The windowed view is good enough indeed, that way I can drag it to the other screen, great.

One other thing I like is that when you are the last player in a multiplayer game, you get the option to continue playing, very nice.

In regards to the cursor movement being asked for before... great minds think alike (or are we just lazy)

Is there a way, or will there be a way, to set different Tech levels for the empire of your choice and the other empires?
Is there a way, or will there be a way, to controll more than 1 empire (either in multiplayer or single player mode)

You are probably aware that several structures are still missing the picture icon, if not, would it help if I mention them here as I see them?

In respect to one of my earlier comments, the list with buildable structures is of course increasing as your techlevel rises (didn't notice that at first as I cranked the tech level up to max in my first couple of tries )

How does the population actually grow on a system and are there any ways to stimulate growth (my biggest frustration is unsufficient labour forces in the beginning of the game)

darn I feel like such a nag with all these comments I still L O V E this game though, it runs so much smoother than the orriginal Micropose version, it looks a hell of a lot better and that for a game that is still work in progress...

Yet another "like" the devision in to quadrants, Klingon, Federation, Romulan and Cardassion spread over Alpha and Beta, Founders in a seperate quarter and one available for expansion
I haven't encountered any wormholes and/or Borg yet though, are they in BotF2 as well?

Just noticed something, I am playing a single player game, Klingon, small galaxy, few stars, few planets, use the F12 to peek which planets (dilithium) to colonize first and there seem to be popping up additional star systems at random (between two turns/peeks)
Also I noticed several star systems with just asteroid fields or even just a sun (no planets or anything) is this by design?
Finally I noticed that there are two systems named Ledonia (1 with 1 L class planet and 1 with 1 L and 1 O class planet)

All the stars and planets orbiting those stars are randomly generated, if you set few planets then there is highly possible that you will encounter star systems without planets or with only asteroid fields, about Ledonia, that is a bug, possibly in the random generators.

The Borg isn't implemented yet, it won't be playable race, and will probably be a part of random events system, and the wormholes haven't been implemented yet.

Hope this answers your questions.

Yep it does, thanks for your answers.
Why was it configured so you can choose the amount of planets? Is there a benefit to have few planets or is it meant as an extra difficulty?

Umm...there is already a way to set your own tech level. Try checking the options again the next time you start a new game. As for setting the levels of the other empires, I don't know if Mike plans to add this or not. It's not been asked before to my knowledge, and i'm not sure if/how the game decides what tech level the other empires should be if you set your own level to a non-default level. I guess we'll need to ask him about that.

...

If you see structures that are missing their images, don't worry about it; a very small number of game images (Not just structures, but minor race images as well) are incorrectly named so aren't displayed ingame. The vast majority of missing images are missing though because - at the time of the last update - we didn't have images for those structures. But the last update was back in May, and Zeleni and Vjeko have made a gargantuan effort in filling the gaps since then. And not only that, they've also replaced many of the BOTF-derived images too, reducing the potential chances of a legal dispute in future over use of such images. In fact, many of the images they have made or acquired are photorealistic beauties - your jaw is going to drop when the next update comes. Matress certainly loves them.

But yes, we do know that there are still missing structures - in fact I have a thread dedicated to what images are CURRENTLY missing. I only updated the thread three days ago. You can find the post Here.

...

The population growth rate calculations are more complex than you'd think. First off, each race - both empires and minors - have a preferred (Ideal) planet type. For the Federation and Romulans, this is Terran, for the Klingons and Dominion this is Jungle, and for the Cardassians this is Desert. The Dominion actually have two ideal types because their Home system race is Founders, but their 'colonists' are Jem'Hadar. The Founders prefer Rogue planets, the Jem'Hadar prefer Jungles.

So if a race colonises a system that includes an ideal planet, that planet will be capable supporting a huge population and will grow quickly. As the planet type moves further away from the ideal however, the maximum population size and growth rate will reduce.

So say you have a system full of Desert planets. If the system is colonised by the Federation, it would have a small maximum population size and a low growth rate. but if that same system was colonised by the Cardassians, it would have a huge population size and high growth rate. So high-value systems actually vary based on the race you play as.

This difference in ideal will also affect terraforming. Whilst terraforming hasn't yet been implemented, we bascally intend for the planets to physically change class when terraformed, one stage at a time. Each race will terraform towards their preference as well, so the Federation would terraform towards Terran, whilst the Cardassians would terraform towards Deserts. There would however be limits on the number of times an individual planet could be terraformed to prevent situations where the galaxy ended up having only one planet type.

So then, on to growth rates. The game calaculates the physical growth rate by taking the total current population size of a system, then adding to it the percentage growth rate of the system. So say you have a system with 100 population and a growth rate of 10%. On the next turn it would gain 10 population, since 10% of 100 is 10, which takes the population up to 110. On the next turn, the system would gain 11 population, since 10% of 110 is 11, taking the population up to 121, and so on. So small systems have low growth rates, whilst big systems grow much faster.

But there ARE ways to increase the population growth rate...but they're currently buggy. Once you've met the tech requirements, you will unlock the ability to build special structures that provide bonus population growth rate. These structures include Purification Works, Advanced Irrigation Systems, Atmospheric Condensers, and Ice-Breaking Stations, amongst others. The structures are planet type specific, so for instance you can only build Advanced Irrigation Networks in systems that have at least one Barren planet.

...

Wormholes aren't in the game yet. But they are planned. Wormholes will come in two varieties just as they did in the shows - stable Wormholes and unstable Wormholes. Stable Wormholes will be what you're looking for, as they will always take your ships from point A to point B, potentially providing a major shortcut. However, some stable Wormholes will actually destroy your ships - because their end points are off the edge of the map, stranding your ships in unknown space. Unstable Wormholes on he other hand may shift their endpoints. One turn they may lead to point B, but the next turn they may lead to point C. You won't get any warning that it is happening either, it will just happen.

I've also got some Wormhole-related random events. Whether they can be programmed in or not remains to be seen, but they include the random creation of a Wormhole, or a previously stable Wormhole becoming stable.

Same goes for the Borg, they're in as a random event only.




The full random events list can be found Here.


...

I have no idea about the randomly appearing systems. It might be a random glitch, or it might be something worse. Can you try starting a new game and see if you can make it happen again?

...

The game is designed to produce systems randomly, and that includes producing systems with no planets or systems with just Asteroid fields. Whilst this can be annoying for some players, it also makes the game more realistic, since not all systems would have fully formed planets. The Galaxy generated does need some more tweaking to try and reduce the incidence of this happening though, and Mike has already been informed of this in the past.

...

The creation of two identical systems is due to a mistake on my part. I've rewritten the file that contains al of the system names, but some of the system names are duplicated, resulting in two systems. The fact that they had the same planets is just a coincidence.

The next update will include a new star system name list that is both considerably larger (Allowing for system name variation even on gigantic maps), and doesn't contain any duplicated names.

...

When Vjeko mentioned setting the number of planets, he was referring to the editor that (Previously) came with the game. I say previously because Mike is working on building a new editor from scratch so didn't bother updating the existing editor when he released the May update. This means the editor was no longer compatible with the May update, so he removed it from the download.

The editor is what allows us to add in minor races, special structures, and whatnot to the game. When you create a minor race, you're given the option to define their star system, right down to the number of planets, how big each planet is, what class each planet is, and whether there are any special bonuses in the system, such as raw materials, energy, Dilithium, or food.

The minor races star systems, where possible, have all be preset by me based on available canon information. So say that we know a particular minor race comes from a star system with a white star and three planet, one of which is Terran and one of which is a Gas Giant, then that's exactly what i've given that race. Where a specific detail is unknown, then we've told the game to randomly generate that detail, so in the above example, where there is no information about the third planet in that minor races system, the game would randomly generate a planet. So whilst two of the planets would always be the same in every game, the third planet may be a tiny Jungle in one game, but a Giant Desert in the next.

[/end of uber post.]

You asked on the previous page of posts who was the biggest fool, talking about yourself in the third person is not a good idea....



.....even denzil knows that! Then getting borderline offensive, you are from Wales so that automatically gives you fool points

Its interesting popping by every so often to see how the game is shaping up

Matress speaks in the third person all of the time. Because Matress is a personality all of his own. If you look closely, you'll even see that he's celebrating the new year.

And do not insult the motherland. For she is a green and pleasant land, inhabited by sheep and dragons.

That's exactly what I meant, I did notice you can set the techlevel, however for as far as I can see the techlevel is than set the same for all races(in the orriginal you could set the techlevel for all races indendently)


Thanks for the enlightenment, good to know which planets to aim for with which race :-)


That sounds very cool, can hardly wait for that to become available.


haven't seen it more than once, if it does happen again I will let you know.


In regards to the minor races, will they be starting to build ships by themselves and will the player be able to controll those ships when the player has either taken over the minor race system or formed an affiliation with the minor race(s)?
And once you have formed an affiliation with them, can you instruct them to build their own special ships for you instead of having them build the major race ships?



It was indeed a long long long post, but with a lot of nice information, so thanks for all the typing.
I took the liberty to shorten it a bit, hope you don't mind.

Please remember that my random events were originally written to cover everything that could potentially make it into the game, not to be a list of what *will* be in the game. The Borg will likely end up working as I described in the random, but the creation of formal anti-Borg alliances with the AI part is unlikely.

The issue has been reported before, people just haven't been able to replicate it which is why I asked. If/when it happens, it seems to be one-off random glitches, rather than evidence of a bug, and since it seems to be glitches rather than bugs, we haven't got a clue what the cause is.

Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: roughly a third of the minor races will essentially act as mini-empires. They will be capable of expanding and colonising multiple star systems, and will build their own fleets. Examples include the Vulcans, the Ferengi, and the Kazon.

Another third of the minor races will be able to grow, but they will expand much more slowly and less aggressively. They will have fewer ships, and they ones they have will spend the majority of their time defending rather than attacking or exploring. Examples include the Bajorans, the Dosi, and the Gorn.

The remaining third will not be able to build ships, and therefore will not be able to explore or expand. Examples include the Antedeans, the Ullians, and the Akaali.

There is a question over whether you will be able to build minor race ships once they've joined you though. Some people want it, others don't. Some programming hurdles also need to be overcome *if* it is implemented as well.

It would be nice if all other races would at least be far more open for alliances as soon as the borg show up, but it's a lot of programming I'd imagine.

That sounds very good, I always liked to feed the minor races money in the orriginal game to see them expand and build ships.


I would like to be able to build minor race ships especially when some of these ships would have far different specs compared to the major race ships.

One thing I always hated when playing the old game as Federation, was that no matter how hard you tried to keep everybody happy, moral would always slide down, resulting in sabotage and disgruntled people, whereas the Klingon empire was always far more easy to satisfie, just declare war to all and everyone and they would be happy

haven't tried this in BOTF2 though.

What about Minor ships buildable only in minor systems, it would be like special minor structures.

Yep that was actually what I meant, e.g. playing Klingon, having the Ferengi join and then being able to build Ferengi ships on Feringinar (and only on Ferenginar) is what I would love.

I just noticed that if you accidentally click a ship that is building a structure and then deselect the ship again, the entire built (96%) is gone.
In addition/relation to that it would be nice if you can deselect a ship by clicking it again rather than deselecting it by sending it to the system that it is in, thus resulting in above issue.

Planetary assault has not yet been implemented (in other words I can declare war but can not destroy and/or take over a system right?
Is it possible that some games will not have all major races, I am currently playing a game where there are no Cardies.

That is probably because the random empire placement system couldn't find a suitable place for cardassia, but when that happend to me the game crushed, so I'm not sure, all I know that the game has sometimes problems with Cardassia.

Feeding money won't work quite as well as it used to. Races like the Vulcans might actually be offended by your illogical acts of bribery.

As a rule of thumb, the ships of the minor races are less powerful than those of the Empires. That doesn't mean they're all weak and pathetic though. Several minor race ships can actually survive one turn in a one-on-one battle against a Borg Armored Cube (In the game). We know this due to an (Unreleased) combat spreadsheet that Zulnak made a long time ago. If you're reading this mate, yes I still have it and use it.

That's interesting. I've never actually seen the Federation drop below Loyal in an unmodded game, unless I specifically go out of my way on declaring war and losing battles. 9 turns out of 10 I find I get bonuses because the people love me so much. Obviously it's just me.

Morale in Supremacy is going to change though. We've got plans to radically overhaul the system, and we think it's going to make things much more realistic and stable. What precisely the change is though, we haven't announced yet, so you'll just have to wait and see.

This is perfectly doable already Vjeko...with a catch. If you set the minor race ships as buildable in minor race systems when an empire controls that system, you end up being able to build them in all other systems as well. It also massively increases the size of the game database, slowing down processing time. That's what the programming issues that I referred to in my previous post were.

Interesting, this bug hasn't been mentioned before, so thanks for that. I would recommend that you stop building ALL stations in the game for the time being though - building them causes the game to crash due to a bug that was introduced in the last update.

No, combat and planetary assault are not yet implemented. Declaring war is therefore pointless at the moment...

No, this isn't possible to my knowledge. So why it's happened to you i'm not sure. Could you attach a copy of your save game so we can check it out?

That said, there *is* a problem with the Cardassians, as Vjeko said. When designing a map, the map generator must follow a basic set of rules. Empires must be a certain minimum distance from each other, and this distance increases as the map size increases. This prevents empires overlapping each other and gives empires room to grow at least a little bit before making first contact. However, the Alpha Quadrant is crowded with minor races, and already has another empire in it (The Federation), so it's difficult for the game to create maps that follow the rules. This becomes more of an issue as the map size gets smaller and more crowded. It's entirely possible your game simply wasn't able to create a map that met the rules, so it kicked out the Cardassians. I've not heard of it happening before though, and the game is supposed to regenerate the map if empire and race placements that meet the rules is impossible.

The Ferengi probably would like the money though

I'd imagine that some minor races could have slight advantages that the major ships do not have (e.g. some rase could build cloackable ships which could be nice for federation who would otherwise never be able to obtain cloackable ships)

well it could be because I always used the -Mudd to get some more money

that I will

I just finished building a Klingon base station, it's up and running. I will attach the save game.

So I noticed

attached, it's the same save game in which I have a Klingon base station.


It is indeed a small map, however none minor races and the game did not crash so far.

Yes they will, but you'll have to figure out the other not-so-obvious races.

Yes, some minor race ships will have cloaking devices. But they're few and far between. Few races had them in the shows.

...But you can try cloaking the Federation Scout. It's got a cloaking device for testing purposes. It'll be removed once we know the code works.

Well that's odd. I thought the bug affected ALL stations. I guess it doesn't. Don't build the Federation stations then, or save the game before you do.

Thanks for the save file, i'll pass it into Mike.

Will there be an option to switch built to automatic? Especially for all the updates to excisiting constructions this would be very nice (saves a whole lot of mouse clicking work )

There will actually be something a bit more powerful than that. Rather than a simple "auto" build switch, you'll be able to enable a "System Viceroy" AI to manage manage various aspects of a colony (including but not limited to new construction). You'll be able to specify a "focus area" (or "role") for each system (e.g. Ship Construction, Research, Balanced, etc.) to influence what the AI builds and/or how it allocates labor.

I understand the answer to be yes. Mike has talked about being able to put the "maintenance" development work on auto.

System roles are a great idea.
BTW Mike, I suppose that other "project" is a no-go, right? No time for it I guess?

Not sure which of the other projects you're referring to... a hint maybe?

That patch we talked about It was last year, been a while

He did spend 4 months slaving in his office. Cut him some slack. That technically only makes the update 2 months overdue.

Ah, LE:I. Hmm... I really would like to work on that, but given how little time I've had to even work on Supremacy, it's probably better that I just focus on this project. There just aren't enough hours in the day, sadly . I've also become rather unsettled after reading about the history and failure of Duke Nukem Forever and 3D Realms. Some of the parallels are frightening, so I'm going to start approaching Supremacy more aggressively. That means finalizing and freezing the feature set ASAP, and scrapping some features that are just too much extra work.

Basically, the "wouldn't ____ be cool" blue-sky days need to come to an end. We'll need another brainstorming sprint to beef up some of the late-game stuff, and after that any new ideas will basically be tabled for "Supremacy 2".

Today or tomorrow I want to start on a written specification for the game where all the features and game mechanics are laid out in writing. It'll take a while, but the game is complex enough that even I have a hard time keeping everything straight in my head.

Well, wouldn't mirror universe expansion be cool?

Nah, just kidding, I agree with you.

I want an Armada-style 3D map.

I guess diplomatic relationships with alien entities falls under this category too .