptor becomes the Scout, we need to decide what to do with the other ships, and decide whether the B'rel still gets its upgrades and so on.

Purely as examples, what do people think of these:

















What do people think is best? My personal choice would be option three. The downside to option three however would be that the Klingon fleet would be weaker overall because it is losing a Destroyer type in favour of an extra Scout. The Klingons will however get more frequent updates to their Scout design than the other races AND have the most advanced Scout design - tech 10 compared to the other races' Scouts/Heavy Scouts which are tech 9 - to compensate.

Would the Klingon be weaker or would it be dependent on the number of ships of each type you build and their attributes?


(did google the Klingon Raptor and found others calling it a scout)

scout 1 raptor, upgrades to b`rel scout
ent era bop, destroyer 1 upgrades to movie bop(the bop is both a war ship and scout, size varies i believe), d4 cruiser upgrades to the tos era d7 i think it was. but thats the simple way to do this.

Hmm...if that's the way we're gonna do it Jig, we've hit on another snag - as in the D7 is the Battle Cruiser II.

At this rate we may need to rewrite the entire Klingon shiplist.

Dafedz made the shiplist so that it would be balanced, both in terms of stats, and in ship types. If one race has more advanced ships, another race has cheaper ships so that they can build more of them to compete. Obviously if we need to rejig the entire list then it's going to take a bit of work. And whilst I understand we want to keep things cannon, we did also agree that there would be times when we need to sarifice canon for gameplays' sake.

I'm not so sure that the B'rel IS the upgrade for the Raptor, though. We saw both ships in the same series, so technologically, there would be very little difference between them. The size issue is somethign that comes up all of the time in Trek as well - just look at the K'Vort. Obviously just by scaling up a centuries-old you will be able to build a bigger, more powerful ship.

Anyways, I did some research and Wikipedia says that the Enterprise era cruiser was a D5, not a D4. The D4 was somehow a later ship from around TOS era, and whilst I know the Bird of Prey is the B'rel, the way that some websites present the info, it makes more sense that they are separate ships. Very confusing.

There's STILL no word from Dafedz. Life would be a lot easier if he was around. At least he would be able to explain the reasoning behind some of the peculiarities of the shiplist then.

Am I confused?

Well yes but if we leave the abilities of a Scout I, and all other ships by type, as the Defedz tables call for does it matter what model we put in that type?

As I understand it the type, (Scout I, Destroyer II, ....,) sets the ships abilities in the balanced Defedz game tables. What difference does it make if the model's look, or class, is a raptor or a bop or a BMW as long as it has it's abilities set by the type it is assigned to? Do not change the abilities of a type based on the class of ship you put in it.

(I had to give up on class in place of type in SharePoint for much the same reason.)


This is the Battle Duck of Death I am developing for the Delusions. It may look pathetic but give it the abilities of a Borg cube and look out!

I think the Acamarian Raider is OK but I would just cut back on the number of windows. You could add in a few other details like an insignia or light or outline of a hatch or all of that.

Well excuse me but until you, somebody else or I come up with a better model this is our Klingon Heavy Cruiser I. (built on the former Colony Ship) Yes, I know the guns out on the wings are like the bop. Sorry but that IS the idea. Thanks to ZDarby's constructive advice the warp nacelles are Klingon standard issue.

Excellent! Kenneth your best ship ever!

Err...are you arguing with yourself there, Kenneth?

The problem that I am having with the shiplist is that we want two things:

Make it canon.
Make it balanced.

The canon way of doing things is as Jig said -

Scout 1 Raptor -> scout 2 B'rel
destroyer 1 Ent era bop -> movie bop -> d4 cruiser -> tos era d7.

And to make life easier for you, Kenneth:

Raptor

B'rel

Early Bird of Prey

Movie Bird of Prey

D4

TOS D7

The progression of the ships is to slowly get bigger and more powerful. They don't have any set classes, they're just the biggest til a newer, bigger design comes along and beats them.

This doesn't really match up with the shiplist where we're trying to set designs into specific roles AND make it canon. THAT is the difficulty i'm having. Dafedz, wherefore art thou?

the d4 is the ent era cruiser moe, but to save time they used a d7 cgi model, the d4 was made after lol, but i fai lto see the confusion here, the klings get 3 ships per era like this don`t they? ent they have raptor, b`rel, d4 and they just upgrade to the ones in dafs shiplist, easy peasy mate. all your doing is changing the names around. and should`nt the kling heavy cruiser 1 be either the ki`tinga or the d7? were is the shiplist anyway, i`d better look through it.

Page one of this thread, (Red section ) or http://www.trekmania.net/temp_files/shiplists.htm

Have fun Jig.

Well why not add the option to shift classes?

Just like ship X makes ship Y obsolete, so does ship X make ship Z change class...

A destroyer gets demoted to scout or something..

I will keep on building ships with the understanding that the model's class, type and even race is still up in the air. When the ship list issue is worked out you guys can help me sort it all out.

Trashman has added the Romulan Firehawk model to SharePoint and I created a PNG file for it's image. Is there a place for it on the current ship list? For now I am calling it the Battelhawk I.

I definitely want the Firehawk in the game. I just saw it in the other thread. Very nice ship.

There are a few places where it can go. She's your baby so it's your decision, Trashman!


BATTLEHAWK II
-D'Drexon Class TECH 8


BATTLEHAWK III
-D'Idricon Class TECH 11
You've already made this model Trashman, but I could easily swap them round so the Firehawk is the Battlehawk 3 and the existing model is the Battlehawk 2.


WARBIRD I
-D'Voronir Class TECH 4
This model has been completed by Dafedz, but I haven't seen any images or models of it. If you want it to be the Warbird 1, i'll TRY and ask him if he still has the models, but as you may already know, Dafedz is missing in action at the mo. If there's no word, the Firehawk can take its place.

...

I've updated the shiplist with your Ning'tao Class Heavy Cruiser 1, Kenneth.

Take a look at the Image Library on SharePoint and tell me how to shuffle around the three Trashman Romulan "Battlehawks" we have there.

http://www.botf2.com/Image%20Library/Fo ... ulan&View={2EAB3CAC-2EF3-4EA6-85DB-87B0D9B58BA0}

Nothing says hello like a K't'inga (K Battle Cruiser III)

Awesome!

Wow nice work Kenneth! Shiplist updated.

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I've just had a look, and I can see a mistake in the images. The ship that is listed as the Battlehawk II is the Kerchan - a ship that whilst isn't canon, is supposed to be a successor of the D'Deridex Warbird. It should therefore be the Battlehawk 3 at the very least.

The ship that is currently listed as the Battlehawk III is actually labelled as the Battlecruiser IV as well.

I haven't got time to go through it properly myself as I've got work now, but i'll take a look when I get home tonight.

According to ST Encyclopedia Boslics, Hekarans, Kriosian and Talarians use same ship design... now we have this precious design!


BOSLIC FREIGHTER



HEKARAN CRUISER

KRIOSIAN CRUISER





TALARIAN CRUISER

Nice, like the shinig metal look

Nice work Zeleni.

MOE, it may be best if you go into SharePoint and rename the images and model fills. You know better than I how to assign them.

Looks like i've got a lot of work ahead of me...

Will do, Kenneth.

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Zeleni, the Talarians have two ships - are you still gonna make an update to the model for the Talarian Advanced Cruiser?

Kerchan class, i have looked at that image on sharepoint and it is a mesh ny andrew hobbes, if permission has not been given by him to use his stuff he will go ballistic, he went ape at me once for useing his images even though i had credited him, it was because i had not sought permission (it was when i first began to mod lol) so who has gotten permission from him to use his design?

The image was from Trashman so I assumed he made it. I will get rid of the images until this has been clarified. Trashman, did you get permission? No offense, but that goes for ALL of your models - everyone else included.

I've gone through the Federation so far. All of their images are now accurate and working. The Klingons gave me a headache. Musy be the bloodwine.

While you are at it also ask Andrew Hobbes if there are any other models we could use. His stuff looks great. We could use the help.

MOE, when we have the model files for the new images in the Federation's image library I can turn the images we have into transparent background 270 225 png. The Federation images sure are filling up nicely.

Some of the images that I've put up so far have black background for a reason - adding transparencies wrecks the image because parts of the images that shouldn't turn invisible are.

The only way to fix it would be to manaually fill in each broken pixel in paint or something, but that'll take tons of work so we'll just have to put up with black backgrounds for now - unless you know a way of somehow taking another picture of the models.

I didn t know there is advanced Talarian Cruiser... I guess we have to build it....

- Matress tell me which models have png problems? I ll put them in 3d studio max for new shooting...