Any news about demo Wolfe

Yes, it's a punishing crippling piece of code that does its utmost to mock me every day .

Goind after weird bugs can be fun

Regards Wolfe

AHA!, found the bastid......

Apparently my newbness to C# knows no bounds .

Luckily i'am an intuitive fellow.

I normally thought that calling an instance of a class just created it and didn't run any methods found within, apparently not so when it is part of a window.

Well you learn something knew everyday.

Regards Wolfe

will you implement text feedback about damages done to a ship after a hit just like in botf? maybe along with some explosions and leaking warp plasma when shields are down and hull was hit.

Already done on some level, there is a hitpoint / health status of each ship you can bring up, along with particle effects damage which occurs when a ship has reach 1/2 hull strength and then again at 1/4 hull strength.

Regards Wolfe

alright, it's just in my tests the ships never survive much long when a wave of photon torpedos is flying at them so I never actually saw the particle effects damage because the ships outright exploded .

a toggable text message system (let's say two lines at the bottom of the screen) would be just about perfect .

btw. could you block certain rotation angles for ships in tight formations? I mean just take the situation at the beginning of your demo with the 5 ships aligned next to each other. If I now give an order with the z key to gather around just a little more up their current position, they seem to wildly rotate and actually take angles at which they will undoubtedly intersect courses and collide if they move along these lines for a few seconds at impulse speed. also, rotation in formations should be synchronized to give it a convincing fleet maneuvre feeling . Different kinds of selectable formations (V-shaped formation, lined-up, side-by-side, bulk, sphere formation, etc.) with selectable distances would be nice then.

First off thanks for the feedback Malv and others.

1 - The demo you have Malv probably doesn't have particle smoke turned on which will be in the next update

2 - Text info and anything related to gameplay feedback will be added, though a good chunk will have to be tied in with when i start working on the GUI, now that i have begun the front end menu systems etc i have some knowledge to approach it. However considering its complexity, discussion should be implemented into looking to what we want with a GUI and to be displayed etc.

Considering my newbness with WPF and the farceness off have to redo alot of my previous work in it you may also have to consider it depends on how much free time i can pursuade MStrobel to help with tips etc considering he has graciously helped me throughout previously.

3 - With regards to the last two issues, the new demo has a grouping and formation element (Circle, Arrow, Line and Column) but at the moment this is only for that starting positions, transferring it into the engine will mean i'll have to tweak the algorithms a bit to get them to work robustly.

With regards to movement and grouped ships, yes there is that element where you select multiple ships and click to move and the output positions are a bit bunched up.

Currently the algorithm for determining the end positions focuses more on the target position rather then the spacing of the ships, i'll have a look at how homeworld handle it and see if i can make any improvements.

As you have pointed out previously one other problem is that moving them to a position where they bunch up means they can find it hard to reach the target position and 'Dance' around a bit .

Regards Wolfe

Besides text message display, I would want a box with current ship data and respective text messages popping up when I hover over a ship for 1 or 2 seconds telling me its stats in detail including current formation/group and orders as well as morale (if we gonna implement that tactical-wise; just imagine a lonesome oberth going up against 2 BoPs; the crew might feel frightened if you order them to attack instead of the odds..) and number of crewmen still alive (both should affect ship performance in battle such as ability to navigate, reload shields, fire weapons, which can be temporarily "down"/not available) and reloading status of shields and weapons.

Then I want a sidebar menu where I see my overall fleet status versus the enemy ones (only the vital parts like number of ships, maybe even differentiated by ship types to better see the strength).

Then I'd like to have a "hail the enemy fleet/vessel" option either on the sidebar or as a regular command for each ship. When dealing with minor races or in battles where you don't want to actually kill the enemy crew because of diplomatic repercussions, I'd like a "disable enemy ship, do not destroy" and "board enemy ship" command too. Of course one needs to discuss at least the latter command since it could lead to excessive boarding over the usual destroying commands that normally should be used in battles.

I'd also like to have the ability to give general commands to my fleets on that magic sidebar in terms of general orders like being aggressive or more cautious and evading which should result in likewise behavior on the battle field (my "artillery ships" should stay a little behind the others on "cautious" while aggressive turned on destroyers means the go for the enemy to break their lines apart and hunt their artillery ships). Also I want an option where I can decide if I want to have my ships give themselves orders of different kinds as in having the AI flexibly support you on the battlefield or if I want to really have them follow and carry out my orders only and stick to them until I give them new ones.

The GUI should also allow me to set tactical way- and gathering points in case you give a general avoid or evasive maneuvre order so your ships don't scatter helplessly around but try to reach a certain area instead where they can recombine. Waypoints should include auto-switching to new orders once a ship reaches a waypoint (you can "assign" orders to waypoints that ships automatically take over when they have orders to reach that waypoint), so you can for example order your destroyers to attack aggressively while on their way to waypoint A (which can be the computed center of a moving enemy fleet so the waypoint moves too possibly) and try to evade enemy fire while on their way from waypoint A to B and circle around waypoint C when having arrived there. A could be an enemy destroyer and cruiser fleet while C is the enemy heavy cruiser / "artillery" fleet such describing a typical ds9 breaking enemy lines apart attack with subsequent artillery ship attack.


Grouping ships and giving them shortcuts on your keyboard like in Homeworld is a must too together with a quick popup "bottom-bar" with all such-made groups for quick choosing per mouse-click. The general idea behind enemy ship grouping and waypoints is to make it possible to set dynamic targets at the beginning of the combat and then just watch it or only do minor tactical changes when needed. It increases fun when you don't have to click furiously to keep your ships on your intended track .

Right-click should not deselect ship but attack a specific target if mouse is hovering over an enemy ship or flying towards a friendly ship with orders to help and stick to that ship (a new order: escort) if mouse is hovering over a ship of your own fleet.


oh and maybe feedback from your grouped ships would be nice as in 'we're suffering severe casualties during circle maneuvre, request change of tactics to fly-by-attack. permission granted?' (button: yes or no). And also a way to record or choose from certain pre-given evasive maneuvres and label new ones Delta-4 or something like that. Furthermore recording certain order procedures like first circling, then after two full circles, switching to fly-by and head-on attack, then switching to evade, then repeat all over and so on. This 'request change of tactics' could also be just an additional voice-recorded warning as to look after your ships when a lot of them within a group are being destroyed relative to the total number of ships in that group. makes it less complicated when there's no extra button popping up all the time to switch tactics for groups .

and resistance is futile btw.. I would give all ships "fear"-morale when fighting Borg that further diminishes their abilities to withstand them. only veteran crews would be immune against this side-effect.

The Federation especially should have a morale problem when attacking either an overwhelmingly larger enemy fleet in open space (not its own territory when defending for example a colony) and/or neutral ships, especially colony ships. it should be possible that a crew denies and refuses to follow direct orders protesting under some starfleet regulation that would make this order unlawful resulting in no attack and a courtmartial of that crew afterwards and its replacement. I want to prevent the federation from mindlessly sending in kamikaze ships at larger enemy fleets to make highest-possible damage but certainly die for the sole purpose of attacking enemy territory. Within their own territory that's a different thing. There such kamikaze attacks, especially on troop transporters are generally allowed/conducted by their crews. Morale can also change during a fight, when the odds get better/lower a certain point in order to give the player a hint to better withdraw fleet before it is completely annihilated.

how about giving a defender the possibility to choose environments for combat, let's say in a nebula-covered sector where one can choose to either fight within the nebula or wait for the enemy at a spot outside the nebula? Same for quasars where one can decide to fight near or far to the gravity center of it affecting movement. In a nebula fight, shields are inoperable plus good scanners are vital to survive the battle. The attacker can choose to withdraw quickly if the so-chosen environment by the defender doesn't really suit him.

Also a cool thing would be the possibility to order your ships back into a present starbase for quick-repair instead of just warping out with the usual retreat command. If then bays could open accordingly in the engine, it would be perfect. To fly outside starbase weapon range would be a good general order for your ships..

Also, not all ships participating in the combat should be known from the start. Especially cloaked ones shall be unknown and hit the unknowing enemy hard. Maybe also local privateer and pirate ships could be parked nearby and warp-in unknowingly to support one side (such a "deal" could be struck right before battle for let's say some credits or parts of the plunder). btw. plunder...

you can also have an order where you send heavily damaged vessels out of the battlefield or you select that all ships suitable for long range fire, will attack certain positions in the enemy lines, etc..it was homeworld I think that had it too. you could draw your mouse that way that you could also determine the distance at which your ships should stay while firing. you right-clicked on the enemy spot and kept pressing right mouse button and pulling the mouse towards the direction of your ships. the further you pulled the mouse, the farther the distance they were lining up. could also have been Cossacks 2, don't know. your ships then lined up side-by-side perpendicular to the line you draw with your mouse towards your ships.

Excellent CdrWolfe, looks awesome!

One thing only, klingon ships have problem with rendering texture, ships are completly white.

Once again, excellent!

Nice list Malv, thanks for uploading it.

Zeleni, with regards to the klingon ships, and this applies to others aswell, some of the textures either don't show up or don't have any in some case, or in the case of above there emissive element of the texture seems to respond to high to the light within the engine.

The best examples of where it works is probably the federation ships, i.e consitiution refit etc, though there is a slight problem of it being to dark on the side opposite the sun, i hope this is only an issue of me fiddling with the ambient light levels within the engine but we shall see.

Regards Wolfe

New skybox for Combat Demo:








Skybox link: http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=6b62794c6dcb8e5cd2db6fb9a8902bda

Brilliant, i managed to sneak a few from the armada MOD, but yours works much better by far.

Though i did have to downscale the size and qaulity given it wouldn't load otherwise, lag crash

You must have a good comp

Regards Wolfe

now that i have your demo on hard drive i'll draw new sets of backgrounds, 2048 x 2048 size isn't necessary to look good.

Zeleni, if you want something to occupy your time aswell , i technically need a set of backgrounds for my front end menu part of the game.

If you happen to have a copy of supremacy then if you look in:

C:\Supremacy\Resources\Images\Backgrounds

You will see the ones MStrobel uses. If you can manage to make a set of simialr size 1920 x 1200 of varying backgrounds or just one for now i would be grateful.

I would preferably want them somewhat dark in the background based on a blue theme lol at first, similar to the other skybox planet is good aswell.

If you want a title for the demo:

Star Trek Engagement or Star Fleet Engagement was about the only thing me and my brother could come up with which sounded around the ball park, perhaps with 'combat demo' below.

If time is pending don't worry as i do have some backgrounds i can use though they are technically taken from Perpetuals old UI mockups.

Regards Wolfe

No problem, i will pm-u when i get something

New Demo released today

Mainly an overhaul of how you can set up a demo game, with a new graphical user interface.

Some new explosion effects and particle damage have been added.

Around 20 more new ships have been added aswell.

Several bugs fixed

Manual included this time aswell

Currently Vista users will have to wait for an update ASAP to get the game to run correctly I'am afraid.

Download Link: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=70RLCX6J

Remove any previous versions and place Demo folder in C:\

Hopefully uploaded to this site soon

Some Pics

Select the race you wish to fight as...



Select ships from various time periods of star trek lore



Group your ships in specific formations



Destroy the infamous Borg



Enjoy

Regards Wolfe

That looks really really cool!!! Great work!

I like it

Oh gosh, it's beautiful! Unfortunate thing about the Vista incompatibility, though. I'm running Vista!

I'd really like to see this integrated into BOTF2...looks awesome!

If you can come back and check in around 5 days or so i hope to have the Vista version up and running.

Regards Wolfe

Great job Wolfe, looking really good! I shall patiently awate your vista update, take your time. About a month ago I volunteered to create some Cardassian combat voice recordings (on the 2D artist thread and then Voice threatd), and I finally got around to it. Wolfe, you said you were doing the Dominion ones so I just did the Cardassian lines Kenneth_of_Borg laid out for ship combat. If they are still welcome I can upload them, but Wolfe don't know if you are still in need of them/busy working on other aspects of the demo.

.Net 3.5 SP1 (not the 3.5 beta!) is required to use the GUI to set up fleets. Yet I managed to get stuck in Formation menu and felt like closing the application was the only thing left to do . It needs to save last-made options somewhere in a file on hdd in order not to have to set up options each time again you open the game.

btw. we are using bmp's? why not png's?

what's the 11 mb ~WRL3902.tmp file for?

Edit: the combat doesn't start anymore now. All direct3d drivers give me that error message, opengl doesn't, but crashes my whole computer after a few seconds..

I have the beta and it works fine...that's why I can stil use Supremacy at the moment.

with me it didn't work. The deinstallation of all 3.5 beta stuff and installation of the 3.5sp1 redistributable solved the GUI problem but created a new one with the actual combat engine..

btw. weaknesses for cardassians: poor beams?! I thought they were the strongest, only they got next-to-no torpedos..

okay, tried mike's fixed dll and now it works partially. With direct3d 8 and everything disabled in options it works smoothly on game state settings. with gui though it crashes when I zoom out too much. on direct3d 9 with everything enabled, only gamestate works, but all ships are black. on gui with direct3d 9 the game crashes before the engine has loaded itself up after successfully selecting all ships.

With no SharePoint I put a link to the Romulan combat voices here on MediaFire http://www.mediafire.com/?zxzufy9u24q

The Federation http://www.mediafire.com/?1gsh5k4uzge

The Klingon http://www.mediafire.com/?bnuj5k56q0u

Also for the Cardassians, not the combat voices Stegrex did, the combat mix http://www.mediafire.com/?dah0htgnmbf

Also for the Dominion the comparable combat mix http://www.mediafire.com/?ro6xqggwodn

Thanks for the feedback it is really useful.

Luckily i get the same 'Thread' error you posted above with my brothers computer, so i should be able to diagnose a solution. Though working with threads is new to me MStrobel might have a better idea.

I also get the same Black ships problem, though if you download a seperate file you can somewhat cure this and get them back. However the reaon why it crashes is that when you zoom out and look at the 'Sun' model, the engine tries to get the texture and crashes because of some changes made in the Irrlicht.Net dll for the most recent version.

I've been speaking with the Irrlicht team on how to go about fixing this problem so to speak.

Umm with regards to the tmp file, ??? i noticed it when i was archiving the demo and just though 'Oh must be something to do with archiving it' sadly i didn't check to see if it was removed.

I don't think it is used for anything so go ahead and delete it.

It is probably the only thing holding back a working Vista model.

Regards Wolfe

okay. Another thing, are you going to use IrrNet or Raknet or maybe even Mike's netcode for the game? Supremacy should have some usable code since it's also c#-coded using .NET...

Hmm that will probably involve a long discussion with MStrobel on what he knows of gaming over a network etc.

The problem being that both games are differant i beleive in how they will handle transferring of data, i guess with Supremacy all it has to worry about is each player getting the correct updated state after every turn.

While the combat demo needs to constantly send updates every cycle on each players ship positions etc.

Obviously there is an advanateg to using something like Raknet or Irrnet so i'll have to research those aswell.

Regards Wolfe

btw. kenneth, we really need to upgrade models from bmp textures to png or tga ones . The engine has unpacked about 380 mb, mostly stemming from extra-large bmp files .

Norway class has no textures in gui ship selection window on the left-hand side..