1. Well about the Borg being an empire, in my opinion it should, but not playable. They should also appear randomly but would have their own territory, if transwarp hubs would exist, there should be two or three of them (I don't really remember how much there were) and each would control the appearance of the Borg in some part of space.

2. I don't know if this is possible but since Borg advances trough assimilation, they shoud advance trough tech levels by getting "assimilation points", when they assimilate a minor race they get a certain number of research points depending on the race they assimilated (tech level of the race)

I know that you get hundreds of suggestions, and that you can't do them all, if you need any help just tell me.

BTW. I have some pics you could use as pictures of Tech objects, where can I send them?

We welcome all comments and ideas, so thanks for your suggestions, vjeko. If you have any images to send to us, you can send them either to myself or Kenneth_of_Borg. A link to our email addresses can be found under any of our respective posts. I won't post them directly for security reasons.

The game generates a galaxy by randomly throwing the different empires and races onto an empty map. It then checks whether they are a certain minimum distance away from the other empires and races, and if any of the races are too close, it generates a new map.

However, there is a problem with the Alpha Quadrant, and that is that it is simply too crowded; more often than not, when the races have been placed randomly on the map, some of the minimum distances are broken, and the game generates a new map. If this happens a certain number of times, it instead throws up an error. Nine times out of ten, the Cardassians are the last race placed on the map. (I don't know why, that's just the way it seems to work in practice) Since the map by that time is already crowded, it's is difficult for the game to find an appropriate location.

Now the most obvious fix is simply to ensure that the empires are placed first on the map, then for a check for minimum distance to be made, then the minor races be placed on the map, then for a final check to be made. I noticed Mike (The developer) of the issue a while ago, but since there haven't been any updates since May, the problem is still present.

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The lack of weapons on ships isn't necessarily a bug; the shiplists within the game are still in flux because I haven't finished implementing them. In fact, i'm going to be removing all weapons in future and replacing them to ensure the weapons maintain more consistency with known weapon types. The game editor is currently broken though so I cannot currently undertake this work.

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The opens-as-you-get-it system with the encyclopaedia works the way it does because people asked for it. It makes sense that you don't know you're going to be building Sovereigns in a couple of hundred years time when you've just launched your first NX class ship afterall. The amount of information in the system *may* be increased in future as well, as i'm working on writing descriptions for a great many different game objects, from Wormholes to the Gomtuu, with a lot of help from Memory Alpha and starfleet.command. These descriptions themselves will likely be unlocked only once you've first encountered them.

Still, I doubt you're the only person that will ask for the change. We could always ask Mike to add a new option to turn the open-as-you-get-it system off. Chances are it would remain on by default though.

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The random events that we've got here were (Almost) entirely written by myself, and i've never played Galactic Civilization. So any similarities are purely coincidental. That said, i've written and expanded them based on feedback and ideas that people have suggested, so those suggestions themselves may have originated from Gal Civ. I certainly know a number of people have asked for certain features from Gal Civ to be added to Supremacy as well. In fact Mike himself has mentioned that he is considering various ideas from that game. He's also interested in some of the features in Sins of a Solar Empire and Civilization 4.

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No one has mentioned there being a problem with Praxis before. Could you try playing another game and see whether it happens again? It's entirely possible that this is a bug, but it's also possible it was a one-off glitch. Checking helps to make sure. It may simply be that something is missing in the code like you said, but i'll add this to my to-do list in case it's a database issue.

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As with the AI, combat in the game is non-existant at the moment. If the system defences aren't registering, Mike likely hasn't written the code that checks for defences yet. Expect it to come in future updates.

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Scrapping hasn't been implemented in the game yet which is why it' not working yet. The mothball yards are currently only there for show. Again, expect this to come in future updates.

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Having certain stations be built by certain transport types likely is programmable, but there are other concerns that would need to be addressed first; every ship requires a combat model, and we're currently dealing with 400+ of them. If we add this as a requirement, at minimum we've going to need another four models (Since the Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, and Dominion only have one transport type at the moment), but if you add starbases into the requirement, that balloons to fourteen more transport models. I'm not so sure Kenneth_of_Borg, our resident modeller would be happy with that news.

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The Klingon conquering bug is new as well; nit's not been reported before to my knowledge. Again, can you start a new game and check whether it happens again to ensure it's not a one-off glitch? I'll forward all of these reports on to Mike and see what he says.

Thanks for the feedback.

The game *is* supposed to use british english. Don't know about the siloes thing though.

IIRC there are other Dilithium Cracking Stations in the game, can't recall which atm.

It's true there is an innate industry capacity to systems, currently it's equal to the system's pop count. It may be changed, it was discussed some time ago. It's basically to allow a systems that was bombarded to the stone age to be able to build at least Primitive Farms to support pop - systems also have an innate food production BTW.

Lots of stuff in Diplo are not implemented yet.

There is a bug with the Command Cruisers (Tactical for Federation).

Systems names, erm, MoE has some difficulty sorting them out, I've reported the duplicates a few times already, but it seems they're never fixed... hopefully, the *next* file (and the next update) will be ok - I don't feel like going through it again.

The upgrade system, and costs, are a pain. MoE will tell you they're not balanced yet, but I'm not sure what we're waiting for. The game will not be finished any time soon, but the sooner these things are addressed, the better.


Oh, and bug reports should be posted to the respective forum

I've had this thread open for a few hours now whilst I typed up a reply and did some other stuff. .Iceman posted in the mean time, so sorry that i'm duplicating some of the things he's said. Anyways, here's my post.

The Missile Siloes is a minor race structure, not a Klingon one. It's probably incorrectly set as both minor race and Klingon. I'll add that to my to-do-list. And yes, the "e" is one of those British things. One is British afterall. What what, pip pip and all that.

Good work noticing the problem with the Tholian Assembly. I've come up with an alternative description that removes the Federation reference. I won't be able to implement it until the editor is working correctly though, so i've added it to my to-do-list.


I've passed on the problem with the conquered structures to Mike. He's just left for a two-week works thing in Shanghai though, and his internet will be dodgy at best thanks to the ridiculous internet filters the Chinese have. But he knows of the problem so he'll work on it when he can.

There are four or five minor races that have a Dilithium Cracking Station as their special structure, although the actual Dilithium bonus gained varies. The Zahl is just one of those races with such a structure, thanks to the unusually large Dilithium deposits in their system. The Zahl description states "the Zahl homeworld and moons contain many layers of rich Dilithium deposits", so in that sense it indirectly references that the structure is only available in the Zahl system.

Yes, you're right, the intel screen doesn't work - it's a placeholder and we have something much better planned. In fact, during a PM discussion that Mike had with myself and Dafedz last week, Mike mentioned that he's experimenting with a new bonus system for the game. It would greatly complicate things for the AI system, but would allow for the implementation of unique new bonuses, and this will most certainly have an impact on our plans for intel as well. Once we know for definite if the system will be implemented and how it will work, myself and Dafedz will start work on rewriting the bonuses and implementing them in the game. This work likely won't take place for a few months yet though until Mike actually figures out whether his experiment will work and if so, implements it in the game.

Yes, systems do have a certain innate amount of production as .Iceman said. We realised this was necessary earlier this year, because if all industrial facilities were destroyed, it would be impossible to rebuild the system, and without food structures, the people would starve before you could build a farm or two to feed the survivors. That's also why there are primitive farms, but no primitive factories. With food, you will always produce enough to feed at least one population block as well. As you correctly said, BOTF had a similar system. The amount of industry that your system produces is based on current population size and morale. Obviously the system hasn't been balanced yet though. And as I mentioned above about the bonuses changing, the morale system may also be changing in future. If it does, this will also have an impact on the base industrial output.

I'm assuming ZOC means zones of control. No, these haven't been hard-coded yet, and i'm not sure what Mike's plans are for this at the moment. Diplomacy is at a very early stage in development at the moment though so expect updates in the future, I just can't say precisely what these updates will be at the moment or even when they will be.

The "Hooray" morale system isn't there because the morale system isn't fully implemented yet - and as I said, we're formulating plans to radically change it from the BOTF system. *IF* our new system is implemented, the new system will be much more realistic, much more involving for players, and will lead to many more effects, both positive - and negative.

The Demands system is part of the Diplomacy, and as I said, Diplomacy is at a very early stage in development. I don' believe the empires are designed to actually give you nything yet because there is no AI to work out what your demand actually means. This also means that no, there isn't a diplo "mood change", but there will be once Diplomacy and the AI are complete.

Again, there's no non-aggression treaties because they haven't been implemented yet. It's not such a problem since neither side can actually fight anyways.

I didn't realise there was a problem with the Assault Cruiser, but the same problem affects the Federation Tactical Cruiser (Prometheus) as well. There's nothing "wrong" in the game database files so it must be a programming issue. I've already notified Mike of the Tactical Cruiser problem, and if it is indeed a programming issue, chances are the fix will fix all tech 11 ships, not just the Tactical Cruiser.

The game generates system names based on a list of names in a simple .txt file; it just takes random names from the list as it generates a map. If a map has two systems called Gamma Hromi, it's because the name "Gamma Hromi" is duplicated in the list and the game just happened to chose both of them. As .Iceman said, there are actually a lot of duplicated names in the list, and i've been working on updating the list since May. He keeps picking up on duplicated names that i've somehow missed out. Anyways, my current version of the list also has a lot of new system names so that games will be much more random. The list that comes with the May update barely has enough names to completely cover a Huge map, so virtually every name will be used on every map with that verison. More names on the list means the game will be able to randomly choose names even on a huge map, ensuring more variety. I'll send my updated copy to Mike before he releases the next major game update so everyone receives it. I could give it to you now but the game would incorrectly recognise the updated file as "outdated" (Since it is different to the copy on the update server) and would constantly attempt to overwrite it with the old version.

As i've said, the game is not yet balanced. It's balanced on paper, but not ingame. Just so you know as well, .Iceman, we will begin balancing the stats and costs to make it fairer and more realistic once the editor works again and the database implementation is complete. I'd rather fix the bugs first before I mess around with the entire system.

I've already passed on the Praxis problem to Mike. I said though, he's off to Shanghai so won't be able to look into the problem for a while.

The map generator is known to suffer from a shape problem, but it's a problem that you forced on it by selecting a tiny map; the generator is only able to produce certain map shapes on the medium and larger map sizes. This has been a problem wth the generators for a few years now, and Mike hasn't been able to solve the issue.

If drastic changes are going to happen, then the game won't be BotF *2* anymore, I guess...

Or so people have been told countless times around here... anyways, as long as changes are for the better, who cares if it's 2 or not.

Hey chickenfoot here, I know you guys are working on the Diplomacy side of BOTF 2 and I just have a few ideas for you:

1. If trade routes are implemented they should have diplomatic consequences (Good or Bad)

1. Trade Routes should be able to be blocked.
2. Trade Routes can be protected (like a convoy situation)
3. Trade Routes should be able to be raided.
4. Trade Routes should be able to hidden
5. Trade Embargo could become diplomatic option, if you don't want to go to war with a faction but don't like them either.

2. Some more diplomatic options could be useful :

1. Mutual Protection Pact, this is NOT a alliance, it's a if someone attacks you i'll attack them treaty.
2. Trading Technology should be possible (some how put them in treaty negotiations).
3. Trading Planets is a possibility ( i don't mind either way just throwing it out there)

4. Is it possible that a neutral zone treaty could be established (or is that what a non aggression pact is?)

5. Could it be possible to introduce some sort of diplomatic victory??

6. Last but not least i think captured units (like in battle not stolen) be able to traded as POW.

-Could it be possible to introduce some sort of diplomatic victory?
-Trade Embargo could become diplomatic option, if you don't want to go to war with a faction but don't like them either.
-Trading Technology should be possible (some how put them in treaty negotiations).

These are some features of Galactic Civilizations 2

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-Mutual Protection Pact, this is NOT a alliance, it's a if someone attacks you i'll attack them treaty.
-Trading Planets is a possibility ( i don't mind either way just throwing it out there)

These are some features of Space Empires 5

Hey Alcathor, sorry for my slow reply. I somehow missed your reply.

The game doesn't grey the options out because they *do* work. They just work less well than expected.

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The Scout can Cloak because we used it as a test bed for the Cloaking code. Since we haven't got an AI to control the other empires yet, we don't know for sure if the cloak code works, so the Scout is keeping the cloak for the time being until such time as we can properly test it.

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The Energy cost of the Hydroponics Dome is down to gameplay balance. It can always be changed later. The image for the structure has already been replaced - in fact a great many of them have been replaced. But since there hasn't been an update since May, you haven't seen the image updates.



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We'll add the Meridians to the known crash list. The next update, whenever that is, should hopefully cure the problem.

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One of the main reasons for Supremacy is for the creation of a game with new ideas and features that BOTF lacked. I'm glad you like this addition. If you have any ideas for other additions, please let us know.

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Someone else reported the Daystrom Institute bonus problem. I've notified Mike. The Desalination Plants problem is likely related, so if one is fixed, the others hopefully will be too.

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The Advanced Solar Array is supposed to be more flexible and be able to be built in more systems than the Solar Arrays. The obsoletion system isn't working as expected though, as structures that have already been built get deleted. This doesn't necessarily remove them from the build list though. Since the Advanced Array doesn't have the Array as a prerequisite (Since it can be built in more places), you end up with the situation you described. The structures need a bit more work, but i've also notified Mike of the problem.

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Thanks for your ideas, Chickenfoot. We've actually already discussed some of the Trade ideas you've had behind-the-scenes, and *want* to add more trade options to the game. It's too early to say what will make it in and what won't, but Mike knows we like the idea of blockades and raiding. Incidentally one of the Random Events is Space Pirates that attack trade routes.

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As i've said in previous posts, we do intend to expand diplomacy. What you see ingame is only the very beginnings of the diplomacy implementation. Mutual Protection Pacts will likely make it into the game. I'm not sure about technology/system trading though - that's down to what is possible in the programming. Same goes with Demilitarised Zones (DMZ's) It's certainly an idea to ask Mike about though.

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Yes, we've got ideas for victory options. There's not much point in playing an unwinnable game afterall.

The diplomatic victory would likely be allying yourself with all other empires and maintaining the alliance for a set amount of time, or getting a certainly percentage of the minor races to join you.

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I'm not 100% sure what you mean by captured units. If you mean capturing ships, this will be via random events or your Intel services only. Capturing ships via combat will not be possible due to programming constraints (Unless we get a new engine that can support it in a way that is both fun and playable). Trading POW's will be something that only Mike can comment on.

It will be better if you post this stuff tp the appropriate forum/thread
You'll find some of these things reported/explained in the other forums, namely Bug Reports.

If capturing units in a combat situation is not possible then using intelligence or random events are the way to go. Once you have these units you can basically lie to faction (varying on how you got them) and trade them back for money or tech.

Also what did you think of the idea of have trade routes being able to be hidden like during the klingon civil war the romulans were getting supplies to their choice of a side using stealth/cloak.

It's the Supremacy thread, Iceman, so pretty much anything game related can go in here. Of course, that explains why the thread is geting so long...

Updating the game won't necessarily stop your save files from working, they just have a very high chance of doing so. But when you do finally update te game, i've got information in the known bugs thread if you encounter any problems such as the infinite update loop bug.

The bonuses are set to a flat rate of 15% because that's Mikes preference. I've not seen anywhere in the files where the bonus size can be varied, but then again i've never specifically looked for the setting. If it's not in there, it's a programming rather than database setting. >iceman might know about this than me, he seems to understand the workings of the database files better.

We've got plans to completely rewrite the rules on the minor races special structures. Unlike BOTF, many of them will have tech and/or structure requirements that must be met before their special structures can be built. Dafedz is in the middle of rewriting the database to include this new information. The actual change won't be implemented ingame until Mike releases the new game editor though. Dilithium Refineries can easily be made a requirement if Dafedz hasn't already thought of this. Just so you know though, the Dominion have a Dilithium Station as their basic Dilithium structure, and it has a +2 Dilithium output, so it might be a little difficult to implement.

Thanks for notifying me of the Polaron problem. I'll add it to my to-do list.

The population sizes has always been a battle. The minor races systems are based on canon where possible, and some races are known to inhabit systems with only one planet. Some purists would crucify us for giving the minors extra planets lol. We've tried increasing the sizes of the planets instead, but this led to other problems. We know that the game isn't yet balanced and we haven't attempted to balance it yet - but this is purely because the database is NOT yet fully implemented. Only once it is will we be able to tell exactly what changes will need to be made. The basic energy output of the facilities has already been increased twice since the original levels though as a quick fix.

• I've never heard of the Ulssians, and neither has the almighty Google. Did you perhaps mean the Ullians? I know they have got an image ingame.
• The Zalkonians do have an image in the released version of the game but it has a typo in it so the game can't find it and it isn't displayed correctly. (Zalkonian.png instead of Zalkonians.png)
• The Quarren were added in the last game update and we didn't have an image at the time. We have one now and it will be included in the next update.

Adjustable colony ships is a new concept. I have no idea if it can be done. Only Mike will be able to answer. Otherwise what you mention is again a matter of balancing, which will be done later.

Just keep posting as you find stuff. We'll reply as we notice your posts. There's no point in you constantly repeating yourself.

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Chickenfoot, all ideas are subject to programming and time constraints. Mike only adds a feature in if there is a need for the feature and it actually adds something to the game. Actual player-controlled trading of items is unlikely to be present in the game because this is a primary feature of BotE, and Mike wants to differentiate Supremacy from BotE.

I have no idea if "hidden" trade routes can be implemented in the game so only Mike can answer this.

Actually, it's the Pre-Release Download thread - this is not about downloading it, is it? There isn't a Supremacy thread per se, these forums are about Supremacy. And yes, the thread is getting too long, hence my comment. A bit of posting discipline won't hurt.

Well i'm fine with you posting here, Alcathor, and I am a forum admin.

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Asimoff just contacted me about the instructions on how to enable .Net in Windows 7. I have now posted these instructions at the bottom of the download post.

Like I told above, there is a Bug Reports forum, and a few other forums. There's more to the site than this thread



Whatever. As long as you're happy.
But then the complains about the forums being chaotic are your fault... anyways, you're the one compiling stuff.

There's lots of highly experimental stuff in the works. Most of it will require a lot of engineering to complete (or even get to the public preview stage). I'm also moving the game to the .NET Framework 4.0, which will be in beta until March. Since I'm not keen on releasing another public build based on a beta framework, I probably won't release any new public builds until the new framework is released.

so no christmas gift from here i guess

But you think it could be for my birthday it´s in May.

I can post an update on what to expect content-wise in the future if you'd like to hear about that. These won't all necessarily make it into the next update though because of the current lack of an editor.

Will be in the next update:

Will be coming once the new editor is released:


...And these are just the ones that i'm allowed to announce since they've already been mentioned elsewhere on the forums. I know there are more but I can't yet say what they are...

Likes and dislikes?

Wow, I salute you for all the time you have invested in this, I used to play BOTF for hours and hours, just loved the game, had a very hard time getting it to run on Vista, recently installed it on W7 and allthough I love the game, the constant crashes and memory leaks where disappointing.
I stumbled upon this game and in one word... WOW!!!

Even though it is still in development... it's GREAT!!!

well as you asked in the OP 3 likes and 3 dislikes, no idea whether they have been mentioned before but here's my 2 cents

likes :
1) It runs smoothly, no crashes yet (running on Windows7)
2) I love the interface and the graphics.
3) Refreshingly new and yet so close to the good old game.

dislikes :
1) I am very much used to hit the "T" to run a turn, hard to get used to pushing the "TURN" button
2) Where's my cheat? I would love to see the -Mudd option ;-)
3) I want it to be finished... NOW NOW NOW ;-)

doubts :
1) Still deciding whether I like my ships to get stranded or to not get any further then they are supposed to period.
2) There is so much to build, maybe even a little too much.
3) I kinda miss the terraforming.

No, but seriously, great work, can hardly wait for the game to be completely finished.

Hey Martin, welcome to the forums!

Adding new key bindings isn't a problem. In fact, Mike has actually asked people to suggest new ones - and you're also not the first first person to ask for it, so don't worry, this feature should make it into the game one day. I can't promise it'll be in the next update, but i'll try to remind Mike for you.

As for cheats...try pressing F12. It won't give you research or money, but it'll reveal the map until you next hit the turn button.

We've got even more buildings on the way so it's going to get even worse...but we're also planning a shakeup of the techtree and we've (I've) got a lot of work to do on the build costs etc and balancing of the game, so once that work is done, there should be less of an issue with the sheer amount of buildings available. Higher tech levels will also start with *some* special buildings pre-built for you. That will be part of a future update though, just don't ask me when.

Terraforming in some sense will be in the game in future, but it'll work differently. It will physically cause the planet to change class. (Eg. Arctic -> Desert) It'll be part of a future update, although almost definitely not the next one, and maybe not the one after that either.

If you have any further comments or questions, please let us know.

Hi Matress, thanks for the welcome

How many people are actually working on this project?

One other thing that I noticed while playing with BotF2, I liked the playing map better in the original version (a map that can be zoomed so the entire map fits on one screen)
Yes BotF2 can zoom, but I haven't found a way yet to zoom out far enough to prevent having to scroll to see the entire galaxy map.

Just throwing thoughts at you of course, it is in no way meant as mean criticism since I am very gratefull somebody picked up the ball that Micropose dropped so many years ago and possibly there are very good reasons for all the things I dislike

Thanks for the F12 tip, I stopped hitting keys at F10 (which is typically the only cheat I need while playing the original )

Actually working on the project? Or working on the game itself? (Since we're technically producing several games)

I've never counted. Here's the game credits as they currently stand, although I know that Kenneth wants to add a few names to the ship modelling section.



According to my calculations, that's 48 separate names, but there are many, many more than that - people who have contributed ideas etc to the game without producing anything physical, like a structure image, or a sound file, for instance. Not all of the names in the list are currently working on the game either - they either stopped visiting the forums, have never actually visited but worked through someone else, or have other commitments. But they're in the list because they made a lasting physical contribution to the game, or the use of their content requires credit as part of their terms of use.

We know of the scroll/zoom problem. The map zoom function is a relatively new feature and requires some tweaking. It's currently designed to zoom out to show the full width of the map, but not the height. This is purely because of the current UI layout, which may be changing in future as features are added, changed, or removed over time. One thing that's being added in the next update for instance includes a clock near the top-right of the screen. But anyways, Mike knows of the problem so a fix might be coming in future.

Keep throwing the comments our way if you have any more.

One more thing, it would be great if you could use your right and left arrow to skip through the systems while in building mode.
Is it possible to put the game on your secundary display (I have two monitors and would like it to be on the secundary, alternately, minimizing the game window would be great.

In Holland there is a saying which translates in : one fool can ask more questions then 10 wisemen can answer...
So call me the fool and just ignore me if I am asking or suggesting too much

Cursor movement has also been asked for before. I asked for it.

I don't know if there's an option to show the game in a second display. If there is, then it would be a computer, rather than game, option. The game CAN be run in a windowed mode though. Load up the game, then click on options. In the first tab (Graphics) DEselect the first option, "Run In Full Screen Mode". The game will then switch to a windowed view.

Keep asking and i'll keep answering. It's your guess as to which one of us is therefore the fool.