untill the 3d engine is ready and ported to the rest of the game we will be useing a 2d combat system

This will look like the battle part of Civilization right? You just have your ships on one side and they have theirs on theirs side? I thougth this was the thought? I just wasn't 100% sure, and it's ealy 8O .

yep

We already were discussing ealier that the NX01 and the NX02 are the same type of vessel namely the NX class, this is because they look the same. But i think that the Columbia in Enterprise just was a upgrade version of the NX01.

So my next comment is a bit dumb. But if you buy a ships at a shipyard then it will have the latest updates right? So this means that they will be more expansive to buy. But what if you have say a nebula, then you won't have the specific upgrades? Or will these not make it in the game?

ok the NX designation is used only for prototypes. so the NX-01 is a different ship to the NX-02, as updates become available for ships the newly built ships will have them, i believe we wanted those without these updates to have to go to a shipyard for refitting?

Does anyone here has every seen a NX02? Just place a screenshot here.

A couple of points on ships.

Does anyone actually want the big bird of prey in the game? You know the one, it plagued early tng before they could afford to design the Vor'Cha. Kind of like a BOP that'd been hit by the 'honey I blew up the kid' gun. Some call this ship a k'vort and the smaller a b'rel, even though those names have been used once each- for the identical stock footage! I think there's enough other ships to avoid that abomination, but who knows.

The refitted version of the Galaxy from all good things. I think this should be an upgrade of existing Galaxies, very late game. This is better than it being a seperate ship! The X tag can be dropped too, the refit was a lot less extensive than the Constitution refit, and yet that retained it's class name. Obviously this only applies if the ship HAS to be in.


Actually, I could just mod this stuff, I'll stop now.

The Bird of Prey, is, and has been an major part of the Klingon fleet for ages, theve revamped the design a number of times. The original, around kirk time as the B'Rel, a small craft which was design for long range scoutning, then in about the 3 series of TNG they rredisgined it and made it about the same size as a galaxy saucer, and called it the K'Vort. this was a main vessle buuilt ion the sucess of the B-rel, and the Vor'cha came along not long after, but the K.Vort still has its place as a long range vessle. They redid it again during the Domion war, you see BIG BoP's, on DITL he called it a D'Tar, but theres never been confirmation of this design, and its not been seen from then on, but i like the idea of them being redone again, like the D'Deridex Warbird.

So YES Bird of Prey, B'rel, K'Vort should be in, and prehaps the D'Tar as a future one (its easy to do, just make one 3d file and enlarge it :p)

i agree with hedgy

Brel - IN
Kvort - IN
Dtai - in = according to my sources its called Dtai but ill do sum more research and try and confirm it

Sounds reasonable, I know I'll mod the big one out though.

Just so you know. The exact same bit of footage was used for both the k'vort and b'rel class. Therefore they must be the same size. B'rel was only used in the rascals episode, commandeered by the ferengi. It was the footage from yesterdays ent- in which it was called the k'vort.

In the movies they never used a class name, until the d-12, which I'd speculate was smaller, rotarran size.

Hi, i'm back! Friday night there was this storm, and suddenly it hit my house. What do you think? The entire ISDN stuff with fax and tel were . So i couldn't post or be on this website for TWO days! 8O

Anyway back on topic:
The K'Vort is the larger version of the B'rell. It was build because of the succes of the B'rell, and to make a fast a deadly ship. That is why, this ship should be in, and should be bigger, because it isn't a upgrade of the B'rell, it is a new ship.

Welcome back iwulff.

You might have missed my previous post which explains why the k'vort b'rel issue is wrong. The only time they've been given those descriptions are in the encyclopedia, which is wrong more than it's right.

Still we've seen a larger Bird of prey then the B'rell version in DS9. Why not call this one the K'Vort, i actually like the name and it's model. Besides they were also in the CCG cardgame of Decypher .

Liked your idea about the Galaxy-X. Because it IS a upgrade version in StarTrek. I though i tried that in BOTF?

Even though they are the same size in canon, the 2 designations work well for small and large in the game. There was never a big bop in ds9 as by then they had the vor'cha, so the bop could act as a small ship as was intended.

My only qualm is the ridiculous upscaling. Imagine if the air force said, "due to the incredible success of the f-14 fighter, we are making all jumbo jets look exactly like the f-14 but 10 times the size". Now that would be stupid. The bop model doesn't have enough weapons to cover a ship that size.

We already have a small amount of Klingon vessels, why not add a ships which has had a appearance in StarTrek? I mean we could make it a bit smaller, but perhaps twice as big as a B'Rell?

There would never ever be an instance where a large ship would look exactly like a small one- even so far as the same scale windows!

However, it is a canon ship at around 350 metres, so if it's in it should be that size. It will be up to the individual modder whether they keep it in. I kinda wish they'd just used the battlecruiser in the show, but they probably felt that model was too old.

QUICK BATTLE


This idea is a long way off, but when the 3d combat is ready there should be a quick battle mode to see how ships stack up to one another. I'd rarely use it out of enjoyment, but it would be ideal for testing new mods in battle with similar ships, or for anyone who merely wants to edit the shiplist.

I guess there's little point until the combat side is ready as I understand the interim measure will be flat, meaning ships won't have any use for their dorsal/ventral weapons. The ships will have to be rebalanced anyway once the combat is ready.

This would be useful for rebalancing later though, I know I've made ships way too weak/powerful in the past and not realised until playing.[/b]

When you have researched the quantum torpedo, will it then be possible to upgrade with, say a excelsior, to replace there old photon torpedoes with quantium's?

Photon torpedoes, are less expensive in resources
5 Credits
2 raw materials

Quantium torpedoes, are ofcourse more.
10 Credits
4 raw materials

Something like that perhaos?

I think that as far as quantums are concerned, a ship would need a specific refit to have quantum tubes fitted. Galaxy class ships are still using standard photons throughout the war, yet the lakota was fitted with quantums, (the lakota had been given a special refit by leyton who was planning to use the lakota to battle the rest of starfleet in his coup) it's unlikely any other excelsiors had quantums.

Having said that, this does raise an interesting point about photon torps in general. In botf, all ships had torpedoes of differing power. Since torps will be carried at a starbase, an older ship would restock with the newest torpedoes. For example, an excelsior returns from a 5 yr mission and has used all it's torps, it restocks at the same base a galaxy has just used, surely both ships would be carrying the same warheads, the galaxy would simply have more of them.

Yes, that's what i was talking about, that they needed a special refit for carring quantium torpedoes. But still could u give say, a NX01 quantium torpedoes, if you want that to happen?

I think your example is a bit clumsy, an NX could be vapourised in a single phaser blast by the time quantums are developed, meaning it would be a lot of cost for nothing.

Basically, I think that each ship should have 1 or 2 refits depending on the era it appears in. If in the later refit quantum tubes are fitted then fine, if not then no. I don't think you should be able to order a ship to have a specific modification like having a new weapon fitted.

The thing we don't want to see are fleets of ships firing quantums. For 1 the federation would batter everyone else into submission, and 2 it would look so wrong for a Miranda to carry quantums.

We'll be able to mod this anyway, so if you want the final Nebula upgrade to include quantums it's up to you, but I don't think I would really.

I agree on that, but i only want this to be clear. I don't want a miranda to have quantiums but where is the border for having this refit? WOuld a excelsior in it's last refit have a quantium torpedo laucher or would a Galaxy class have one?

And i don't think it was clumsy to say this, because there was some sarcasm in my post.

Ok, see where you were coming from.

I's up to the guys who do the ship stats which ship has what. But I know I'll be changing certain things anyway.

Remember iwulff, each ship has a final upgrade and then the next step after that is a new ship to replace that one. A Miranda for example will get it's final refit around the early TNG time, then by the end of that time the class is completely replaced in the build queue by the Intrepid Class.

At this point you cannot pack any more onto a Miranda, the subsequent upgrades will be for the Intrepid, which will eventually phase the Miranda out completely over a long enough timescale.

Personally, I see no problem with a Galaxy refit arount the time of Nemesis or later, giving it quantums. However I wouldn't want anything older to be so equipped.

You know about this Galaxy refit, would this be the Galaxy-X refit? With a nice phaser cannon, a extra nacelle, and some nice quantium torpedoes, we never have seen it fire torpedoes, so it could be possible.

I'd say as long as it's long enough after the Sovereign and Defiant classes then the Galaxy could get the All Good Things refit, with the extra nacelle.

That ship would definitely have quantum torpedoes, unless it's torpedo armament has been completely replaced by that cannon. I'd guess it would have quantums as a backup.

Do you know, when the Galaxy-X refit came into service? I mean we have seen the episode, but that isn't the date when this Galaxy-X refit will be available, for the first time. Still i understand that there should be some time between the Sovereign and the Galaxy-X refit.

I don't think the technology is that far off for a number of reasons.

*When the Constitution was refit it was given new nacelles that looked completely different, the Galaxy refit was simply given an extra nacelle of a design that is already out of date in our time.

*None of the other weapons look any different, if the ship was refit 30 years from now, those type-X phasers would be almost useless.

*The bridge module is clearly the same old one from tng, just slightly altered.



The more I look at this refit the less sense it makes, I mean, why add a third nacelle of a completely obsolete design when you could just replace the 2 existing nacelles with sovereign type or batter. It's like adding a 5th wheel to 1950's car and expecting it to outrun a new jaguar.

Personally, I think the refit is quite old by the time of the episode, and the canon was a modular component so could be replaced as a newer version is researched. As a result, the firepower was devastating enough to destroy those Negh'Vars (also an ageing class by then), but I doubt the ship's shields or spaceframe could withstand much fire from a current class.

I guess the refit was like the current Excelsiors of our time, they can be given new weapons but are still effectively obsolete.

(sorry for the rant)

Agreed,

i was wanting to talk about the resource cost for torpedoes. When you're have in the fleet a support (not freigther) vessel, you could click on a button resupley, and it would do as much it can do in one turn (there is ofcouse a limit). But perhaps if you have a supply (not freigther) vessel in your fleet, you could also click on the ship itself, and say resupley or something. Perhaps Mykuss his screen would be welcom here! Perhaps there will be a extra button when there are stupport (not freigther) vessels in your fleet? This would make it all a lot easier.

I dunno, I like the idea of torpedoes being infinitely available from starbases etc, but ships can run out so must restock when low.

I think the support vessel should basically have an infinite amount also, but only restock 1 ship per turn.

I don't think any other ship should restock ships with torps, it complicates the issue.

yes, but i was wanting to talk, about the price that those torpedoes have. Repairs are also going to cost something, and torpedoes also. What are the cost going to be?