sMinor Race Emblems final edition.


Few rare canon logos ( rare it' s a wrong term, it's better to say that this is the only place where you can see them, they are drawn for the first time from star trek serials).





Emblems for download:

http://www.botf2.com/Shared%20Documents ... %20Emblems

Your old emblems are included in the latest Supremacy release (used in the diplomacy screen). You can overwrite them with your new ones to see how they look in-game .

Ooh...3D and colourful.

Any particular reason why they're dead? I'll update the old thread images (Since those are all dead links) once you've finished the images, Zeleni.

Your work just gets better all the time. I love the attention to cannon detail. Save the old stuff for BOTE.

was the icon not "baby-orange" resp. pink in botf? (not that we'd need it too in that color, but orange would be my favorite )

Yes it was, some kind of light orange. Yellow one is more conspicuous on galactic map but everything is same like in old Botf only color is different.

yes, but only if they're known. unknown vessels still got the

100 minors wondering around would make huge mess on galactic map. I don' t think mike will implement something like that, maybe only top minors with highest expansion ratio??

well, in bote map, only 30 max are in one game.

even on huge map in supremacy, they won't be "in one place" and I doubt more than 3 or 4 would ever cross their paths on these scales..plus their expansion is limited by their fuel supply so what you rather have later on are more or less large spots on the map (8x8 high and wide) where one or two minor races are concentrating their fleets mostly over their homeworlds - thus btw. neatly signalize where those homeworlds on the map - and that pattern all over the map then.

so yes, it is not out-of-question to implement such a feature. Only thing nagging would be that currently our icons are within the main races fonts. In worst case sir p. has to add each and every minor emblem 6 times to each font separately after having downsized and "black&whitened" the original image. pretty much work there I think..

Oh I know that the chances of something like in my image happening are one in a million, but I just posted it to sho what I meant. I don't know if you guys remember, but I posted the image quite a long time ago when we were first discussing having emblems in the first place - that's why I thought they *would* be in the game like that. I keep most of my images in my photobucket accounts (Yes that is plural but shh!) so it was easy enough to access it again.

As far as i remember the images were only going to be used in the Diplomacy screen and not the main galactic one. Would make sense just to use a generic Minor race icon for the galactic screen anyway.

On one side not this is the most depressing day ever!!!

I shall have to hunt down our two Croat posters and vaporize them

Regards Wolfe

It would be too confusing having different icons for all the minors on the map--who is actually going to memorize which logos belong to which race anyway?

Ooohne England, fahren wir zur EM, ohne England fahrn wir .... (I do like the Croats even more now )

edit: lol zeleni!

well, no one of course. but you would instantly see if those minor fleets belong to different minors and not the same one. plus one could think of green, yellow and red thin frames around those logos to symbolize friendly, neutral and enemy minor fleets..

Celebrate with us Wolfe aren' t you Welsh ??

(better luck next time )

I guess it would be more work to code in all the minor icons but it would look nice.

It wouldn't require any additional code, it would actually just require removing some code that restricts fleet indicators to empires...

I know I will not be able to recall the race for each icon. It will, however, look nicer to see the different icons on the map in place of one maker for all. You could see that the ship over there is a different minor race than the one over here. Also it would just look nice having all that color and variety floating around.

You do, of course, run into a problem if you have more than 3 races or so in the same sector, as you start running out of space for icons. If someone can suggest an elegant way of dealing with that and provide a mock-up, I'll consider it.

Could you pull down a list of icons if you pace the pointer over? Could the icons rotate or migrate in a continuous loop by a field of view like a ticker tape display? Could the icons change from one to the next? You will have the same problem when more than three major races end up in the same place. I guess there had better be some way to show it. Have some more pie and I know you will think of something. I just make models and shoot off my mouth. You are the dev Q guy here.

well that problem also happens when 3 or more majors are in one sector, so how did botf solved that problem again? Multiple logo display (more than 3 resp. 4) on such small grid scale is tedious to look on IMO. Even if it's done via tooltips or popups (who want those..?).

Well, one should ask oneself what's the purpose of those symbols, well, it's to quickly see any of yours, enemy's or neutral fleets on the map so you can manage them somehow.
Thereby it's not important on first glance how many of yours, enemy's or neutral parties are involved, it's just important for the eye, that it can see, there are some of them in this or that sector.

So the answer is relatively easy then. Stick to those three categories and find an algorithm that works in all constellations and gives you the best-possible overview while not overload galactic map view. Conveniently, 3 is exactly the number in question here, because as mike stated, more than 3 in one sector will be troublesome .

so let's get it done won't we :
First off, your symbol should always have top priority wherever you have fleets on the map. That means yours is always at the upper left corner of the sector whenever you are in a sector, be it crowded with other fleets or not.
If there are others, then at second below your logo, there'll be next strongest enemy major logo displayed if one is present. Strongest means overall strongest strategically (best military and economic value like in botf, based on your current intel so not to reveal too much information about minors' or majors' strengths). Also if only a minor allied or affiliated to your strongest enemy major is in the sector, it'll be displayed at that spot.
At third spot there will be the strongest neutral major shown. If no major's there, then the strongest neutral minor among the minors present.

In case of you not present in that sector, replace your symbol with the symbol of your strongest major resp. minor ally (same game as above in terms of display sequence). If no ally is in place, then either just scrap the upper left corner completely by making the placeholder transparent and have the other fleets shown as if you'd be there (i.e. in second and third place) or let them move up one step and let the enemy take over your upper left place and the neutral ones the former enemy place (my preferred solution..).

The only thing that is not shown with this algorithm and which I actually would like to see, is any of your allied fleets together with your fleets in one sector. The algorithm would only show your fleet and you'd never notice at first glance that there is an ally too in that sector. An enhancement to my algorithm above would then be to add your strongest ally (if more than one again are in that sector) not below your symbol but next to it on right hand side. It should be feasible to do so since those logos are small enough to not screw the sector up totally on galaxy map.

After you click on such a sector you then see fully which fleets are in there and from whom so the algorithm does its job of making you aware of any ally, enemy or neutral party in all sectors on the map whilst maintaining a clean overall look! (now my paypal account is... )

The only solution I can think of that isn't posted yet is to simply have the game change the icons/ship groupings if there are three or more races in a sector. It could:

Only display the Empires and/or

Only display the Empires and the mini-Empire races and/or

Display the minors separately in the list but give them all the single alien race icon on the map and/or

Group the minors all together in the list and under the single alien race icon on the map.


Those are the only ways I can think of.

So Mal are you saying that the full list of all icons would show up in an expanded window, or zoom in, when you click on the crowded region? Something indicates more ships than just yours in the upper left and you know to check this out? If not that could the full list of icons come up in a solar system display in the way the original BOTF showed the star and planets at the bottom of the screen? Like what MOE is saying, "Display the minors separately in the list but give them all the single alien race icon on the map..."

I think the original would only show the full list of ship on the left when you were in the region yourself or had improved long range scanners?

that's my point. the full view only when you're clicking on the sector on the map like we all know from botf. but on general galaxy map view, we only see three (four if you count the ally in) icons max at a time: yours at 1st place upper left, enemy below and neutral one (always the strongest) in third row.

It would be nice to have a new icon that just means more than one minor or more than one other major. If you are the Federation and the Klingons, Romulans, Biopolarians and Republicans show up you would see more than just Federation, Klingon and Bioplarian. You would see Federation, upper left, plus a multiple major icon plus a multiple minor icon. When you highlight the region it expands to show all (or somewhere else it shows all the party guests.) Only three or four icons on the galaxy map but it tells you what you need to know when you look into this region. I take it that coding an icon what would morph from one major to the next or one minor to the next would be hard to make?

i don't know but it'd be too much morphing on screen in my eyes

good point with the multiple icon. a simple ^ or a ° should be enough indicator..

I like the solution Mal came up with 3 icon slots for allies (including self), neutrals, enemies. convieniently 3, very elegant. That with the multiple indicator should work nicely. I thought of morphing too, but when I pictured the map with many icons morphing in sync, I got virtual nausea

I like the * indicator for multiples. As it means repeat to me

Maybe the multiple indicator could be fancier than just a symbol?

Iconbash
anyway, I'm off, to have some soup, and then bed see yas

Edit: actually, look in the top right, it indicates diplomacy status with colours, http://www.trekmania.net/temp_files/new ... _ships.jpg
Maybe we can use colours too.

But I still think * or some other multiple indicator is the clearest way.

I've tried few colorful imagebashs with horrible result, after you zoom out on galactic map you can't say which logo is. Defenetly we need big, clear and neutral sign.