The Romulan lack of energy is technically canon; the Romulans didn't develop true spacefaring technologies themselves because they couldn't figure out efficient power generation methods. That's why they were still relying on impulse-powered ships when Kirk first met them. They actually acquired Warp technology and Warp-capable ship designs from the Klingons, but once they had those they started developing the tech in a very different way to the rest of the galaxy, eventually turning to quantum singularities instead of Dilithium-regulated matter/antimatter explosions.

...Of course, Enterprise probably messed things up a bit there. I can't remember exactly what techs the Romulans had in Enterprise other than an android controlled stealth ship, but they probably gave the Romulans Warp. Tut.

The lack of energy strctures is simply to reflect this early problem the Romulans had. I suppose we could give them a mid/late energy-producing structure to offset this, eg. Quantum Singularity Plant.

The Dominion don't have access to these structures because the Dominion need *some* disadvantages afterall, and I believe they acquired their early tech by copying the technology of the solids. Plus their homesystem has little use of those structures.

...

Removing the RDM restrictions is definitely an idea to balance it out better. I'll mention it to Dafedz tomorrow. Not now though, it is 3am afterall.

...

The multiplier *would* have a crazy setting (If I get my way) but this would be restricted to a very few race, eg. the B'Omar and Borg. I would set it so there were five different settings; the first and last densities would be rare, the empires would have the last-but-one setting and most races would be mid-range. I wouldn't expect this to have any impact on the sphere of influence though.

...

The Food facilities don't require power. Hehe free food!

...

I like that idea. It was like that in BOTF actually, although it's possible Mike already has plans to implement it. The diplomacy is very much a work-in-progress afterall. Fingers crossed it'll be in.

I can't do any updates until Tuesday - my graphics card has died on me and I don't wanna risk loading my computer up til the replacement arrives. (I'm writing this on my sisters laptop but she wants it back... )

The ship naming problem is going to be fixed in the update-after-next; Mike is going to add some new options in the editor that will allow me to name the ships how I want them in the next update. I'll update all the ship names once I have access to that update, so the name update will be released in the update-after-next.

That machine of yours is jynxed

---


About ship names, maybe adding some form of abbreviation of the ship's type before the class would help?
eg, COL Conestoga Class, CON Berlin Class, CRU Enterprise Class, etc.

About the moons issue, it only makes larger systems even larger, and smaller systems don't really benefit all that much. Smaller systems have lower pops, so they take longer to build the habitation modules, and they generally have less moons, so they get a lower increase in pop. They'll probably have less energy available too (if they're made to take energy). Larger systems benefit a lot more from this, for the same cost, which is exorbitant for what it does, taking 25~40 turns to build.
One aspect that hasn't probably been considered yet: what happens when you sabotage the habitation modules? Pop will die, but *which* pop? If it's pop allocated to farms or power plants, that's additional problems.

Type 1 University is producing 12000 research (instead of 12). Probably a leftover from testing. Just a heads-up for the next release.

I read somewhere that systems would always get at least one colonisable planet. I got a system with absolutely no planets, asteroids, nothing: Max Pop 0, Growth 0%. Also got some with asteroids, and/or gas giants only. Nothing against it, just checking if it's intended.

The +X% Industry bonus [Ministry of Justice (Rakhar), Replicator Plants, etc.] only applies to production from structures, not to pop-related base industry. Just an observation, as it is kind of misleading (because of the base industry from population that was introduced in Supremacy).

+x% Growth Rate structures: they seem too expensive for their benefits (a % on the %, something like ~+0.2 or 0.3%). Most of them don't have an energy cost, and/or have another bonus, but look at Ice Breaking Stations. True you can toggle it off once the planet reaches max pop, but that's yet another reason to make this structure odd. Even with a future possible use due to a pop decrease event.

None of the minors' special structures have any tech requirements (except the shipyards), so they can be built as soon as they join your empire. Granted they usually have a high cost, but still, it's inconsistent. In fact, I think it's the other way around, it's most of the empires' structures that are only unlocked by research to kind of make the research matrix more important (the Reman Dilithium Mines issue, which also applies to say the Starfleet Academy and equivalent structures for the other empires - where do your Officers graduate from?!). There are even descriptions of minors / first contact messages that tell you that they have this and that, and in fact they have the tech, but they have to actually build the structure...

The defense structures of minors don't show in the Encyclopedia, except for their Orbital Batteries.
Also, doesn't make sense that their Orbital Batteries are available to *all* the minors, even those that get none of the defensive structures (because of tech level limitations).

The Research Complete screen displays Orbital Batteries twice, when you get to the point of being able to build them (level 3). They also show twice in the Build List display (for both your native systems and for minors' systems that have joined), one with Obsoleted Items = Orbital Batteries, the other without. The Descriptions are also slightly different, the difference being the word Phaser in the former. One is the empire's (in the case the Federation), the other is the minors'.

If in a minor's system that joined your empire you build their Orbital Batteries first, you still get to build your empire's OBs, so you can have both built. If you build yours first though, theirs are not available for building.

When a minor joins your empire, that system gets both the Basic Shipyard (if not built yet) and the empire's level 1 shipyard as building options. Only one should show. [incidentally, the Basic Shipyard is better than any empire's level 1 shipyard, which is a bit of an oddity]

In a minor system that joins your empire, if you build the Molecular Shield, you can still build the Planetary Shield (doesn't obsolete it). You can have the Molecular, Positron, Gravitron, Advanced Gravitron,and Planetary shields, all activated at the same time. [again, most Shields of minors are better than the standard Planetary Shields, some much better, which is even odder]

The Combat Grid (minors) should get the OpS restriction, or you can build as many as you want (in case the default OpS is fixed).
The Tachyon Defense Grid (minors) doesn't have any Prerequisites, or Restrictions. Should also get OpS and HS.
[again, minors seem to benefit more from defensive strucutres than the empires, they have more of them, which are not upgrades]

Molecular Shield, Resistance Network, Basic Shelters, Civilian Reserve (Coridan), Isolinear Scanner: Upgrade Options blank.
Positron Shield, Gravitron Shield: both Upgrade Options and Obsoleted Items blank.
Advanced Gravitron Shield: Obsoleted Items blank.

Global Defense Net should probably give an Anti-Ship Defense (-> Defence) bonus, and not a +% Anti-Ship Defense - if there isn't already an ASDef value, GDN does nothing, and its description sounds silly (and misleading).

Bunker Network (OpS, Home System) upgrades to Resistance Network (OpS, Non-Native System)... inconsistent.
Also, Bunker Network doesn't have the OpE restriction.
Should the minors' defensive structures obsolete this one? Same applies to other stuff.

Surplus Depot has an energy requirement. What happens to mothballed ships when it is toggled off? Seems like one of those structures that you'll only power up when you want to scrap ships (besides the mothballing, if it's actually useful).

Some structures are set to not be universal, but they're not in any empire's techtree: Aquaculture Centre, Commerce Centre, Commercial Exchange, Commercial Hub, Subspace Jammer.
(The Aquaculture Centre could actually help the Romulans at game start)

Low-Grav Resort (Elaysians)
The Non-Native System restriction is not really necessary.

Card Obsidian Order
Is still missing the One Per Empire restriction.

Aquasphere
The description mentions a Biotech research bonus; Statistics says +100 Research (global) though.

Starfleet Intelligence
Doesn't have the One Per Empire restriction. For consistency only.

Starfleet Academy
It's a OpS and OpE facility, shouldn't it also have the Home System restriction?

Fed Gravitic Sensor Array
Doesn't have the One Per Empire restriction. For consistency only.

Fed Global Defense Net
No restrictions whatsoever. Should probably have OpS (in case the default OpS is fixed).

ASDB Complex
The Dilithium restriction is a bit redundant because Sol has the Dilithium bonus by default. Even if it were made not to have, then the facility wouldn't make sense.
Same thing for the Dilithium Cracking Station of the Coridans (BTW, its description text sounds more like a first contact text than the description of a facility of a race which *already* is allied with you...)

Asteroid Sweeper
It kind of overlaps with the Federation's Mining Corps/Geosurvey/Harvesting line of techs (for the Federation only of course, since it's universal).

Trade Centre upgrades to Trade Hub, but Trade Hub does not obsolete Trade Centre. They shouldn't be cumulative.
Trade Centre doesn't have any restrictions (which makes Trade Hub not have too), should probably have OpS (in case the default OpS is fixed). Same happens with the Fed Replicator Plants.

The Cardassian Relocation Program has energy cost 200, and restriction NonNativeSystem, while the Romulan and Federation equivalents have zero and Moons respectively. The Klingons and Dominion don't have these?

The Cardassian Union Broadcast Network doesn't have any Restrictions. Besides the OpS default that is, but if that is fixed, it isn't restricted in number. Since it grants +1 morale empire wide, even the OpS might be a bit much.

The Klingon Mark 1 and Mark 2 Replicators don't have an upgrade/obsoletion link. They also have no restrictions. They're worthless because of the Basic Food Processor, which is supposed to not have any restriction, and is much cheaper and consumes much less energy.

The Klingon Apothecaries doesn't have any restrictions.

Rom Imperial Mining Program doesn't require the system to have Raw Materials. It also has no other requirements.

The Romulan, Klingon and Federation Fleetyards don't require a Native system, the Cardassian and Dominion do. The Romulan one doesn't have a Shipbuilding bonus. Is that intended?
The Utopia Planitia shipyard doesn't have the One Per Empire restriction.

The Data Imaging tech unlocks the Daystrom Institute structure, the description of which says Daystrom was awarded prizes for his studies in Duotronics. It just so happens that the Duotronics tech comes right *after* Data Imaging in the Computers line of research...

TechTrees.xml
The Axanar, Coridans, Kazon and Tellarites shouldn't have the Basic/Medium/Advanced Shipyards, since their special shipyards are supposed to obsolete them.
The Alsaurians have shipyards but have no ship designs.
The Brekkians have one ship design but no shipyards.

TechObjectDatabase.xml / TechTrees.xml
For easier reference:
HYDROPONICS_DOME CARD_HYDROPONICS_DOME
FREE_MARKET FED_FREE_MARKET
PRIVATE_FARMS FED_PRIVATE_FARMS
HOLOCENTRE FED_HOLOCENTRE
AGRICULTURAL_CENTRES FED_AGRICULTURAL_CENTRES



Ships:

All ships should require at least Propulsion 1, which is the Warp Drive (probably Construction and Weapons 1 too, while at it). The Outpost I should also probably require Construction and Weapons 1.

Federation New York Class
Upgrade Options reads Berlin Class (which is the predecessor, Obsoleted Item).

Dominion Battle Cruiser III
Has Range = 0.

A bunch of Cardassian ships have no Dilithium cost.

All Cardassian colony ships have no Work Capacity set, that's why they can't colonise. The Federation Colony Ship III has the same problem. It's easy enough to fix (TechObjectDatabase.xml).

I was under the impression that you said that Federation colonies were supposed to be the best, but the Work Capacity of their colony ships is actually the worst (25 vs 50 for everyone else in Colony Ship I, 50 vs 100/150 in Colony Ship II). That means the colonies start with not only half the pop of others, but also half the initial structures (as they're related).

The Romulan Transport Ship II has Work Capacity = 50 (same as the I), it should probably be 100 like every other empire (the III has 150).

The Colony Ship II for the Klingons and Dominion (they don't have the III) have the same Build Cost (approx.), Raw Materials and Crew as regular IIs, even though they have the Work Capacity of IIIs (and are armed). Maybe an intermediate value?

The Federation Colony Ship I has a value for Population Health, no other colony ship in the game does. Intended?

The Romulan Colony Ship III is a bit on the cheap side, when compared to the others.

Acamarian Raider I: are the Scan Power and Sensor Range values switched?

Angosian Transport: no Crew.

Bilanaian Destroyer: no Tech preReqs, Type = Colony.

Boslic Transport II: no Dilithium cost.

Breen Battlecruiser III: ClassName = Breen Corasta Class Corasta.

Brekkian Transport: no Tech preReqs.

Bynar Cruiser: Type = Colony.

Caldonian Explorer: Type = Colony.

Denobulan Frigate: Range = 0, no Maneuverability value.

Dosi Cruiser: no Tech preReqs.



Minors:

Acamarians
They're described as "With the military infrastructure that they have, they are more than capable of defending their homeworld.", and they're considered Developed, but their techtree only includes the Civilian Reserve and Resistance Cells defensive techs (plus the Orbital Batteries).

Algolians
Should the Algolians be Backward techwise, with the minor structures they get (compared to other minors) and the gift for intellectual capacity they're described as having?

Cytherans
They're supposed to be made of pure energy, but they can build all of the defensive structures for minors (probably because of the Supreme tech rating).


HomeSystems.xml:

Arbazan
Arbaza I should be called Arbaza, according to the race's description.

B'Omar
Their homeworld: Bomar B'Omar

Ba'ku
Their homeworld: Ba'Ku Ba'ku

Elaysians
Elaya III should be called Elaya, according to the race's and Low-Grav Resort descriptions.

Ferengi
Races.xml, is their homeworld really supposed to be the Oceanic planet, or should it be the Jungle planet instead? The system has both set as mandatory.

Yaderans
Swap homesystem (Yadera Prime) and homeworld (Yadera) names.

Races whose Inhabitants are set as Humans:
Baneans, Malcorians, Mintakans, Pakled

Races that don't force the class of the homeworld:
Bothans, Coridans, Dosi, Sheliak (system has no planets AT ALL)

Star system name and type not defined:
Tilonians

Unnecessary <Planet /> tags (probably leftovers from editing):
Zibalians, Ventaxians, Ullians, Tilonians, Tanugans, Talosians, Takarans, Sikarians, Rutians, Ramatians, Wadi, Trill, Tholians, Tellarites, Son'a

You have great analitic skills Iceman

Hehe, I'm *very* thorough. Not done yet too.

(Klingon) Forced Labour Foundry
Could build it on the homeworld of a minor that joined my empire, even though it is a Conquered System structure.

(Klingon) Forced Labour Farms
Should also have the Conquered System restriction, like the Foundry?

(Klingon) Great Hall
Doesn't have the OpE restriction.

(Klingon) Dilithium Gulag
The description text was copied from the Mining Prison, refers to itself as Mining Prison. (labor labour) Also, it says mining Dilithium, but the structure actually requires and produces both Dilithium and Raw Materials.

(Klingon) War Room
Is it supposed to only have the OpS restriction?

I colonized a system with max pop 30, with a Colony Ship I (Work Capacity 50). Only 30 pop were created in the system of course, but the number of structures was capped by that number of colonists (2/4/1/1/1) instead of by the original 50 (3/6/2/2/2). Doesn't make much sense.

Regarding Colony Ships II and III, a lot of systems can't take 150 pop (or 100); so I'm wondering about the usefulness of these ships. Since upgrades are automatic, this is bad. Also, I'm not sure these are really needed, as when you get them, the colonization phase of the game should be over already.
Systems that can take these pop levels, though, will be practically fully built upon colonization, which is very bad.

+% BioTech research bonuses (for example), they only work when researching BioTech. When researching other areas, they're worthless. But if the structures are built and powered, how can they produce zero research?! The %s issue, again. They should provide an additive bonus, not a %.

I think the food calculation of a system that has a negative food balance (with positive stock food), the turn it finished upgrading its base food generation structures, is wrong. Maybe it has to do with the fact that joined minors systems seem to process their turns twice in a single turn though, not sure.

Took a Klingon Construction Ship I (Range 5, Fuel 5) 5 sectors out of its Refueling Range, and built an Outpost I 10 hexes from my homeworld. That's odd, especially with the ship being Stranded. Of course, with the Outpost built... that's the Range+Fuel dual system at work in all its glory

Civilian vs military production
Because of the base industry provided by pop, the factor of 10 applied to military production relative to civilian production [I read somewhere a post from Mike saying this was for testing purposes, but that was an old post], and the relatively low cost of ships, removing pop from factories doesn't have much of an impact on ship construction. It's detracting IMO.

Costs in the game are all wrong.
Outpost I costs 1000, 20 turns to build by a Construction Ship I (Work Capacity 50)
Level 1 ships costs ~1000, ~3 turns
Level 1 Shipyards costs 100, 1 turn
Level 1 Farm costs 60, 1 turn
Level 1 Factory costs 110, 1 turn
Solar Panel Array costs 650, 5~6 turns
Level 2 Farm costs 165, almost triple the Level 1, for a marginal gain
Level 2 Factory costs 370, same thing
Level 2 Shipyards costs 2100, 21x more...
...


Upgrade costs don't make much sense. You pay half the new structure (new level) cost, not the structure's cost, or the difference in costs. So there's no point in those structures having that cost. They should cost only half, and you'd pay the full cost (that half) - since you can never build a level 2 structure (for example) from scratch, due to the (weird) way upgrading works.

One other odd thing about the upgrade system, is that each of the game's entities (Structures, Ships, Stations) has a different upgrade scheme. Looks a bit "disorganized".

Structures don't cost credits to build, but they return 25% of their cost in credits when scrapped. That's a huge exploit.

Yes, Mike does plan to add Trade goods or some other such item as the default contruction item when no orders have been given. I discussed this with him a month or three ago, so he definitely knows about it.

Kazon, Coridan, Tellarites shipyards don't obsolete Utopia Planitia (Axanar does).

Aqua-Dredge is also set to not be universal, but it's not in any empire's techtree.

Shouldn't the Dilithium Refinery have some tech requirements (Wind Turbines and Charge Collectors do, for example, Construction 1)? Doesn't have any effect now, just in case the starting tech level is changed for some reason.

After the Subspace Scanner, the Cardassians can get 2 Listening Posts, their own and the universal ones (no obsoletion).

The Card Covert Sensor Array requires tech level 6, while its predecessor, the Card Isolinear Scanner requires 8...
Also, not sure, but judging by the Dom Anti-Proton Array, shouldn't it also get some form of Anti-Cloak detection? Just asking, simply by comparing.

None of the scanners have the OpS restriction (besides the default).

The Thermal Tether's energy output is 30? With those tech requirements and cost?
Comparing with upgraded structures like the Advanced Turbines and Advanced Solar Array.

The Native System restriction in the Klingon Bunker Stations is redundant.

Communications Grid grants bribe resistance to non-native systems. Do native systems have a special resistance to bribes?

Is the Bunker Network supposed to be Home System only?

Planetary Shield doesn't have the OpS restriction.

The %GrowthRate structures give the bonus to the global growth rate, not to the specific planet's (the restriction-related planet).

Subspace Jammer doesn't have any restrictions.

Shipyards (level 1) should get the OpS restriction. They should obsolete the minors shipyards too (Romulan already does).

Utopia Planitia obsoletes the Mk II shipyards. Also, it should get the OpE restriction.

Is it intended that level 2 shipyards can only build ships up to tech level 6 (except Romulan and Minor, level 8)? Because level 3 shipyards are only available at tech level 9. Tech level 7 ships will be obsolete by then...

The Klingon level 3 shipyard doesn't obsolete the level 2.

Level 4 Fleetyards obsolete the level 3.

Minor Advanced Shipyard is available at tech level 8 instead of 9.

Horta Ore Extraction Plant
Grants Dilithium but the system does not have the special.

Lissepian Commercial Hub
Grants Raw Materials but the system has Dilithium, not Raw Materials.

Mintakan Education Centre
Has Maintenance Cost but no Energy Cost. Swapped?



TechTrees.xml

There are 2 techtree definitions for the Rak(h)osans:

- <TechTree Civilization="RAKHOSANS">
<ProductionFacilities />
- <Buildings>
<Building>RAKOSAN_SECURITY_BUREAU</Building>
<Building>RAKOSAN_SURVEILLANCE_SYSTEM</Building>

- <TechTree Civilization="RAKOSANS">
<ProductionFacilities />
- <Buildings>
<Building>RAKOSAN_SECURITY_BUREAU</Building>
<Building>RAKOSAN_SURVEILLANCE_SYSTEM</Building>
<Building>MINOR_ADVANCED_GRAVITRON_SHIELD</Building>
<Building>MINOR_AIR_COMMAND_HQ</Building>
<Building>MINOR_BASIC_SHELTERS</Building>
<Building>MINOR_CIVILIAN_RESERVE</Building>
<Building>MINOR_RACE_COMBAT_GRID</Building>
<Building>MINOR_FIGHTER_SQUADRONS</Building>
<Building>MINOR_GRAVITRON_SHIELD</Building>
<Building>MINOR_HARDENED_BUNKERS</Building>
<Building>MINOR_HEAVY_BUNKERS</Building>
<Building>MINOR_MISSILE_SILO</Building>
<Building>MINOR_MOLECULAR_SHIELD</Building>
<Building>MINOR_POSITRON_SHIELD</Building>
<Building>MINOR_RACE_TACHYON_DEFENSE_GRID</Building>
<Building>MINOR_RESISTANCE_CELLS</Building>

You do realise the *scale* you're talking, right? 1 Credit per build point per turn? Can you project what kind of income you're talking? Also, don't forget that *pop* generates Credits per turn too (and Morale affects it too IIRC), so there you have another doubling effect of sorts. That's a huge income.
Also notice that there is an exploit regardless, because you can always scrap structures already built (that you don't use), and gain credits for it. Useless minors' structures for example, that they built.

As for the Romulans, their ships could just cost a lot more Deuterium and/or Raw Materials, which would make them different from other races. Not saying I would want that, just offering other possibilities.

I'm kinda lazy and don't feel like formatting quotes.

Point A: Romulan ships don't really need to be faster. They cloak, among other things. The Feds focus their ship designs to shields and propulsion and sensors. The Klingons focus on weapons, weapons, and maybe a little bit into weapons. See how this goes? What needs to happen is that the ships themselves, when compared to their counterparts of the other races, are balanced and that the costs are similar. Removing the dilitium requirement would make it much more difficult to balance the costs of Romulan ships. How much is one dilithium worth when compared to raw materials, officers, and industry cost? What should Romulans do with the dilithium that they do mine in the game?

Keep it simple: require Romulan ships to be built with a dilithium cost like every other ship. Again, just because there is a cost of dilithium to build the ship does not mean that the dilithium is in the ship. If it makes you sleep better at night, you can write a blurb about how dilithium is required in order to initialize the singularity process at the shipyard or somesuch. *shrugs* It's science fiction; make something up, because I'm relatively certain there's no canon-official process on how they are generated.

Point B: Upgrading your buildings will always be beneficial. I still don't understand how scrapping buildings for credits is an exploit. It makes sense that you would receive a return on the resources used to build something. The time you spent building the structure is more valuable then the credits you'll receive from scrapping it. Also keep in mind that the Trade Goods build order doesn't exist yet, so there will still need to be some rebalancing done.

That may be so, but i've been on the forums rather longe rthan you .Iceman - no one else to my knowledge has even mentioned the potential for it be an exploit, let alone properly discussed it. Ok, you can argue that maybe that's simply because people haven't thought about it before, but there's also the counter argument that you really are the only person who thinks that it is...not that i'm trying to insult you or anything by saying that. It's just a possibility, that's all.

Anyways, if an expansionist race was to concentrate on research, then they would gain access to better ships and structures - which would allow them to expand faster. It's a case of short-term loss for long-term gain. And that's precisely what the empires - and the players - will be doing anyways. I don't see this as a problem. Ok, some people may decide to expand straight away while others concentrate on research. Personally i'd go for research, but everyone is different. There's no one strategy that will work every time; that's the beauty of a game like Supremacy, no matter how well you plan something, there's still always the possibility that you could be beaten. And that's what makes it fun as well.

how about colonies cost pop to found (the turn they are founded, those subtracted pop then slowly "reaches" the target colony and helps building it up, if suppression or blockade happens, the subtracted pop will return to the systems they came from minus losses by enemy interceptor fleets) rather than the colony ships whose function restrains to laying out the flight routes for the colonists and building up supply lines and stations for the whole process of colonization plus of course do the initial terraforming.
With that you also avoid (morale) problems of losing a colony ship by a neutron star, a random event or enemies. Colonies still can be suppressed (the higher the suppression level, the higher the morale costs if you decide not to abandon the colony which should be an option for just-created colonies) in development and pop growth by raiding the colony's sector or setting up a blockade (if not wipe it out in the first place but if you just got destroyers, the other tactic should apply better).

That also adds a strategic dimension as to keep the distance short and colonize from "core" systems, i.e. systems which are located next to owned pop-rich star systems. A race-specific distance function determines pop drain from other systems which also depends on their current per-turn growth and max pop current pop ratio (the race-specific majority of people are more inclined to "hop into" the system next door/sector than to borderline systems at the far-off outer areas which are more insecure and less protected). Quick-colonization of a larger closely-connected area of star systems within a few sectors without an equivalent amount of heavy pop-supplying systems in close distance then thins out pop supply and leads to slow pop growth on those systems. Additionally there could be an option to fill up a special colony ship class (a separate type of colony ship which costs a lot more plus instant population from the system it was built) with pop at construction which could also be labelled "expeditionary colony ship". It should cost that much that it only potentially pays off if you want to undergo some risks and chances that you might find a worthy minor there or get a quick supply bridge to invade an otherwise too-far major that way.

Besides, early expansion also inherits the danger of being pinned down or declared war upon (morale effects to the Federation) by an hostile enemy race or more-so a minor like the Sheliak who then raid and plunder your defenseless small colonies. Chances of meeting such a race are higher the wilder you expand.

As for the credits and upgrade issue, well there's a reason why trade goods in BotE are next-to-negligible in their output effect and multiple builds within a turn haven't been implemented. When producing trade goods or consumer goods there are options to limit the output via saturation or even worse via habituation. Those trade and consumer goods have buyers. Those buyers plan with them. Changing the build queue and thus the order in which those goods are produced (namely then when you think you need those to do your possible exploit tactic) each turn should effectively make them produce less usable credits in the end. Much like the tribunal issue where you need lag time to get the thing started. It's not like people buy cars just because there's some over-production. They buy it cause you lower the price because of the surplus which then leads to less income=credits, welcome to the saturation effect. This can all be balanced in due time.

Checked your lastest update last night MoE, and a few observations. You didn't fix the ships as I reported in my huge post last monday IIRC, nor the remaining minors that still are set as humans, etc - maybe you didn't read that post? Just checking. The Cardassian colony ships problem should really be fixed before the next release, and it's a really simple thing to fix (just setting Work Capacity). There's lot of smallish fixed there, but important ones.

Your changes to the pop cap of planets, hmmm, you simply added 10 to each planet, 20 to giants. That change didn't follow the "spirit" of the caps, you've just made a Tiny Hostile _triple_ in max pop... IMO you should have used a multiplicative factor, not additive. It's not easy though, and there was actually a reason for those (default) values.

About shipyards, I haven't quite figured out why Fleetyards have a Shipbuilding bonus, instead of being integrated into the Efficiency of the yard. Besides the fact that they'd be >100% that is, but that is purely a display issue (which results in production over 100% anyway), and there would be no need for the bonus if the other shipyards would have thei Efficiency lowered. One less bonus, more efficient, more streamlined.

Also, is it intended that the Card shipyard III has energy cst 75 (instead of 100) *and* 6 slots (instead of 4, effectively having as many as the respective fleetyard)?

Minors shipyards are still better than Fed and Rom ones (and potentilly better than others, especially Klin). Level III is even available sooner. They can't build tech 12 ships though.

Klin shipyards are strange. They have energy problems with the I (but good efficiency), a regular II, and efficiency problems with the III (but regular energy). It might be to simulate canon, but the energy thing should be regulated externally, since the game uses energy structures.

---

Regarding a few earlier debates:

- Orbital Batteries can be buil by *all* minors, regardless of tech curve: why do minors have more defensive structures (2xGdCbt, 3xGdDef) than empires? Why aren't these aggregated into 1 GdCbt and 1 GdDef, and the OB is set to not be universal, and added to each minor explicitly? It'd even reduce the size of the database, which is desired. Pretty mcu the same could be said about %ASDef structures.

- Romulan ships: maybe they could use up double Deuterium when cloaked? Regardless if they take Dil to build or not, heh.

- Slow colonization: Let's not forget that Fed colony ships are _slooow_ , and like I mentioned previously, any colony ship II and III will most likely be useless for colonization, as when you get them the galaxy should pretty much be colonized. Maybe the Delta Quadrant can have some uninhabited systems, but that's a huge maybe IMO. (random galaxy map please? )

- Minors tech curves: If I annex a Backwards minor into my empire, they'll all of a sudden start researching like crazy if I put them in a lab! Insta-geniuses, doesn't make much sense.