I really don't understand why the editor wouldn't load...are you using a shortcut to it? The shortcut may be broken, but that's all I can think of if it isn't the other things I mentioned in my last post. All I can say is to try redownloading the game, then reinstall my updates. If it still doesn't work, it may be a problem with .Net - you could try reinstalling that too. Remember to restart your computer to ensure any fixed files are actually loaded into your system memory.

If it still doesn't work, we'll have to ask Mike.

...

What do you mean about upgrading Orbital Batteries? Each Empire only has one type of Orbital Batteries - there's nothing to upgrade to or from. All you need to do is build each one individually, until you have as many as you want/need. Each one has the same build cost and energy requirements. The more of them you want to use, the more more power you will have to provide for them. I don't see any problems with this, so either I still don't understand you, or i'm blind. (And I do wear glasses )

...

Ok, the sparing use of intel could be seen as an exploit, but unless you produce a massive amount of intel on that single turn, it won't be anywhere near as effective as you seem to be suggesting. As i've said elsewhere, intel strength is accumulative - you build it up per turn. But it can also weaken per turn, if you don't provide the necessary resources or manpower to maintain your existing intel ability. Added to that is the intel strength of a rival empire - whether they are using their intel to chip away at your security or whether you're using your intel to break through their security, a single, massive intel boost that is removed on the next turn won't be anywhere near as effective as a long-term, well-funded intel operation.

We won't know exactly how the intel will work in this situation until the AI is working and the intel system is fully implemented, but I really don't think that an exploit like this will work anywhere near as well as you seem to think it will. We could keep arguing over this until our faces turn blue, but that would be pointless if it means we miss out on testing it. For the time being, I think it would be best to agree that we disagree. We can then point fingers at each other once the system is actually working and we know who was right.

...

Maybe, but is he answering?

Two ways: 1. Have the Obsidian Order have other effects like mitigating intel point decrease (weakening) or reducing system rebellion probabilities as well as intel success modifications and it is "wiser" to let it on all day long. It could also have a 5-turn starting lag period where the benefits are not taking effect, also 5 turns inability period after you disconnected the building from their power source.

2. If you create intel point depots for each race where generated intel points are stored, you can exploit the system the way Iceman described but not if the depot has a saturation curve, i.e. a max velocity with which it can fill up per turn. Then you can't exploit anymore, even the other way round, you are prone to waste IP if assigned 100% of accumulated IPs to a certain depot in 1 turn. The Obsidian Order can then increase vmax continuously where each turn it is online counts, so it's giving you a bonus having it online all the time. The latter is actually a nice idea for the current BotE system. IIRC the depots there do not have a saturation function..

1. The 5 turn lag not only does not make sense, it also goes against the energy requirements aspect of the game. The real problem is precisely how energy requirements were implemented.

2. The saturation curve doesn't make sense with a fixed % bonus. If the description says 20%, but people will only get 5% at a certain point, they'll go WTF. Also, restricting intel is counter-productive, as the game relies precisely on accumulating intel to take actions. If all races top out at intel, then it becomes moot.

1. It takes time until the "machine is running". Nevertheless it consumes energy until it does. Each machine in production everywhere is working that way (a prominent example is the large hadron collider), even your car. Before you can drive away you have to start the motor and that costs energy which is not used to get you any meter forward from your position . Now extend and stretch this on a longer time period.

2. It's not the 20% bonus that gets a saturation. It's the race-specific depot intel point assignment that gets the saturation. It is actually realistic. "Applicable" Intel isn't generated in one turn. Agents need to be trained, fly into a specific system, get acquainted there and gain trust, etc.pp. so there's a difference between applicable intel and general (potential) intel generated by the normal intel production by standard intel buildings.

There's one general depot, where all generated intel points are stored but there are 5 more depots plus the inner security one, the 5 representing each race. Now you can assign points (percentage-wise automatically each turn, much like research; load bote and open intel menu then you see exactly what I mean) from your big general depot into the race specific ones or the inner security ones and the depot there grows (saturated!). That symbolizes the intel agents infiltrating one specific major. Shuffling around is equivalent to drawing depot points back into the general depot (with malus) and reassign it (with saturation!). The realistic counterpart is the difficulty to retrieve agents back out of business once they have attained a higher position inside the former major's society or military and then reassign them to another major. From the applicable race-specific depot, actions can be funded percentage-wise again (not saturated).

1. I'm not going to discuss moronic mechanics (car mechanics) with you.

2. Yes, our realities are different.

moronic? still going down this route of conversation?

I don't know what to do with you. You seem not to be able to refrain from using certain adjectives to describe things and ideas other people talk about. I don't know how the others think of this but this is unacceptable to me. Nonsense like this will be edited out or the complete post removed by me personally if there's no value to the topic's discussion visible next time. Let this be a warning cause I won't edit often.

Btw. the tribunal in botf took also a longer time before it had an effect. Extending this on certain if not all buildings with production percentage bonus would benefit those who have them constantly (or at least as continuous/connected as possible) online.

hm, let's say we follow Iceman's tactic and try to exploit it. He says he would turn it on when he needs it and generate uber-output with 20% bonus on top. hm, where's the uber-output coming from? It can only come from the intel buildings you can build and need to keep upgraded. I would think it's a waste of resources not to have them constantly running but have a large most-of-the-time unused surplus of buildings which are needed to get the uber-output at a specific point (the turn-on point). So in the end, it seems a waste of resources to follow the exploit the way he described (you wouldn't need that many intel buildings otherwise if used more continuously) which lowers the exploit effect if not turning it around, i.e. the problem solves itself.

Having the Inner Security (maybe not only the obsidian order (building) but the whole intel points stored there or all officers working there in the inner security sector) control the system rebellion probability (all systems with less than 80 morale draw internal security officers into those systems that try to infiltrate rebellion leaders and take them out) could be a key feature of the Inner Security making it even more important, even when the enemy has no competitive intel team but good fleets that keep winning hence your morale keeps dropping. Then the Inner Security would be better used to keep your own people under control. One could think of long-term morale effects of doing so but I think that goes a bit too far down the road .

so you know what things are.. (I edited out his last part, you can see it in his profile warning quoted)

as I wrote you, last warning before a ban will be issued (will be discussed internally). Enough is enough. That's not the way things run here. Keep a decent language and don't assume others just want to look smart when discussing with you. They want to get to a point, discuss things freely without hearing excessively and irrespectfully about how you think of their ideas and explanations. Trying to put oneself on a logic throne and directly and indirectly intimidate others to not voice their opinions and proposals is a no-no. This is (mainly) a Star Trek board and we live by the standards of Star Trek so fit and adapt, that's the only advise I can give you at this point. When voicing your opinions, stick to the simple rules of good conversation. Also people here want to improve the game, not their reputation, something I don't see very often in your posts. You seem only to want to make sure everybody gets the message that they'd be less smart than you. Inacceptable.

It (Saturation and/or lag period) will be done with all buildings (outputs and their distribution (like the application of intel points)) that come with a reasonable explanation for doing so. Besides it's not the ten years in this case since the building has tech 5 requirement. Even so, reinstating a full effect for those specially trained intel personnel takes time. The tuition in special ops is a full-time study and having the Obsidian Order build up its "network of trust" (trusted people) in the common intel area of their empire takes time too. The whole intel area is one of the most people-depending and "grey" area in the whole game. A farm is a farm and their output is clear: food. But intel points and application is more diffuse, that's why we could separate this from the other buildings and give them special effects like a lag period for example.

I'm not saying it needs to. It's just a possible way to go. The initial problem can also be solved by the other means I proposed.

What was there going on? I didn't notice anything besides you attacking me. So you don't even feel the need to explain yourself but feel it's appropriate to stick to your uninspired insults and expect people to acknowledge that. Nice.

I won't go down to your level of acting on forums. That remark about me being not serious and trying to openly separate forum users into two categories has just invited you to a internal ban discussion. Before banning someone, we discuss things and in the end do that all together cause we are convinced there's no other way to deal with the problem appropriately. No quick-judging people/things and no dictatorship bans. That's something I guess that differentiates your way of thinking from ours.
Btw. I don't care too what you do with your time as long as you keep painting that ignorant picture of you.

Actually it's a pretty sad show that you're delivering here. But I'm not going to comment much further on this.

My hard drive died on me this morning, so i've lost about a weeks worth of Supremacy updates. Thanks to the forums though I know what has been lost, so it's not a big deal. I'll get working on it once i've finished reinstalling everything. I'll post a reply to the previous messages as soon as I have time to do so. Dafedz has just finished work on the database update i've mentioned previously, so you might want to check it out.

actually it can happen pretty often if there's a systematic error hidden somewhere. For example my last (and only ) hdd died because I had the backside of my computer in direct sunlight contact (rearranged my computer room without checking the angles ). It simply overheated. Sometimes it's also a bad or underdimensioned pc case that has not enough circulation inside. Or a speed fan that ain't working anymore.

My computer has gone through three hard drives in five years. I think that's pretty good going, considering my previous computer went through eight hard drives in six years. As Mal said, the cause of all those hard drive failures (On my old computer) was because the fan was bust. It wasn't until I opened up the case to install drive number eight that I noticed the fan didn't have any blades! Prior to my installing the drive, I had a PC performance agreement with PC World and they fixed it for me. But by drive eight they had changed their fixing policy and asked if I could install the drive myself if they sent me the parts. (It's much faster and cheaper to do it that way) I'd never even seen the inside of a computer before that point, but I said that I could just to save time. Luckily the instructions they sent were brilliant, and i've been selecting that fixing option ever since.

Hard drives are definitely the weakest link in my computer set ups though. I really want an Alienware computer; their best one can come with Terrabyte drives. I'd love to see how long one of those would last me.

I wonder how fast the read/write times are on those drives, though. I'm running two 10,000 RPM WD Raptor drives (150 gb each) in my desktop as I built that from scratch a couple years ago. I've heard that the faster drives are prone to failures, but I've had no problems so far. The funny part is that the second drive isn't even formatted yet, so it's just plugged into my case, drawing power, and it's not even doing anything. I might install Windows 7 on it (I've heard 7 is really sweet from a few people, Mike included).

You should do some research (emphasis on research, as opposed to buying) on . Since there's no moving parts, it may be a bit more durable, depending on what's causing your drives to fail. Plus, the access times are quite faster then normal hard disks, but the capacity is typically lower.

Have we properly derailed the thread yet?

there's a good freeware program called Everest (Home Edition) that gives a lot of information about your computer internals. For example it reads data from your internal hard drive temperature sensors. Mine has 25°C right now, so it's pretty well . After installing the program, go to Computer->Sensors and have a look. Beside the CPU (has 68° right now) nothing should have over 40°C. If so, something's wrong with a fan or in general with air circulation.

It's a good tool to prevent bad surprises like HDD failures. I use it (and SiSoft Sandra, but you won't need it, Everest is good too) since August 2000, that's when I bought my first self-owned computer. Once in a while I check temperatures and fan rpms (should be above 1000 for case and >3000 for CPU depending on the size of your fans; I've got 80x80mm) with it and if there's a rise in temperature (an explicable rise would be fore-going heavy cpu load which increases temperatur naturally) I know I need to open the case and check everything inside. Mostly it's just a cable loosen, or simply thick layers of dust . That way I had only one hard drive failure in all those years .

Azhdeen, yep .

Since when have I ever cared about keeping on thread Azhdeen? If anything, i'm probably the worst offender on the forums.

I've never considered buying a solid state drive. I know they're faster and more reliable, but the capacities are a bit on the pathetic side compared to what you pay at the moment. If I bought one, it wouldn't be until prices came down and the capacities increased. At the rate things are advancing though, I don't think it'll be long before solid state drives take over from hard drives as the standard.

Thanks for that link Mal. I've installed the program, but if i'm reading it right then i've got a problem; the temperature is currently 42*C but it's apparently been as high as 90*C...


Temp.jpg [ 58.56 KiB | Viewed 7365 times ]

yeah I guess. 2003 when I bought my second pc which is still my current pc, I was buying a special pc case (Casetek, I don't remember the exact model but it did cost 79€) that was test winner in a good german pc magazine (c't) and big fans (pabst 80x80, 4 of them) and build the pc up myself with (well-)chosen components. It has paid off since then. Judging from your high temperatures, I'd say the fans are failing from time to time and/or they cannot cope the pc's heat development when it's run under max performance, i.e. most heat development.

My display is a bit different from yours (I use the german everest home version). I've uploaded my state below. Degrees above 90° are certainly a killing factor and if you ask me it's just a matter of time and heavy cpu load until the next drive will say goodbye . I'd consider looking if I could install bigger fans and I'd watch if my harddrives have enough air and room inside the cpu case. If they are stacked tightly it's no wonder when they get hot very quickly. Air circulation is all-important there so a bigger tower (not necessarily a "big tower" like those in the ancient past ) might also be helping.

After my comment on Remus' inhabitability, I see it was changed to a Desert planet. That's nice, but there are some side effects to that. Just observations though. System max pop was decreased (from 220 to 160 - Area of Influence too), which means starting pop was also decreased as they're related (from 98 to 71) - that's a 7 turn set-back in terms of pop/development. Growth rate was also decreased, as well as production in a general way. This is of course only for the HomeSystem, just a heads-up for the slower start of the Romulans.

Can't recall, should the Romulans be able to build the Free Market? Also, it shows Upgrade Options as blank (because they can't build Agricultural Centres? - Federation shows ACs), maybe that line shouldn't be displayed if there's nothing to display.
In the same line of thought, level 1 Shipyards shouldn't also display Obsoleted Items as it's also blank.



Some inconsistencies:


Races.xml vs HomeSystems.xml
----------------------------

Bolians
- Races.xml
Hailing from the ninth planet of the Bolarus system, the Bolians
- HomeSystems.xml
<Planet MinNumberOfPlanets="8" MaxNumberOfPlanets="9" />

Cytherians
- Races.xml
HomePlanetType = Terran
- HomeSystems.xml
doesn't force the existence of a Terran planet

Ornarans
- Races.xml
HomePlanetType = Barren
- HomeSystems.xml
Ornara = Medium Desert (Marginal)

But the description also says it is class M, so keeping it as a desert would contradict that part of the description. If the planet had a less wierd axis, the day side of the planet wouldn't melt and the night side wouldn't...be dark. And then we wouldn't be having this conversation lol.

As i've said before, I can't change the population sizes of the planets. I've asked Mike to add in an additional population density category that would certainly make life easier, but it's up to him to decide whether changing the game code to allow for this is a useful use of his time. And to be honest, I don't think he will see it that way. He hasn't done it yet to my knowledge, at least.

I'll have a look at the Orbital Batteries. There is definitely something wrong there - but if it's what I think it is, it's a bug and not an editor problem. I'll look at the shipyards too.

As i've said before, the stations are a bit of an experiment on my part. I never said the current path was perfect. I'm thinking about removing some of the prerequisites so it is easier to upgrade (Since you wouldn't want to build Outpost I's when you can build Outpost II's for instance as Outpost I's are built from old tech.

I'll ignore the Reman Dilithium mines for the time being.

The population density selection would allow me to solve a number of problems. Firstly, I would be able to make the home systems of the empires larger without changing the planetary makeup of their systems in any way. I would also be able to give minor races that are known to have problems with overcrowding huge maximum population levels, or races that we know have growth problems inhabit systems with low maximum populations. Basically it would allow the empires to grow better and would make the game more canon at the same time.

The State Rations don't hvae an energy cost in Dafedz's database, os I haven't exactly implemented it wrong. The State Rations is more of social provisioning system rather than a specific structure, which is probably why Dafedz hasn't given it an energy requirement. And before you ask, the industrial cost is probably to pay for the admin side of it.

I know about the research icon problem; i've told Mike about it before. With any luck he'll fix it with the next update, but i'll give him another nudge to be sure.