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The Borg :)
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The Borg :)
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Crewman  Joined: 12 May 2009, 19:55 Posts: 12 
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Hey folks, new to the site and game but having played the alpha last night- really excited.
To the topic... First let me say that being able to play as the Borg is probably a bad idea. Unlike Armada1/2 I think they really could be balanced with few, powerful ships, but I don't think it's worth the effort. The Borg are larger than any other power in our galaxy. They're a force of nature; a danger to everyone. They're in a league of their own and should be treated as such. However, for that very same reason they can be used as an excellent mechanic. There are three things that we've seen drive the Borg, in order of most pressing to least: 1. Self-preservation - they'll attack you if you attack them first, and they dropped everything to fight 8472 2. New technology distinctiveness 3. New biological distinctiveness 4. The need for more drones/resources (not actually seen but can be surmised) Realistically two cubes could have conquered Earth at any time, considering how hard it's been to defeat one. So why didn't they send two? If they're so much more advanced than all the other races around their space, why haven't those races been assimilated? From what I can tell the Borg have had the resources to conquer the entire galaxy for some time, and yet they don't. In answering the question of "why" there are some elements that might be fun to see in their AI. So some of my ideas. - They'll first be attracted to the most technologically advanced player race, but not exclusively - They'll be attracted to minor race systems for their unique technology and biology - They'll be attracted to systems with unique empire buildings (Daystrom, Starfleet HQ, etc.) - The more you fight them off successfully, the greater threat you'll be perceived as and the more they'll attack out of self-preservation - The more they're fought off in general, the more they'll attack in general to resupply their resources This would create an interesting paradigm and potentially introduce a handicap. The more you're attacked by them, the more of your distinctiveness they assimilate, the less they care about you. If you make another technological breakthrough, expect to be paid another visit. Have the Borg suffered defeat at the hands of another race? Your colonies might be drone-fodder. Do you defend those colonies? It might make the Borg perceive you as a greater threat and come knocking on your door more often. "So what if all the races just let their technology and biology be assimilated and don't fight back? Wouldn't that eliminate the Borg threat?" Enter Species 8472. Have an event in which 8472 swoops in and kicks a little Borg butt, forcing them to resupply. The harder they're hit, the harder they'll hit the player races. Plus would you let them assimilate your people, lowering morale, and forcing you to rebuild the planet? The choice is yours. |
| 12 May 2009, 20:52 |
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Communications Officer   Joined: 21 Aug 2008, 16:59 Posts: 717 Location: On this multiverse: EU
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Hi Rikaelus, welcome to the forums!!!
 Rikaelus wrote: The more you're attacked by them, the more of your distinctiveness they assimilate, the less they care about you.  http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Dark_Frontier#Act_Nine Rikaelus wrote: "So what if all the races just let their technology and biology be assimilated and don't fight back? _________________ "Never give up. Never surrender." -- Kenneth_of_Borg "Seize the time, Meribor. Live now; make now always the most precious time. Now will never come again" -- Picard (The Inner Light)  |
| 12 May 2009, 21:18 |
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Crewman Joined: 12 May 2009, 19:55 Posts: 12
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captain_picard wrote: Hi Rikaelus, welcome to the forums!!! Rikaelus wrote: The more you're attacked by them, the more of your distinctiveness they assimilate, the less they care about you. http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Dark_Frontier#Act_Nine Yup, because humans have successfully opposed the Borg on a number of occasions, and Janeway in particular. My proposed AI behaviors take that into account.  I'd argue that if the Borg had successfully assimilated Earth and the Federation were unable to fend them off as it has, the Queen wouldn't have that interest and surviving humans would be left pretty much alone. |
| 12 May 2009, 21:23 |
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Communications Officer Joined: 21 Aug 2008, 16:59 Posts: 717 Location: On this multiverse: EU
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Hmm, on the same episode, during the assimilation of Species 10026, 4 people managed to escape (with Seven's help
 ) but the Queen was so determined to completely assimilate everyone as "... if so much as one escapes, then the species itself remains unassimilated. " _________________ "Never give up. Never surrender." -- Kenneth_of_Borg "Seize the time, Meribor. Live now; make now always the most precious time. Now will never come again" -- Picard (The Inner Light) |
| 12 May 2009, 21:35 |
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Crewman Joined: 12 May 2009, 19:55 Posts: 12
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captain_picard wrote: Hmm, on the same episode, during the assimilation of Species 10026, 4 people managed to escape (with Seven's help ) but the Queen was so determined to completely assimilate everyone as "... if so much as one escapes, then the species itself remains unassimilated. " Hmm, interesting point. I'd chalk that up to a lore inconsistency, though. Obviously they want to assimilate humans and the Federation, but countless times their ships have been boarded and the away teams left completely alone until they prove themselves a threat. They'd be easy pickings if the Borg were out to assimilate everyone and everything. Heck, even while the Borg were taking over the Enterprise-E, they left armed crew members alone once they had obtained sufficient drones. Only when Data tried to open the door and their intent was seen as hostile, were they attacked. I suppose the 10,000 foot view is that the Borg are patient. They don't assimilate everything they can, so there must be specific reasons for when they do. An AI that has them be blindly offensive with only assimilation on their collective mind, I think would do the Borg a disservice and make them rather shallow. |
| 12 May 2009, 22:39 |
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Evil Romulan Overlord of Evil - Now 100% Faster!   Joined: 02 Dec 2004, 01:00 Posts: 7392 Location: Returned to the previous place.
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Hey Rikaelus, welcome to the forums!
 I'm the guy that is implementing the game database (Races, buildings, ships, etc) and I personally have no intention of making the Borg playable - unless people want me to, of course. But I would just remove that possibility in my own game if that happened. Conversely though, since the game is moddable, even if the option wasn't available in the standard game, people would easily be able to mod their own games to make it possible, so you don' really need to worry about this - people will have the best of both worlds, one way or another. Of course, you will need to have the exact same files as the other person(s) if you wish to do multiplayer... Rikaelus wrote: If they're so much more advanced than all the other races around their space, why haven't those races been assimilated? From what I can tell the Borg have had the resources to conquer the entire galaxy for some time, and yet they don't. As for your points on how the Borg are governed, I don't know if you know about our random events or not. Basically, i've spent the last four years (Much less so in the last two years though) writing out a Massive List of potential random events for the game. Since we don't know how the randoms will be implemented - there's talk of Mike, the developer, creating a random events editor but it remains to be seen if such a thing is actually made and how flexible it will be - it's highly unlikely the entire list will make it into the game exactly as i've written. Here's what i've written for the Borg: The Random Events The Random Events wrote: The Borg They assimilate systems, initially invading with small scout ships and moving up to Spheres, Cubes and Tactical Cubes. The only way to completely destroy them is to wipe out their systems. When the Borg appear, you will gain a new option in Diplomacy to set up an Anti-Borg Alliance with the other powers. The chances of this random event occurring increases the longer a game is played, and the higher your tech level is. The Borg will always attack the strongest players first; including the AI. Once the most powerful Empire is assimilated, the Borg will then move onto the second most powerful Empire, and so on. They will be a much bigger threat than in BOTF. It seems that we have come to a dark time in our great Federation. At 0800 hours this morning, a fleet in sector _____ engaged a species calling itself the Borg. This species is not interested in money, politics, or diplomacy. Their only objective is the assimilation of all life, and the destruction of our culture. They seek both our worlds and our people, and will stop at nothing to obtain them. Diplomacy is impossible; they see it as "irrelevant". The time for peace is over. We must combat this grave threat with everything we have for our very survival. For the first time in its history, our great Federation faces the threat of an enemy that may be unbeatable. If Starfleet fails, there is no hope of survival. It will be the end of peace, the end of the dream that is the Federation. Like Kahless fought the tyrant Molor, we are now faced with fighting a great evil for our own survival; this time, it is for the survival of our very race. Our Battlecruisers in sector _____ have engaged a powerful new enemy called the Borg. They care not for honor or glory, only for the taking of our bodies and our Empire. Sharpen your bat'leths, charge the Disruptors. There is battle to be fought. Go in honor, and may you and your house find eternal glory in the great halls of Sto'Vo'Kor! We have always hid in the shadows, content to plot against our enemies, ready for when they trip, to swoop in and conquer. However, we must now emerge from the shadows to combat a grave new threat. Our Navy in sector _____ has encountered the Borg, a cybernetic species whose only wants are the assimilation of our people and the death of our great Star Empire. We must bind together, and show them the true power of Romulus. Charge the Disruptors, arm the Plasma Torpedoes and disengage the Cloaking devices. Send this enemy back to where it came from! As people of great knowledge and power, we have much to be desired by other species. When these species plan to disrupt our way of life, we must confront and exterminate them. We have engaged a species known as the Borg in sector _____. They thrive on death and destruction. We must not let them do that to us. We will not let them do that to us. We have always persevered, and so shall we now. We will fight with our last breath to protect Cardassia. Some have spoken of the great evils that the Founders must fight. Now, we have come to that great battle. We have engaged a species calling itself the Borg in sector _____. This race has only the urge to destroy and conquer, and refer to our Gods as "irrelevant". We must teach these heathens the wrath of our mighty Dominion. With the blessing of the Founders, nothing will stand in our way! Now what i've written doesn't perfectly fit with your own ideas, but i'm always open to suggestions. My idea of them targeting "the most powerful race" does in some ways work with what you've stated however - a race will by definition be less powerful if any enemy starts wiping out its fleets.  The idea of an anti-Borg alliance is also very much only a potential idea - the diplomacy part of the game is still only in its infancy so I don't know if Mike plans to include this or not - please don't take my mentioning of it as meaning this feature is set in stone, because it certainly isn't. I did also include Species 8472 in the list of randoms. Here's what i've written: Species 8472 They pour out of a fluidic gate and destroy everything within sight - including Planets themselves. You have to fight them to stop the invasion. Species 8472 will only appear once the Borg have invaded, although if/when they appear will otherwise be random. Whilst experimenting with the energy matrix for a new form of propulsion, a team of scientists opened a Quantum Singularity into another dimension; Fluidic Space. They encountered a species that are known only by the Borg designation of "Species 8472". It seems they were angered by our opening of the conduit, and have begun a mass invasion of the sector. The scientists were killed by the invaders, but not before sending a message that the invaders were moving into other sectors. We must combat this grave threat before it gets out of hand. Glory is on the horizon! We have fought many battles in this Galaxy, and now we must look further away from the homeworld to find enemies worthy of the Empire. Whilst experimenting with a new method of propulsion, our yej'an opened a Quantum Singularity to another dimension. The yej'an and their new technology were destroyed by an invading species, and now they are attacking everything within range. Charge your Disruptors, load the Torpedo bays. There is glory to be had from these invaders! Whilst the Empire would be content with simply conquering this Galaxy, we must be prepared to defend it from attack from those in other Galaxies - and beyond. Whilst our researchers were experimenting with a new type of propulsion system, a stable doorway into another dimension formed. Before we had a chance to study the doorway and find a way to seal it, a hostile species found its' way through and destroyed the research facility. We must show these invaders what the Star Empire is made of! The Union is constantly in search of the materials it needs to defend itself. Whilst our researchers experimented with a new propulsion system to bring us those resources faster, a Quantum Singularity formed in the reaction chamber. Before the researchers could abort their project, a hostile species invaded the facility. Contact has since been lost with several other facilities in the area. The Navy will teach these invaders a lesson they will never forget. Cardassia can and will defend itself. The Gods protect us from the evil of the Universe. Whilst our researchers experimented with a new propulsion system that will allow us to spread the message of the Founders further than ever before, a Quantum Singularity to another dimension formed. The facility was destroyed by the evil that came through from another dimension. The Gods have told us that we must combat this evil; else we shall fall from their favour. We must not let that happen. We will not let it happen. We shall send the evil back to where it came from. So this time it's a little different to your ideas; they're more aggressive, and less discerning as to a choice of target. But as i've said, i'm willing to make changes - and we don't even know if it will be possible to add in 8472 yet. As for your idea of having the Borg act in a more scripted way, Blane, there are positives and negatives to this. First of all, is whether we can actually create multi-part randoms - I personally hope so, because i've created several of these in my randoms list, such as detecting instabilities in a star on one turn, then several turns later the star going nova. Anyways, having a scripted Borg attack in this way would definitely be the closest way of following canon. However, the downside is it would make the Borg predictable - players would know to start defending their colonies better, to stop expanding, or to start constructing a huge fleet. This could potentially unbalance the game, and remove the mystery that surrounded the Borg until first contact occurred. The final scripted part of your Borg random though already ties in well with my random event though; the Borg would expand from a single base of operation once they had reached a certain level, and act as an empire from that point onwards. As i've said before, it remains to be seen what *can* be done, but i'll certainly be pressing for the Borg to at least do something along these lines. Any feedback you have on what i've written so far would be appreciated. They are a work-in-progress and I think we're all agreed that we want to do the Borg justice. _________________ "Anyone without a sense of humour is truly at the mercy of the rest of us."  |
| 13 May 2009, 01:15 |
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Crewman Joined: 12 May 2009, 19:55 Posts: 12
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Yup, I read those prior and those ideas do sound good. I like the notion of an Anti-Borg Alliance and hope to see that possible. It reminds me of the Klingons being mentioned as having fought the cube in The Best of Both Worlds.
I agree a balance must be struck between predictability and the mystery that surrounded the Borg when they were first encountered. But maybe that would exist inherently? A new player wouldn't know what to expect and may in fact expect a pretty plain, unintelligent behavior. Over time, like with any AI in any game, the player will catch on to the conditions. In this case I actually think that's alright. The Borg largely do have set behaviors. They might adapt new strategies over time, but I think their inherent behavior is rather predefined until that proves ineffective. And even then that might take a while. Remember that drone in Scorpion that just stands there trying again and again to put its tubules into the hull of 8472? But I digress. If the Borg end up being an AI empire of their own then, while it might start from an event, I think the door has been opened to a much broader utilization of AI; the same realm of capabilities that any AI empire would have. Deciding the logic behind who/when they attack other races might be more versatile. But then.. I really don't know how AI is coded or if events and empires would have separate models, so I might be talking out my arse. Having logic such as you described, though, in which an event can be mapped over several moves, I think would be a must-have, though. |
| 14 May 2009, 21:03 |
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Evil Romulan Overlord of Evil - Now 100% Faster! Joined: 02 Dec 2004, 01:00 Posts: 7392 Location: Returned to the previous place.
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The AI is actually one of the areas where we intend to greatly improve upon BOTF; we've got plans to utilize it much more in the game, with the introduction of system governors to take control of colonies that players don't want to micromanage themselves. Players will even be able to create pre-defined construction lists for new colonies that the AI will automatically implement for them on the foundation of new colonies. Mike has termed this gameplay style as "macromanagement", as it allows for players to highly customise their game towards their particular gameplay style. We also intend to make the AI more intelligent and challenging than it was in BOTF. Programming codes have come a long way in the last decade afterall.
Of course, the AI is a work-in-progress at the moment - barely. It's closer to the initial planning stages rather than the playtesting/implementation stages, which means there's a long time yet for the game and eventual AI usage ideas to mature and develop. You will see this development in future updates and announcements that we make on the forums, and i've already discussed with Mike some big changes that are coming. They won't be in the Easter update, but they will be in an update sometime this year if everything goes to plan. I'm sworn to secrecy though so I can't say anymore about it muahahaha.  _________________ "Anyone without a sense of humour is truly at the mercy of the rest of us." |
| 14 May 2009, 23:23 |
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Crewman Joined: 12 May 2009, 19:55 Posts: 12
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I'm good at arm twisting. Don't tempt me. And my Indian burns are something to be feared!
But I digress... Another side-thought I had regarding the Borg was to take a page from Voyager - which I do hesitantly since I think Voyager did a good job of demystifying the Borg. This may, however, end up introducing a component of a larger scale: technology stealing. Keeping to the Borg aspect for the moment, the idea would have been that the Borg assimilate technology as they take over planets and ships that employ it. So the flip side would be that when a Borg ship is destroyed or one of their worlds conquered, that technology could be salvaged. I can quickly see where that might become a difficult thing to put into practice, or something that would be difficult to balance. A simpler version might simply be gaining "research points" from salvage that can be put towards something you're currently researching. Technically this could be expanded to be applied to anything you destroy or take over from any race, but I think there's the most precedence regarding the Borg. |
| 14 May 2009, 23:32 |
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Evil Romulan Overlord of Evil - Now 100% Faster! Joined: 02 Dec 2004, 01:00 Posts: 7392 Location: Returned to the previous place.
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Technology stealing is something that we hope to have in the game - via random events and Intel. But as for including it as part of the Borg event, I believe that's a new idea. It remains to be seen what exactly can be done in the game and what can't, but I think this is a thread that Mike really needs to be a part of, so i'll send him a PM with a link to this discussion. We don't want to come up with wild ideas and discuss how they will be implemented when the guy who is actually making it knows it can't be done. And on the flip side he knows if it can.
_________________ "Anyone without a sense of humour is truly at the mercy of the rest of us." |
| 15 May 2009, 11:30 |
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Crewman Joined: 12 May 2009, 19:55 Posts: 12
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Matress_of_evil wrote: Technology stealing is something that we hope to have in the game - via random events and Intel. But as for including it as part of the Borg event, I believe that's a new idea. It remains to be seen what exactly can be done in the game and what can't, but I think this is a thread that Mike really needs to be a part of, so i'll send him a PM with a link to this discussion. We don't want to come up with wild ideas and discuss how they will be implemented when the guy who is actually making it knows it can't be done. And on the flip side he knows if it can. Hehe, understood. If it's one thing I don't lack it's ideas, and some are certain to be wild. Look at it this way... if I start helping with code, I'll have a reason to keep my mouth shut. |
| 15 May 2009, 19:23 |
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Crewman Joined: 01 Aug 2009, 20:58 Posts: 4
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I personally would love to see the borg as a playable race, but only after you beat the game with all the other races first. I think there should be a Unimatrix one system, but I think it should be hard enough to destroy that all the other races need to form alliances to beat it. Instead of just destroying eachother it would make diplomacy a more interesting and rewarding experience.
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| 04 Aug 2009, 21:07 |
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Crewman Joined: 12 May 2009, 19:55 Posts: 12
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Bowlesy wrote: I personally would love to see the borg as a playable race, but only after you beat the game with all the other races first. I think there should be a Unimatrix one system, but I think it should be hard enough to destroy that all the other races need to form alliances to beat it. Instead of just destroying eachother it would make diplomacy a more interesting and rewarding experience. Not a bad idea. In RTS games I've often enjoyed facing off against a team of "easy" opponents. It's a different kind of challenge or, at the very least, you get to unleash sheer carnage. A play mode designed specifically for that, in which you play the Borg against a united universe of other races, could be quite awesome. And for the record.. sorry I offered help with the game then disappeared. Such is too often my attention span. I was hoping it would be different in this case but apparently not. |
| 04 Aug 2009, 21:38 |
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Evil Romulan Overlord of Evil - Now 100% Faster! Joined: 02 Dec 2004, 01:00 Posts: 7392 Location: Returned to the previous place.
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Don't worry about disappearing; we're a fan-based project and we all know that our lives can get in the way of our obsession. Many people that at one time were major posters and contributors to the forums no longer visit - some of them I particularly miss because they were a right laugh, such as CVN-65, or made great contributions, such as OmniQ. And other people, such as SonOfMogh, are both, and still randomly pop up on the forums once or twice a year. Ok, i'm probably one of the very few people who would know about people like them, but life goes on. The BOTF2 project has been around since September 2004 and we're still here. I don't see it going away anytime soon, so there's no reason to worry about disappearing.
_________________ "Anyone without a sense of humour is truly at the mercy of the rest of us." |
| 04 Aug 2009, 23:01 |
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Crewman Joined: 08 Oct 2007, 01:00 Posts: 29 Location: US
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Say Moe, did I ever end up sending you that PM about the Borg a while back? I only ask because I was wondering if if would be ok for me to post it here. Let me know here or in a PM.
_________________ "Commander, destroy the remaining Borg, then blow the Federation vessels out of the stars... I want total galactic supremacy." |
| 08 Aug 2009, 06:56 |
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Evil Romulan Overlord of Evil - Now 100% Faster! Joined: 02 Dec 2004, 01:00 Posts: 7392 Location: Returned to the previous place.
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Oh, you mean the unlockables idea? Sorry that I never replied to your PM...actually I have no idea why I didn't, as it is an idea worth discussing before Mike starts to implement the Borg.
As it's your idea, you're welcome to post it in the thread, or we can discuss it via PM. It's your idea, so your choice. Check your sent box messages (Not your out box as messages are removed from your out box when the recipient has read them) if you're trying to remember how you worded your idea to me. Or if you can't find it, I can send you back a copy. _________________ "Anyone without a sense of humour is truly at the mercy of the rest of us." |
| 09 Aug 2009, 22:48 |
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Cadet  Joined: 10 Oct 2005, 01:00 Posts: 56 Location: Albany NY USA
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Matress_of_evil wrote: Don't worry about disappearing; we're a fan-based project and we all know that our lives can get in the way of our obsession. Many people that at one time were major posters and contributors to the forums no longer visit - some of them I particularly miss because they were a right laugh, such as CVN-65, or made great contributions, such as OmniQ. And other people, such as SonOfMogh, are both, and still randomly pop up on the forums once or twice a year. Ok, i'm probably one of the very few people who would know about people like them, but life goes on. The BOTF2 project has been around since September 2004 and we're still here. I don't see it going away anytime soon, so there's no reason to worry about disappearing. I remember some of them.  Some I even played BOTF online with. Such as Matressofevil. We even got on Skype to get a game going. Hey... I'm very glad the game is still being worked on! _________________ I LOVE BOTF... Major Ray Barber of the NY airsoft Team Oct Luft |
| 11 Aug 2009, 20:44 |
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Crewman Joined: 08 Oct 2007, 01:00 Posts: 29 Location: US
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Matress_of_evil wrote: Oh, you mean the unlockables idea? Sorry that I never replied to your PM...actually I have no idea why I didn't, as it is an idea worth discussing before Mike starts to implement the Borg. As it's your idea, you're welcome to post it in the thread, or we can discuss it via PM. It's your idea, so your choice. Check your sent box messages (Not your out box as messages are removed from your out box when the recipient has read them) if you're trying to remember how you worded your idea to me. Or if you can't find it, I can send you back a copy. Okay, I managed to find the PM in question, so here it is, slightly modified; Quote: I noticed though that the concensus seems to be that the Borg will not be a playable race in the game. Looking at it objectively I can see why. They are vastly more powerful then everyone else and so it wouldn't be much of a challenge... or maybe it would... You see, I have been pondering a way to make the Borg a playable race, though (and I realise I don't know the first thing about programming) I dare say it could be complex... here goes; - First off, make the Borg unlockable. Either you have to defeat them in a game, complete a game as one of the major powers or as all of them, or something. Set a goal that people have to atain in order to gain the privilage (if you can call the mass murder and 'enslavement' of thousands of worlds a privilage...) of playing them at all. - Next, make it a challange. Set up some special parameters that you must play by in order to be Borg. 1. Borg cannot make friends. Everyone hates them because they assimilate or destroy everything. This means no treaties and no trade. It also means that who ever you encounter are going to shoot first or simply run away. "Big deal!" I here you cry, "The Borg would waste any idiot stupid enough to stand up to them, or day I say it, attack them." Excellent point, but I'll get to that in a second. 2. Borg cannot research. That's right, make it so the only way they can gain technology is by gobling up juicy morsels of research happy races. The biggest prizes being advanced or even supreme super powers. "Again with the Borg smoking any fool who's dumb enough to learn anything better then Warp Drive." True... to an extent, but I will come back around to this one again. 3. Species 8472. You heard me. At some point in the game, by some set variable (i.e. on turn 100 + or - between 1 and 15 turns) that makes 8472 turn up and start playing merry heck with your oh so ready to be vanquished Borg Collective. This would be the biggest challenge for the Borg and so might even be set later on in the game (I don't honestly know how many turns a standard game lasts). But that's not all, there are a bunch of minor races and or entities that could mess with the Borg. The Voth (if I am remembering their name correctly) have a giant super ship with technology the Federation can only dream of, and which should pose a problem for our technologically augmented buddies. Aside from the poweful entities, you could also have the super powers (when you meet them) gather together for a giant retalliation assualt once you start eating their colonies. It may take a lot of ships on their part, but they could do some serious damage if they were united against you. 4. Make them start from scratch. This is kind of the linch pin of this whole thing. When the Borg started out, they weren't as powerful as they are in the TNG era. Everyone has to start somewhere and that's precisely what players should have to do in order to play as the Borg. You could even have it be that the begining of the game is just after their first successful assimilation of an entire planet. That way, everyone around them can instantly hate them, thus encuring the 'no friends' rule. Let's recap 1 and 2 to point out how this helps. 1. Borg cannot make friends. "Doesn't matter, they'll just assimilate everyone." But they can't, they haven't the means to just smite everyone they encounter, they just got started. That and they have to obtain resources like anyone else, amassing a fleet isn't going to happen right away. This one point already makes it a challenge. Coupled with the second condition 'no research' it's going to be a nightmare trying to get off the ground. "Ok... that sounds reasonable... but eventually they're going to get to a point where the minor races are no longer a threat." The same could be said of the five galactic powers. "Hmm... and later in the game? When they have Borg tactical cubes zipping around the place?" That's when 8472 decide to make their move. In fact you could make that the parameter of the 8472 attack. Once the Borg reach a certain level of advancement (through assimilation) it sets off their need to disturb fluidic space. This means that when it becomes possible to stand up to the galactic powers with some ease, you can put the Borg back in their place. "So, they make their way to that point... somehow manage to defeat 8472... then what? They're the dominant power in the galaxy and they take over everything else and that's the end." It is. Don't forget that that's what it is like playing as any of the five galactic powers as it is. In short I believe that it is possible to make the Borg playable, and make it fair (In Single player mode only, of course). This is just something I've been mulling over. I'd love to get some feedback on it, see if it's viable or if I'm just chasing my tail. While I'm thinking about it, the Borg isn't likely to have much in the way of intelligence, so they are highly susceptible to espionage and sabotage. Right? Another set against them and something to even the odds. Anywho, as I said in the message I would really love to get some feedback on this one. Much as the Borg are supposed to be the bad guys, it'd be awesome to be able to play as them. _________________ "Commander, destroy the remaining Borg, then blow the Federation vessels out of the stars... I want total galactic supremacy." |
| 12 Aug 2009, 07:18 |
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Ship Engineer   Joined: 10 Jul 2006, 01:00 Posts: 5130 Location: Space is disease and danger, wrapped in darkness and silence!
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There was talk about a mod to replace one of the major races with the Borg. You would want to change the stats to reflect their abilities as well.
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| 12 Aug 2009, 12:47 |
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Crewman Joined: 08 Oct 2007, 01:00 Posts: 29 Location: US
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That would be ok, but it'd be nice if you could play the game with all the super powers, rather then substituting one of them, for another.
But anywho, any thoughts on any of that stuff? _________________ "Commander, destroy the remaining Borg, then blow the Federation vessels out of the stars... I want total galactic supremacy." |
| 19 Aug 2009, 04:56 |
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Crewman Joined: 07 Oct 2007, 01:00 Posts: 6
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I think if it is possible you should have the option of playing as the Borg. But there would have to be a number of adjustments. For example there wouldn't be any diplomacy or intelligence. granted it might be too easy with their ships being as powerful as they were but perhaps the species 8472 AI could be enhanced when humans play the Borg.
On a side note, do we know if it will be possible to assimilate worlds rather the conquer them? So when you take a system it replaces the native population, say Klingon, with Borg. |
| 19 Aug 2010, 11:27 |
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Lieutenant Commander  Joined: 20 Sep 2004, 01:00 Posts: 690 Location: UK
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As I understood it the Borg will just wipe out all population on a planet. Otherwise how would you take back a Borg planet?
_________________ Who says there's never a Klingon around when you need one. |
| 19 Aug 2010, 11:33 |
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Crazed Emissary of the Photoshop   Joined: 13 Mar 2009, 20:17 Posts: 2091 Location: Krapina, Croatia
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Simple, kill all the drones with planetary bombardment.
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| 19 Aug 2010, 11:51 |
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Lieutenant Commander Joined: 20 Sep 2004, 01:00 Posts: 690 Location: UK
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Which of course would reduce the population to zero. If that's ultimately going to be the case might as well have the Borg wipe everyone out as your colony is already destined to be a loss and at least this way the game doesn't have to worry about the activities of a Borg planet.
_________________ Who says there's never a Klingon around when you need one. |
| 19 Aug 2010, 19:37 |
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Crazed Emissary of the Photoshop Joined: 13 Mar 2009, 20:17 Posts: 2091 Location: Krapina, Croatia
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But it makes it more interesting if the Borg assimilates half of the population of the planet and takes it.
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| 19 Aug 2010, 22:04 |
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Lieutenant Commander Joined: 20 Sep 2004, 01:00 Posts: 690 Location: UK
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Can't argue there... Would they be able to construct ships etc from the planets though? I'd kind of assumed Borg vessels weren't hindered by range or fuel, however if they can assimilate planets and build ships or even outposts then is that the case? I know nobody is implying this will be the case, but if it were it brings the Borg closer to being a normal race rather than an unpredictable force of nature.
I guess I just prefer the Borg as they were in Best Of Both Worlds, you don't really know if there are any other cubes, if they control any space, or how large they are. Instead just a random cube show up and causes complete havok. _________________ Who says there's never a Klingon around when you need one. |
| 19 Aug 2010, 22:35 |
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Crazed Emissary of the Photoshop Joined: 13 Mar 2009, 20:17 Posts: 2091 Location: Krapina, Croatia
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I agree that they were more interesting before Voyager in terms of a TV show, but in terms of gameplay they are more interesting if they have their own space.
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| 19 Aug 2010, 22:41 |
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Crewman Joined: 07 Oct 2007, 01:00 Posts: 6
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Well if the Borg are just going to wipe out the population then they should gain strength with each world they destroy. As the assimilate more worlds they should get more ships ect. Since they won't have planets or the ability to construct ships they should gain them by assimilating new planets. It makes sense since the Borg didn't really kill anyone, rather they assimilated them, and these new drones will need new Cubes ect.
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| 19 Aug 2010, 23:10 |
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Admiral   Joined: 14 Jan 2009, 10:17 Posts: 2042
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0069twiggy wrote: Well if the Borg are just going to wipe out the population then they should gain strength with each world they destroy. As the assimilate more worlds they should get more ships ect. I think that's the general plan, yes. They'll unlock more powerful ship classes as they win battles. |
| 20 Aug 2010, 17:36 |
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