you would need alot of ships to destroy a comet or asteroid, as they are over 10 miles in width, you could not tractor a comet as its comprised of ice which would brake up on tractering, also you could have the special of a moon coming out of orbit or descending into the atmostphere, as in a st : tng episode

We never said that comets were flying around the place... I don't know if they will be in in that way... But ofcourse they will be placed as a random, could change the planet type .

Since this is a long thread, and ive read it all at once, i thought i might touch on a couple of things.

First of all i thought just about everything suggested is agood idea, tribbles would be interesting. One i heard sounded esp interesting, the Discovery of Data. Lets say every time you start a new game, data is placed in a random system in the galaxy. whichever civ finds him gets data on their side, and perhaps he gives a science bonus. Another idea with data is once you get him you can chose any ship in your fleet to place him on. this ship then gets boosted to the highest or seond hghest experience level for combat. You could transfer him to another ship later on, but you have be careful, you lose that ship, you lose data.

Wormholes. i like the idea of no deadends, and the stable and unstable ones. perhaps you could do research/send a probe into the wormhole to tell if it is stable or not. I also think bajor should always have a wormhole in or next to it, whether it is stable or not.

Minosians as a minor is a good idea, but if i remember correctly from the episode they were trying to sell weapons equipment, perhaps they could give 100% bonus to weapons research. the shipbuilding bonus is also a good idea.

at a certain point in the game you should be able to stop meterors, or at the very least lessen the degree of damage they inflict. Perhaps only if you have a high enough science rating, and can see them coming in advance.

Finally, two thoughts of my own.

Dont have the borg go nuts. i relize in the trek universe they are very powerful, but ive had a few games ruined by never ending borg attacks. i remember one in particular where i had a giant fleet, but after having to destroy about 20-30 cubes, the whole galaxy was in shambles, and i said forget it.

Last but not least, we need more positive random events. other than a positive climate shift and being left a sum of money, there arent any.

sorry for such a big post, theres just so much that can be done with this game

Don't agree on this Bajor thing, if you choose a random map, you choose a random map, and not a random map with a wormhole everytime next to bajor. Otherwise play other types of maps, like campaign maps, selfmade maps, or whatever.



I totally agree on this.



I thougth about the ground defence rate, that it would also be influencing the blow of a meteor.



Slowly the Borg will become powerfull, if you defeat their first attack with ships, there will come a stronger one, and a stronger, till fusion cubes will come on the screen. BUT you can also put them off, or change the strength of these cubes if you don't like them.



Totally agree on that, now we just have to think of some

Well, the bajor thing wasnt a big deal, but you mentioned the campaign map. On that map, will bajor always have a wormhole? and if so, is it always going to lead to the delta quad?

With the borg, you said they will come back with different vessels if you destoy their previous ones, will this ever stop? say i keep destroying their cubes, will they eventually give up and seek easier prey, or will they keep coming?

as for ideas for positive random events, heres a few that my roomate and myself thought up. (some of them arent that great, but i thought even if some wont work, maybe they could be adapted, or serve as a template for ideas could work)

An archaelogical dig has uncovered an ancient piece of advanced techology, and gives you some type of science bonus.
An archaelogical dig has uncovered an ancient artifact that is culturally signifigant to our people, and gives you a morale bonus.
An enemy spy has requested asylum. In return for our protection, he has given us a detailed account of enemy operations. (This could be something like either an intel boost, greater internal security against sabatoge from the empire the spy defected from (for a limited time), or greater success in our operations against the spy's former empire)
A scientist from the _____ empire has requested asylum. In return for our protection, he has brought with him all of his current reasearch in the field of ______. ______ teraquads of data acquired.
Instead of always having something like, "We have forwarded an insulting letter to ______ 's ambasidor, relations have suffered." How about something like ," At a recent diplomatic summit our diplomats and the ______ diplomats have reached a new understanding. Relations have improved as a sresult." (or maybe something like you get double the ammount of credits fom your trade route with that empire)
Istaead of always getting the message about the _____ government has changed rulers, and the new govt is less friendly with you, it could be the opposite. The new govt is more open to your people.
I remember when you play as the carddasians, when you declare war the message would pop up on the summary saying "War with the _____ people has boosted troop enlistments." Maybe when war is declared, it could influence the ammount of officers you get per turn for a limited time
Farmers in the ______ system have reported near perfect growing conditions. Farms increase production by x% for X ammount of turns.
We have experienced signifigant breakthrough in our intelligence networks targeting the _____ empire, as a result espionage/sabotage is greatly advanced for x ammount of turns.
Scientists have found radical new methods in the mining of dilithium/duterium/raw resources. Accumulation of this resource has inceased by x% for either x ammount of turns, or perhaps to the end of whichever era you are in then.
After any important successful military engagement, there is a chance of producing a hero. All this would do is it would list whichever system the hero was born in, and officer enlistment would increase by x ammount in that system for x turns. ( I wanted to think of some bonus for officers, but i dont know how good this one is)
We have encountered a colony ship originating from the doomed planet of ______. These survivors are desperate to find a new home and have pledged alligence to our empire if we provide them with aplace to live. (Free colony ship)
This is an idea from MOO. Splinter colonies. It would apply only to systems nearby your home system, and early in the game. It would be something along the lines of seperatist colonists left your home system many years ago, and have already colonized this system. After many years of isolation they are eager to rejoin their people. ( this could be something along the lines that they immediatly become one of your coloneis, maybe starting with a population of 50, and some basic structures)

Of course these would all be realitivly rare, at least no more common than the negative random events.

Sorry, i know its alot, but ideas kept coming as i went along. Hopefully some of these, or just other positive events will be included in the game.

If i can think up any others, ill post them later, but im burned out, this post took awhile to write. Let me know what you guys think...

Those are some of the best new ideas I've read in a long while. Nicely done.

When you have created a campaign map that can do this, then yes it will be in.

About the borg:

The Borg will be able to expand, while assimilating other races, when you hold them of the first time, destroy their ships and stuff, then they will come back into the galaxy with bigger ships, till they have grown full into the Borg we know. So won't be suprised if you see suddenly a big piece of space, taken by the Borg. You could make a counter offense to attack the Borg with a massive fleets of different empires.

thanks, i do what i can

just wondering, when you guys have talked to gavin, does he want alot of positive events, or is it going to be like the first one with only a very small ammount of positive events (hopefully it will atlast have a few more positives, maybe some of my ideas)

Excellent, im glad i could be of help

Ill see if i cant think up some more.

All i ask in return is that you atleast keep me in mind when choosing testers

Heres something i saw in another thread, and thought it could fit in here.

A scout vessel has come across a technologically advanced ship adrift in sector______. ( As a result, either A. You get control of this ship, to make use in your fleet [ofcourse there would need to be restriction placed on exactly what this ship could do, but i dont think this bonus could work out this way], or B. discovery of this ship has advanced our research in the area of ______ by _____ teraquads of data.)

what do ya think..

Advancement in research is excellent with this one, but you will not be able to control this vessel. We discussed that some time ago.

i figured you wouldnt be able to do that with the ship.

man, ive read that TWAAO thread like 3-4 times now, and theres still stuff i forget

Heres another i thought of. It deals with the concept of loyality that ive seen in a few different threads.

In a system that is in the lower levels of loyality, you could have something along the lines of "Our internal security forces have uncovered and arrested (or executed, depending on which empire you are) terrorists. As a result, loyality among the citizenry has improved." (Not the best explanation for this concept, but i think there should be a random that effects loyality.)

There could also be another random that decreases loyality in a system. Like anohter empire has succesfully disseminated propaganda against us to one of our colonies.

Just more ideas to knock arround. Let me know what ya think...

Gamma-Ray-Bursts within the galaxy as a rare random:

Field astronomers report the super-giant star at XX,YY has gone collapsar, producing a massive Gamma Ray Burst. Planetary systems in its path will be sterilized once the burst reaches them. They will need to be evacuated. This includes these systems, in order of urgency: [list of known inhabited systems falling on a line randomly determined on the map, closest systems first].

Field astronomers report the orbits of the binary pulsar system at XX,YY has decayed to the point where they've combined into a black hole. The resulting radiation burst will sterilize all life within R light years. The following planets must be evacuated before the radiation hits: [list of systems known to be inhabited within a preset radius, closest first].

The list would include systems belonging to another's race, if known by the player. This would allow the offer of assistance to systems that are not yours and improve relations and moral. Or, if you don't like them, to attack when they're weak.

A certain number of turns after the announcement (determined by distance) the nearest star systems get destroyed. And then, after a time, the next systems... And the next... Until the preset radius for that event is achieved.

Once a system is affected by the GRB, it can be recolonized.

Both these would be extremely rare � just as they are in reality. The random galaxy generator would have to create a super-giant or binary pulsar system in the first place and only afterwards could it be a random event. But when they happen, it would be a complete catastrophe.

I've been thinking about test beds as random events.

"A prominent scientist in the field of ______ has formulated a new and exciting theory. If it proves true, it could revolutionize the field. He requests funding for a test-bed: XX officers, YY Deuterium per turn, ZZ dilithium [per turn] for TT turns.

"Do you wish to fund him?"
<yes> <no>

If you fund the project and it is successful, you jump to the next level in that field. Using BotF1 analogy, you'd jump from tech5 to tech6 in biology, for example, the moment the project succeeds. There might be a moral boost, too.

If it fails you still get some teraquads of research data. (Remember, knowing what *wont* work is important too.)

However, every turn there is a small probability that the project goes sour: cost over-runs, delays, terminal bureaucracy or any of the other things that tend to happen to government projects. (Actually: projects in general. We're just more likely to hear about the gov ones.)

If the project goes sour there is a chance of it getting out to the public and hurting moral. In the random events window there would be a place where you could keep track of and, if you so choose, defund a project. If the project is defunded, you get zero research points from it.

Honestly, I'm kinda on the fence as to whether this is a good idea or not. First, it makes it the code that much more complex. Same for game-play: more to keep track of in both cases. On the other hand, it's that much closer to reality.

Ok, now i dont claim to be anything more than an amateur astronomer, but in reality i dont think that is what happens.

When a star is at the end of its life (red super-giant) and it goes super-nova, a massave explosion takes place that kicks off all of the matter surronding the super-dense core of the star. This in turn leaves a neutron star behind, and the part of the star that was blown off forms a new nebula. (BTW, I hated this negative random event in BOTF1, when the nova destroys all the planets in this system. I had this happen in Sol when I was playing as the Feds. maybe we can leave this random out of the sequel?)

From what i know of the formation of black holes, they come as a result of a binary system, when one member of the binary is a neutron star, and the other is a normal star. The neutron star (because of its higher gravitational pull) pulls matter from its binary partner, and adds the matter to itself. After a long time of accreting matter, the neutron star becomes so massive that it colapses into itself, and becomes a black hole.

Like it asid, I am no authority on astronomy, and if my definaions are incorrect, then nevermind what i said. But if my defination are right (and im pretty sure they are), then i dont want the gamma ray bursts (unless we can come ups with a way to simulate them in the game, and make the reason as true to real life as possible.) All i want is a game that is as true to real life as it is true to the Star Trek cannon.

As for your idea on test beds, i think it is a great idea, i agree with all of it. As long as it could be put into the game without too much difficulty on the part of the programers, i say add it in!

Your definitions for the end of certain masses of super-giants and for certain configurations of binaries are correct... However... These are only part of the picture.

Turns out there are several ways to make black-holes. In fact, any time you have inert, normal matter (like you and I, as opposed to "dark matter") that is more dense than a certain, fixed amount, you get a black hole. One of the early explanations for gamma ray burst was the combination of two neutron stars in a binary system, degenerating into a black whole. As I understand it (and I could be wrong on this) this picture is still not discounted for some, very specific sorts of GRBs.

But the currently prevalent explanation for GRBs is the hypernova or collapsar � same thing. Basically, it's a supernova where the total mass of the star is greater than what standard supernova-explosion energy can push completely away. Cores of this large of a star skip the neutron-star stage of their collapse and go directly to a black hole. As the portion of the star's outer envelope of plasma that could not escape falls back on to the newly formed black hole, an accretion disk is formed. I've read accretion disks convert a huge amount of their mass into energy as they fall into the black hole but I can't honestly explain why: I don't understand it. In the collapsar model, this "fact" is essential, however. Once the disk is formed, the energy produced is perpendicular to its rotation; and when that energy hits star material in that direction, the material is accelerated to huge velocities incredibly quickly. This, in turn, creates a great deal of photons of all wavelengths, centered for a time in the gamma-ray spectra. Since the gas is accelerated in a direction perpendicular to the disk's rotation, so's the resultant radiation. There you go: one directional GRB.

But don't take my word for it, look it up... Or check this out: http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/scien ... osion.html

One thing that really got my goat in BotF was the complete absence of astronomical knowledge... Even the pretense of following some forward-looking science was missing. There were no rules controlling the randomness. A supernova will not happen to our sun. It will become a red-giant, then a nova, then a white dwarf with surrounding planetary nebula... I don't pretend to be an expert. *I am not*. But even *I* know there's no such thing as a green super giant!

Collapsars can only happen to stars of a certain size and larger. There wouldn't likely be an habitable system around such a young, hot star. (Stars that large don't live long: they burn their fuel in only a few hundreds of thousands of years. And I would guess that systems around this star would cook from its energy unless it was way out in the boonies of the system where things are made of light stuff. It's a WAG, but it's checkable.) As such, in BotF2, I would suggest that GRBs of these two randoms could only happen if such a star or binary neutron-star (pulsar) was created by the map generator and only from these types of stars. Otherwise, forget it.

Same with supernovae: if it ain't the right kind of star, it wouldn't happen. Further, you'd have lots and lots of time to evacuate. *That* might be a random: a warning that the star will go supernova in 100 turns, or so... Nah. Stars large enough to go supernova are only slightly smaller than those that go hypernova so why would you go to such a system in the first place?

This post has gotten a little out of had... I'll stop now.

Edit: Reading the link above fully and then reading the links from that link, I learned that it's not really known which comes first: the GRB or the gas accelleration... Shows me not to shoot off my mouth so much!

After looking around a bit and realizing what was wrong and what was left out, I was going to just edit the above. But there's too much: It'd need a complete re-write. Instead, I'll summarize:

Stars that go supernova and leave behind a neutron star: 8 solar masses or greater.

Stars that go supernova and leave a black hole: 15 solar masses or greater.

Stars expected to become hypernovae are Wolf-Rayet stars: 25 solar masses or greater. They last millions of years, not hundreds of thousands, as I said. During life, they belch out gas until at the end of life they're left with 10 solar masses and only the radius of one sun. At this point hypernovae happen. My above model is accurate in general but wrong in several glaring details. I'll leave it at that for the moment.

Binary neutron star systems *might* still be the progenitors of *some* short GRBs... But there's a great deal of doubt on this one now-a-days. There'd still happen and they'd still be deadly. But they wouldn't happen at all often... At least that's what I've gotten from tonight's reading.

I guess, in the end, these randoms should simply be left out. I like the idea but frankly if you can't get the science right, don't use them... It's up to the programing team.

In the future, I'll check my facts *before* posting. Sorry everyone.

It felt like I was back in Astronomy class three years ago while I was reading your above posts.

I hope you didnt think I was being overly hard on you in my above post, I liked the idea, i just wanted it to have a realistic explanation behind it. If we can come up with a way to realistically explain the GRB, and it could be implimented without too much trouble, I'd say add it in.

Going back to your idea of testbeds, I really liked it. Perhaps we could get a comment from one of the moderators on whether they like it or not....

Okeey this will happen at the moment, to keep things simple. All stars can go supernova, when a star does this it will get a blackhole. I don't know what Gavin really is planning on if you get a message of something like ten turns to go before stars goes supernova in xx xx, or that it is just boom, suddenly.

Hopefully we'll at least get a little warning, so you could get some of those people out of the system before it blows. I really hated it when all of a sudden a star went "nova" in the original BOTF. Like in 'real life' your scientists wouldnt know this was going to happen decades in advance.

Yes i know i had a trill 510 system in orignal botf game / unmodded i mean. And studdenly there was a supernova message, and my beautiful system was destroyed.

Rigel: I did not feel you were being overly hard in your reply. Instead I felt like a know-it-all. And, as I said in my correction, the general ideas in my smart-ass response was accurate (according to theory), but the details are off.

iwulff: My personal opinion is that if supernovae happen at all, they should only happen to the right types of stars. In spite of my GRB-post flub, which types of stars go supernova is well known. However, I will bow to the opinions of the game makers and simply agree that there should be enough warning prior to a supernova for evacuation.

Are there any comments to be had on the idea of testbeds?

Other than I really like it, and think it should be put in?

Seriously tho, it would be nice to hear somebody elses opinion of it...

I for one am behind it every step of the way. I know less about astronomy than ZDarby, however I spotted so many frankly laughable astronomical occurances in botf and it would be great to avoid this in future.

I vote ZDarby is elected 'Astronomical & Scientific Advisor' and checks any ideas or consults with the bosses about galactic bodies/anomolies.


(Ps- That's quite possibly the worst made up title since 'Strategic Operations Officer.)

If ZDarby wants the position, I say sure. Just as long as he gets his info straight the first time. (Just kidding ZDarby)

SonofMOgh, were you behind the supernova ideas, or the testbeds? (or both?) It wasn't too clear by your reply.

Both.

Good, thats atleast three for the testbeds.

When i first read the idea i really liked it, I just hope a few more of you guys agree , maybe we can get it included in the final release.

I'm all for anything tangable increasing scientific understanding. I thought research in botf was shallow as hell, at least in this one we'll have science ships analysing anomolies, new interesting finds etc etc. That's what trek's about, moreso that ships blowing up.