Thanks for that and all your hard work. I will translate the ship class names as we come back to work on the models. Fighter = attach / destroyer, Tanker Freighter = Transport

We had found more than one minor race ship lists a while back. I just want to make sure, when you have the time, that the minor race list on page one of this thread is the real deal.

I asked Mike about the construction ship upgrades, or not, for the major races as well. (Construction I, Construction II,....)

Oh sorry about that. Construction ships are definitely in; they will be the ones that build your Science Stations, Depots, Outposts, and Starbases.

ALL non-combat vessels - even the armed ones - will be auto-upgraded in the game. Other than the ships of the minor races, no other ships will do that. As far as I know, each Empire only has one construction ship. We might need to speak with Dafedz and think about adding more to balance out the shiplsit. More advanced ships will be able to build stations faster or more cheaply, for instance.

ERm...since when do shipyards have different number of bays? (speaking of all the canon shipyards we've seen)
Shipyards just get bigger so they can work on a bigger ship class or multiple smaller vessels.

Personally i wouldn't worry about redoing all the shipyards, it seems a pointless endeavour just to encompass the varying levels.

Differing sizes of each level shipyard can just be taken up by the modeller, of which any changes which he feels will distinguish them from other shipyards and levels should be enough. No need to hamstring him in with the specific game description of the shipyards.

Regards Wolfe

While you're right Trashman, the increasing number of bays is so that you can service more ships in the game. Dafedz made a mockup of the construction screen aaages ago. I don't believe we ever released it on the forums, but I kept a copy of it for myself hehe. Supremacy has undergone a lot of changes since this was made, and I doubt something like this will be used without changes, but it illustrates roughly how the shipyards will potentially work:



Bays not only allow you to construct ships, but to repair them as well. That isn't shown in this mockup, however. Having more bays on the model would make the ability to construct multiple ships "correct", although not technically cannon.

Meh, you guys are the modellers. You can decide what will look best. I'm expecting great things either way.

Doesn't this go against the KISS rule?
some things should be abstracted fr gameplay reasons. When you have lots of planets with shipyards, that is both tedious and confusing.

Larger shipyard already have the advantage of having more construction points available.

So a light shipyard can build a scout in 1 turn
A medium shipyard can build 2 scouts or 1 light cruiser in 1 turn.
A heavy shipyard can build 3-4 scouts or 1 explorer/battleship in 1 turn.

It regulates itself, especially if unused CP's are added to the next turn total.

Repair can be handeled the same. CP's are automaticely used to repair the most damaged ships each turn.

Like I said, this was a really early interface mockup and I was just using it as a potential example of how we could make the system work. I wasn't actually suggesting implementing a screen like this.

Still, you're right Trashman. We really should keep to the KISS rule if we can. We've already implemented the increasing ability of shipyards to build small ships faster by adding in a build efficiency rating. Small shipyards have a 25% efficiency rating, or build ships at 25% of the industrial output of a system, medium shipyards have a 50% rating, and large shipyards have a 100% rating. Fleetyards have a 100% rating with a 25% build bonus - they build ships with a rate of 125% the total industrial output of the system.

The Dominion are a bit different though. All of their shipyards are 25% more efficient than the shipyards of the other Empires. So their small shipyard has a 50% build efficiency rating whilst their fleetyards have a 50% bonus instead of 25%. If you build their fleetyard in a particularly large system, you might be able to pump out 3 battleships every 2 turns. (Once the game has been balanced of course)

fighter squadron = attach ships squadron for minor races defending homeworld, filed under minor race ships

Looks like the Sukhoi Su-47.

Stacking up models could also give us a way around the rebuild of the yards, extra ship bays issue. If you need four bays gust load four one-ship yards into the one model file. The non cannon looking monstrosities are not seen until the far future fleetyard. Shipyard Medium and Shipyard Large are just a collections of two and then four yards that we already have on sharepoint.

If we do that Kenneth, would it affect the size of the shipyards in any way, as the the models have to be set in size don't they? So wouldn't puting in four shipyards mean each yard is quarter of the original size?

I'm not fluent in the modellerish language, so please enlighten me.

Speaking of which, I'll have to do some re-working on the fleetyards.

The Fed ones are way too big (only 50% construction increase compared to a Large shipyard after all) and I may have to do some tweaking on others. Too many ship construction docks, too large?

1) Q: Are the yard sizes a problem when we start to put two and four in one model file?
A: No. We have not reached the point of scaling our models but there is no problem making them bigger or smaller to meet our needs. We will go through a phase of applying scale to the models (so a scout is small, a cruiser larger and a Starbase is humongous.) There is a limit on the poly count, complexity of the mesh, so we need to make sure that our composite models of fighters and yards do not exceed our established limits. What size they appear to be in the 3D engine is not a problem. We can make that anything we need.

2) Q: Is the Federation Fleetyard too much with all those bays?
A: In my opinion no. I like the idea of putting the ship yards together to match the number of bays assigned in the game parameters but when it comes to fleetyards there is room for artistic license. (That is one man's opinion.) If you think it will look better then OK. We are all just grateful for your fine work Trash so use your own judgment here. I hope you do not mind if I try to put your federation shipyard together into 2 yard and 4 yard complexes this weekend.

I think this looks better. Now the yards look more like yards.

Federation Shipyard Small



Federation Shipyard Medium



Federation Shipyard Large



Federation Fleetyard



I moved this one over to the Minor Race Shipyard

I have been wondering how we would establish scale for our ship and station models. If someone has a better idea or understanding of models let me know.

Here is a model to use as a ruler for our ships and stations. If our ships were cigars the relative size would look like this. Knowing what a wide angle view it will be when we get a fleet onscreen I do not want to make the Starbase bigger than this. We would never see the scouts. What do you think about the relative sizes?


Scout = Scout, Probe, and down in size to Attach ship and orbital battery
Destroyer = Destroyer, Dominion Attach ship, Surveyor, Frigate
Cruiser = Cruiser, Battlehawk, Construction ships
Battleship = Battleship, Dreadnought, Warbird, Colonyships and Transport
Outpost = Outpost, Science station, Smaller Borg ships, Shipyards
Starbase = Starbase

The "Ship and Station Scale Ruler" model is on SharePoint.

And what size would the Planets be?

This is a good idea, kenneth. Scaling isn't something that we've really talked about much lately. I don't know if there's any point in actually sorting that out until all of the models are ready, but we can certainly discuss roughly what it should be like.

Mmmm scaling the ships was a pain in the ass , not to mention i think i have the engine set up so all the ships are placed backwards and therefore need to be rotated lol.

Regards Wolfe

Yeah I had noticed that Wolfe. Ships appear to face each other when combat starts, but as soon as you issue orders the ships suddenly turn around. I just thought the Captains were cowards.

@ cdrwolfe

Please load up the Federation Cruiser II, Constitution from SharePoint into your 3D engine. I want to see if my scale ruler matches up with what you would expect for TOS Enterprise.

Federation Cruiser II

If it is too large by how much...


Card Yard Small

Card Yard Medium

Card Yard Large

I noticed that sometimes though only rarely, i think one of the commands is resetting the rotations of some ships, i'll look into it.



Here you go on comparisons, easy for me to rotate and scale though so don't worry to much.

Regards Wolfe

I see and thanks. You really have done some impressive work.

About scale: I take it the size of the model is not a problem?

About the orientation: I think I know what the problems is. I used the Y+ axis as up and the X+ as forward for the ship in Milkshake. In Ultimate Unwrap that orientation loads the model as Y+ right side and X+ forward for the ship. (as in your image?) Also it may need to be Z+ forward and not X+?

To test this I have rotated the orientation of that Enterprise to what Ultimate Unwrap has as Y+ up and X+ forward. It is now reloaded in the Federation Cruiser II Constitution folder on SharePoint in that orientation. Please test the new orientation.

If this works I can reset all the models as we go.

In other news: Mesh for the Vulcan Cruiser I, D'Kyr type

Yup, I'll definately have to make the Fed fleetyards smaller. It has 6 small yards and 4 medium/large ones ATM. that give it WAAAY more capacity than it has in-game.

Nearly Kenneth, it is no longer on it's side but is still facing to the left.

Regards Wolfe

Ah, so we got the Y axis correctly but it is clearly Z+ forward and not X+. (as seen in Ultimate Unwrap and not Milkshape) I have made it so for the Federation Cruiser II, Constitution on Sharepoint. It should load correctly now.

As I scale and correct the orientation on our models I will put an (ok) on the folders. We can see the ones that check out as game ready.

Thanks for your help and great work!

I got tired of working on the Vulcan cruiser and stopped here. It will be on SharePoint as soon as I can get back on.

Nice can't wait to add it

Dominion Shipyard Small


Dominion Shipyard Medium


Dominion Shipyard large


I will put these on SharePoint if it ever comes back online.

Klingon Yards Small Medium and Large

Our sharepoint site, where we hold all of the stuff for the various games, recenly died, which is why many of the images here are currently dead. We are working to fix the problem and replace what we can, but the simple fact of the mattter is that we've potentially lost a lot of work.

I have most of the models. It will take time to reload them though as they are not so nicely organized one three computers as they were on SharePoint. I will also take the time to see that all models are now scaled and oriented to be 3D engine (game ready) when the go on SharePoint.

First things first and that is to clear the tears from my eyes so I can read the screen. Then I rebuilding the folder tree on SharePoint to match the shiplist. If you have models on your hard drives please wait for me to rebuild that structure.