Re: Trekwar 0.4.0 Single Player Pre-Alpha Testing
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klogd
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined: 24 Apr 2009, 09:24 Posts: 214 Location: Norway
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Iceman wrote: Ok, this is really strange. I'm playing in 2 different machines, and it feels like I'm playing 2 different games. When I log in on one machine, the fleets are not in the same position as they were when I logged out in the other. And it's not like they're in adjacent sectors, as if when a couple of turns are missed. It's completely different positions...
Can someone confirm? That sounds very odd, almost impossible. Each time you start a new client and log in (and each time there is a new turn) the client throws away ALL of it's data, getting the complete game state from the server. Are you absolutely sure it's like this? playing on different computers should not make any difference.
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02 Jul 2011, 00:09 |
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Iceman
Admiral
Joined: 14 Jan 2009, 10:17 Posts: 2042
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I'm not absolutely sure (I was thinking the colony ship issue I mentioned could have something to do with it), but I'll check.
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At the risk of repeating myself and sounding pushy, here's some thoughts (and recaps) about how I'd see a few things (those mentioned above) working:
- system size (#planets) would be reduced (max 8 or so), and for each planet type the #slots would equal #pop (Terran would have 12 pop and 12 slots - it could be reduced a bit by a mountain range or a sea); each slot would only be unlocked (for construction) when there was enough pop for that to happen, and in case of pop loss buildings would be shut off
- deuterium production in a system would be greatly reduced, and the Hydrogen Extractor (high deuterium production) would be available at tech level 5 or so (to support mid to late game fleets), making nebulae and deuterium silos more important
- colony ships would have a fixed set of initial buildings (the bare minimum) and pop, and no troops, and they'd cost pop (the amount they create) to build; with slots being unlocked by pop (1st bullet point above), this amount of pop would have to be enough to provide space for all the initial buildings, which would also have to be placed in a certain way (not randomly)
- colonization time would depend on the number and type of planets in the system, instead of being a fixed amount per turn; the more colonization modules, and the higher their level (which already depends on Biotech level), the lower that time (as explained in a previous post); maybe explore the possibility of having more than one colony ship in a fleet colonizing a system, for more initial buildings and pop and lower time
- troops would be created (a fixed amount) with Military Outposts, which would cost pop to build - troops costing pop to recruit with the automatic recruitment the game uses would be bad, as each turn you'd be getting pop from growth rate and "spending" it on recruitment
- food would be replaced (?) with something representing Happiness/Habitability/Pollution(lack of) - farms/weather grids/etc would increase it, industry/power/etc would decrease it; this could then affect pop growth rate, and morale (not sure if it is for troops only?) [and taxes if they'd be implemented]
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As for the refueling issue, the player, if up to it, could move the ship to refuel to the tanker fleet (or create a fleet just for the 2 ships) and an order would be available that would transfer fuel from the tanker to the ship. It'd take a bit of work but it's better than nothing. The tanker should always keep enough fuel to return to a friendly star system of course. If more than one ship is being refueled and there isn't enough fuel to refill them all, fuel is split between all ships so that they have the same final amount of fuel (not according to capacity).
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02 Jul 2011, 11:19 |
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klogd
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined: 24 Apr 2009, 09:24 Posts: 214 Location: Norway
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Don't be afraid to sound pushy, this is exactly the kind of feedback I wanted I might not have responded to ALL your points, but I've made notes of them and I'll be going through this thread and the survey that will be sent out next weekend or so, before I define the tasks required for the next alpha version and doing some redesigning.
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02 Jul 2011, 11:26 |
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Iceman
Admiral
Joined: 14 Jan 2009, 10:17 Posts: 2042
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Ok, I'll keep firing away. I might have some observations about the ship design debate, but I have to check it better first. I've edited the post above a bit in some of the bullet points.
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02 Jul 2011, 11:49 |
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HDYST
Crewman
Joined: 22 Jul 2010, 02:39 Posts: 21
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I applied the patch, the game behaves the same, only the exception text changed: http://pastebin.com/Hp3H1LQ0klogd wrote: 2) If not then you might have to deactivate sound (change "sfx-enabled" to "false" in the properties.xml file) This seems to work klogd wrote: 3) Install the official sun jdk, and use this to run the game (you can download it to a directory like /home/jdk-1.6.0 then specify that java executable when starting the game: /home/jdk-1.6.0-blabla/bin/java -classpath .............. Yeah, this should fix the problem... But I'll try to work a little more with the openJDK...
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02 Jul 2011, 14:40 |
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klogd
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined: 24 Apr 2009, 09:24 Posts: 214 Location: Norway
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Never tried it with OpenJDK, Guess I'll have to do that for next alpha test
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02 Jul 2011, 14:55 |
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Komodo
Crewman
Joined: 27 Jun 2011, 20:28 Posts: 21
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Testing Progress Report I'm finally drafting up a report here from all the notes I've taken so far. Being how there are so many bugs to report, I've found that some seem to have a common element to them. I'll also make some observations here, and some suggestions. Finally, there's a checklist of finished objectives. Bugs:1) Colony ship sometimes disappears after colonising a planet. Either it's a constant feature, or not, unknown. Suggestion- it should be stricken from the ship list due cannibalising it for the new colony 2) At least one planet was not allowed to be colonised (error message as such) 3) Initially, logging off of the server halted turn progress. However, this is no longer so- as I write this it is over 5000 turns and progresses after logging off. 4) Ship Designer- could not save a template until a warp core was selected to be installed, even if it was removed afterward. Makes sense not to be able to save a useless ship, but still can do so. 5) Game will lock up if an order is made during turn change 6) Game will lock up if a new option is available, and used for the first time (example- Bunker2, Weather Control) 7) Game lock up on demolish power plant (only one instance?) many of these types of lockups happen, but cannot be repeated a second time. 8) Turn advance halt on trying to overmaximise mini-map. Large Intel map blanks out except for a small region. Other functions still accessible. Used option to log onto server- was able to do so, turns had advanced, but still frozen in display. This also happened after first battle with Lursa, but was able to re-log successfully. A later instance was caused by unknown factor. 9) Game lockup on "Hurry Production" order- seen only on first (or second) building turn- may be recurring- needs to be verified. 10) Game locked up when 2 ships were added to the build queue in shipyard (uncertain if recurring) 11) Game lockup when ship was ordered twice during the same turn to move to another fleet 12) Game lockup when a large number of course orders were given to different ships in same turn (unconfirmed) 13) Cannot invade system. I created troop ships for this occasion, with no result at all 14) Error in troop transfer from planet to ship- message states "Transfer to planet name" instead of from planet 15) Final battle with Chang resulted in major error- screen flashes "Fetching Data From Server" message every 2 seconds, turn countdown often shows negative numbers, no resolution after numerous attempts to re-log onto server (Info- his fleet consisted of 7 battleships and 5 heavy cruisers, as well as a colony ship and a scout present. My fleet consisted of 1 scout, 2 colony ships, 1 light freighter, and 16 Galaxy class ships) (Note 2- I did send a previous fleet before this, consisting of 6 Consitution and 10 Excelsiors, which was utterly defeated) Observations:1) No indication of mining order given to ship during same turn, but does the order next turn 2) No indication of colonisation order given to ship during same turn, but does the order next turn 3) No indication of invade system order given to ship during same turn (doesn't seem to work, either) 4) No indication of decommission ship order given, does not do order the next turn 5) No indication of self destruct order given, does not do order the next turn 6) No numerical indication of ship course order during same turn 7) If you hold a build drop during a turn change, but wait until turn change is complete, game will not crash 8) Build queue allows current build to be moved up or down, but continues at top on next turn. However, a switch will be allowed if it is still on the first turn of its build 9) "Hurry Production" order was initially only available for ships, but noted later that it was also available for buildings 10) Signing onto chat showed 5 instances of my account in later stages, also when text is sent, there is also 5 instances of that text displayed in the chat viewer Suggestions / Comments:1) I like the "Hurry Production" feature 2) I would expect there to be a "Decolonise system" option available. This is subject to later features and limitations, I'm assuming 3) I understand that Factories increase industrial capability, and decreases build times. However, other than improving build times for ships and more buildings, at this point they are the only product being produced 4) The music gets annoying very quickly, but that's common with every game 5) The ship piloting system is functional, but it's also somewhat clumsy, and confusing if overlaps other ship courses. I'd like to see ship functions available in a mini popup right with the ship, rather than go across the screen todo it. Also- windows often tend to block course destinations and need to be moved, or the map scrolled in order to plot them, especially a longer flight 6) Ship information window is handy, but needs improvement. Installed features need to be displayed, such as bussard collectors, and cargo space- especially if partially full. Suggest changing "hit points" to "hull" (??) 7) "Cost to build" information is odd- some ships have different rates, while others have none at all. Not implemented, I assume 8) I realise this is in early testing phases, but will there be some kind of limitation to ship building? At this point, there is no limit to the number of ships that can be built at once 9) Turn Report works well and is informative. Emergency situations would be better addressed if they were made more apparent, especially if one forgets to check the log 10) When building ships, the "Space Dock" box should be labelled "Ship Yard", in my opinion. It would be easier just to click the type you want and confirm build rather than dragging it 11) Map grid co-ords will be an important term to understand and employ. Clicking on empty grids should at least show the grid co-ords, if nothing else Other than all the bugs, and shortcomings, I must say that at this point it's a strong build. There was a learning curve involved, but that's expected. It would have been easier if a good tutorial were available. However, once the functions have been discovered, and how they relate to other factors in game, it's pretty easy to do what you need to do for the most part. I would enjoy playing this with much slower turn rates, in order to maximise your capabilities during each turn. This also limits how much one can do over time as well. There is much room for improvement here, which includes a certain ruleset that governs a large number of players on the same server, more features than currently present. Even with the bugs and shortcomings, I did enjoy playing this game in its present condition. Finally! My current Goal status: Colonize at least 4 new systems (5 total). DONE Colonize at least 9 new systems (10 total) DONE Collect and return minerals from an asteroid belt DONE Reach a lvl 5 technology DONE Reach 3 lvl 5 technologies DONE Reach a lvl 10 technology DONE Unlock the Raptor/Oberth class ship DONE Unlock the K'vort/Constitution class ship DONE Unlock the Vor'cha/Galaxy class ship DONE Unlock the Civillian Barge class ship DONE Explored about 25% of the map DONE Explored about 50% of the map DONE Explored almost 100% of the map DONE Destroyed Lursa's fleet DONE Destroyed Gowron's fleet DONE Destroyed Chang's fleet (the one in his star system) FAILED, HUNG UP Destroyed Chang's fleet (the one positioned somewhere else) DONE Invaded Lursa's system UNABLE Invaded Gowron's system UNABLE Invaded Changs's system Built a ship with a speed of at least 40. Built a ship that can refuel from a nebula. Built a ship with at least 6 sensor modules. Gotten a star system population to about 100% UNCERTAIN
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02 Jul 2011, 22:37 |
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klogd
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined: 24 Apr 2009, 09:24 Posts: 214 Location: Norway
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Thank's for the feedback, I'll respond to most points (but taking notice of all), some have been mentioned before, and others will just be added as bug reports (ship designer warp core thingy, game freezes). Komodo wrote: 1) Colony ship sometimes disappears after colonising a planet. Either it's a constant feature, or not, unknown. Suggestion- it should be stricken from the ship list due cannibalising it for the new colony 2) At least one planet was not allowed to be colonised (error message as such)
Colony ships should always disappear (maybe just 1 disappears if there is a fleet with 2 or more colony ships currently). Which error message did you get? If one ship is colonizing the starsystem already, clicking colonize on another fleet (or even the same ship that is colonizing) will give the "system is already being colonized" message. Komodo wrote: 4) Ship Designer- could not save a template until a warp core was selected to be installed, even if it was removed afterward. Makes sense not to be able to save a useless ship, but still can do so. Ships require a minimum speed (think it's 2 or 3) to be a valid design. Never tried removing a warp core afterwards, will try and reproduce it tomorrow =) Komodo wrote: 13) Cannot invade system. I created troop ships for this occasion, with no result at all Did you transfer troops from your own starsystem to the troop transport ship before moving the ship to the enemy system? Komodo wrote: 15) Final battle with Chang resulted in major error- screen flashes "Fetching Data From Server" message every 2 seconds, turn countdown often shows negative numbers, no resolution after numerous attempts to re-log onto server So you were never again able to log in after that battle? Seems space to space battle is a bit more wonky than I had hoped. But it was after all the least tested feature of the pre-alpha :/ Komodo wrote: 4) No indication of decommission ship order given, does not do order the next turn 5) No indication of self destruct order given, does not do order the next turn
Not implemented yet. Komodo wrote: 10) Signing onto chat showed 5 instances of my account in later stages, also when text is sent, there is also 5 instances of that text displayed in the chat viewer Really, this is interesting, and would explain lots of stuff (especially that the turns keeps going even when "logged out"). How did you log out? alt-f4, or clicking the close window button? Would you say that the number of instances 5, was somewhat close to the number of times the client froze and had to be killed with the task manager? Komodo wrote: 5)I'd like to see ship functions available in a mini popup right with the ship I'll probably add this, or keyboard shortcuts for all of the commands. In addition to the order buttons. Komodo wrote: 8) I realise this is in early testing phases, but will there be some kind of limitation to ship building? At this point, there is no limit to the number of ships that can be built at once
Number of ships you can have is only limited by how fast you can build them, so in theory there is no limit.. Haven't decided yet if there should be a limit (for example, you could only have maybe 10 ships per starsystem you own). Komodo wrote: 11) Map grid co-ords will be an important term to understand and employ. Clicking on empty grids should at least show the grid co-ords, if nothing else
Yes, I'll definitely add that to the new user interface.
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03 Jul 2011, 01:31 |
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Komodo
Crewman
Joined: 27 Jun 2011, 20:28 Posts: 21
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klogd wrote: Colony ships should always disappear (maybe just 1 disappears if there is a fleet with 2 or more colony ships currently). Which error message did you get? If one ship is colonizing the starsystem already, clicking colonize on another fleet (or even the same ship that is colonizing) will give the "system is already being colonized" message. I've only had a colony ship disappear twice, at the beginning. There was no other ship colonising the system, the error was something like "Error- This system is already being colonised". This only happened with one system, and even after 1000+ turns, it still said it when I tried later, but it never was actually colonised at any point. klogd wrote: Did you transfer troops from your own starsystem to the troop transport ship before moving the ship to the enemy system? I did indeed, to no effect :( klogd wrote: So you were never again able to log in after that battle? Seems space to space battle is a bit more wonky than I had hoped. But it was after all the least tested feature of the pre-alpha :/ Unfortunately, it's still unresolved- every time I log in now, it's looping at that point with no turn advance. The battles I set up previously worked quick & painless klogd wrote: Really, this is interesting, and would explain lots of stuff (especially that the turns keeps going even when "logged out"). How did you log out? alt-f4, or clicking the close window button? Would you say that the number of instances 5, was somewhat close to the number of times the client froze and had to be killed with the task manager? Many, many times I had to use Task Manager to kill it since it was locked up. Much more than 5 LOL. However, there were fewer instances when the game was still functional, but the turns didn't advance. Perhaps that's how it got to that point... So, currently, I can still log onto the server, but it's caught in some kind of loop. Perhaps it would be best to reset my account, and I can start fresh again...
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03 Jul 2011, 03:06 |
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klogd
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined: 24 Apr 2009, 09:24 Posts: 214 Location: Norway
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Komodo wrote: So, currently, I can still log onto the server, but it's caught in some kind of loop. Perhaps it would be best to reset my account, and I can start fresh again... I restarted the server and logged in to it fine, your fleet attacked Chang and ############. Server did not lock up. Then I restored it to before I started playing with it, and stopped your two attack fleets. So when you log in you can move them into Chang's system
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03 Jul 2011, 11:13 |
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Iceman
Admiral
Joined: 14 Jan 2009, 10:17 Posts: 2042
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This is what I got on a new colony:
Farm Factory 3x Power Lab Shipyard Deuterium Plant Ore Refinery
3x Power is definitely too much, the Ore Refinery is probably not a basic structure for a new colony, and neither the Shipyard.
The system had 8 planets + 2 GGs. Initial pop was 0,60 from what I could tell, for the 8 planets; but clicking on each individual I think each planet started with 100 pop (0.1). Also, they all were getting the same pop increase each turn (even though the displayed growth rates were different).
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03 Jul 2011, 12:59 |
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HDYST
Crewman
Joined: 22 Jul 2010, 02:39 Posts: 21
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After some more tries, I think the game is not playable on openJDK in its curent state... Mostly because of freezes and unresponsive UI... I'll try with the official JRE today or tomorrow
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03 Jul 2011, 15:18 |
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Komodo
Crewman
Joined: 27 Jun 2011, 20:28 Posts: 21
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klogd wrote: I restarted the server and logged in to it fine, your fleet attacked Chang and ############. Server did not lock up. Then I restored it to before I started playing with it, and stopped your two attack fleets. So when you log in you can move them into Chang's system Thanks! The plan was to move in the battle fleet, then if it was successful, move in the invasion fleet to try planet invasion again. So, I was able to log in successfully, and ordered the fleet into that grid. It moved in, and BLECCHH it started looping again :( This is a screenshot: I tried to move the fleet out again (not easy to do!) to no effect. Perhaps there's some kind of cap somewhere limiting the number of ships somehow...? If you can restore it again, I'll whittle down the number some. I was actually thinking of past experiences here, adding in smaller ships to draw the fire of the enemy ships, giving my own a better chance of getting some hits in. Humour me now, lol. I know very little about how this works I assume you are able to log in and pick up where I left off. It sounds like you did so, and saw no problems, but reset it back a few turns for me. But before doing so, you were able to see how that battle resolved, with turns still moving forward. All assumptions on my part. So if that truly is the case, would it be a problem on my end, somehow?
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03 Jul 2011, 15:55 |
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klogd
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined: 24 Apr 2009, 09:24 Posts: 214 Location: Norway
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Komodo wrote: Perhaps there's some kind of cap somewhere limiting the number of ships somehow...? If you can restore it again, I'll whittle down the number some. I was actually thinking of past experiences here, adding in smaller ships to draw the fire of the enemy ships, giving my own a better chance of getting some hits in. Humour me now, lol. I know very little about how this works I assume you are able to log in and pick up where I left off. It sounds like you did so, and saw no problems, but reset it back a few turns for me. But before doing so, you were able to see how that battle resolved, with turns still moving forward. All assumptions on my part. So if that truly is the case, would it be a problem on my end, somehow? There is not really a cap on how many ships can be in combat.. But I've seen this error before, the combat loop not exiting properly.. Don't know what's causing it yet I've restored it. Adding more smaller ships should not matter, as the combat worked fine when I did it (with your user on your server - before resetting it). When the server is stuck in a loop like that it won't save it's turn (so I just log in to the server and shut down the game server, then it starts up with it's latest save (it currently saves every 5 turns)). Don't see how it can be a problem on your part. Your client just tells the fleet to move to the location, it has nothing what so ever to do with how the combat is done. I've started 3 servers for you, on 3 different port numbers. Your regular port number, the next two port numbers.. So if your first was 25051 next would be 25052 and 25053. You can try it on all 3 and tell me what happens.
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03 Jul 2011, 16:29 |
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klogd
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined: 24 Apr 2009, 09:24 Posts: 214 Location: Norway
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Komodo wrote: Perhaps there's some kind of cap somewhere limiting the number of ships somehow...? If you can restore it again, I'll whittle down the number some. I was actually thinking of past experiences here, adding in smaller ships to draw the fire of the enemy ships, giving my own a better chance of getting some hits in. Humour me now, lol. I know very little about how this works I assume you are able to log in and pick up where I left off. It sounds like you did so, and saw no problems, but reset it back a few turns for me. But before doing so, you were able to see how that battle resolved, with turns still moving forward. All assumptions on my part. So if that truly is the case, would it be a problem on my end, somehow? There is not really a cap on how many ships can be in combat.. But I've seen this error before, the combat loop not exiting properly.. Don't know what's causing it yet I've restored it. Adding more smaller ships should not matter, as the combat worked fine when I did it (with your user on your server - before resetting it). When the server is stuck in a loop like that it won't save it's turn (so I just log in to the server and shut down the game server, then it starts up with it's latest save (it currently saves every 5 turns)). Don't see how it can be a problem on your part. Your client just tells the fleet to move to the location, it has nothing what so ever to do with how the combat is done. I've started 3 servers for you, on 3 different port numbers. Your regular port number, and the two following port numbers.. So if your first was 25051 next would be 25052 and 25053. You can try it on all 3 and tell me what happens. Try and edit the client.bat file... it says "start javaw ......" remove the world "start" so that it says "javaw ......." And take a screenshot if there suddenly is a lot of strange text on the black terminal, that looks like error codesIf it fails again, could you please e-mail me your client.log file that should be in the game directory.
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03 Jul 2011, 16:33 |
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skeeter
Klingon Honor Guard
Joined: 22 Apr 2005, 01:00 Posts: 1527 Location: UK
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Sorry i havent read much of this topic just a few bits at the start. Anyhow this is how im finding it after 5 mins lol.
Logged in to the beta and turns were going so fast and i had no idea where to start as theirs not much info i could find as to what things are, how to do things etc. So was wondering if someone could write up a short tutorial on how to do a few things to get me going.
Found a somewhat tutorial in the email i got. So far i figured how to now move ships, colonise a system. I was trying to view a system and it just is confusing what im supose to be doing. I duno what my food/industry/researc/intel is overall for the whole system so duno what im lacking or in abundence. I was reading about the how to build things which in middle columne u drag to a box on the left in one of the planets, but whcih one needs what? To me trying to manage all them planets individually is too much i fear. Would be better imo if it took botf way and had 1 system one set of things to manage for that system. I know alot of us wanted to micro manage the planets individually but atm that is very confusing to do and would be very time consuming. The ui isnt intuitive enough to pull it off i fear as well.
Research wise i managed to start some bio thing off, no idea what i need it for or what each level gives u so i duno what my long term plan could be as in botf u could look in library and see what every level gave you. Maybe i overlooked something but i couldnt find anything like this. Just a brief description of what it vaguely is.
Also yeah login details, grr have to re-enter everytime i launch it. Which i think i read will be adjusted to remembering the details in next build.
Not a great fan of the overall UI, too many bold colors for my liking but thats something to talk about after functionality is fully sorted.
Oh and when dragging something to a planet it crashed/hung so had to task manage it off.
And i would love if someone could tell me what the heck to build and on what planet in the starting system. And how to find out what is needed on each planet. As frankly im at a loss as to what the heck to do in the system view lol. In botf i would just build indusry if needed, food if starvation, etc but i know nothing of what is what in a system view.
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03 Jul 2011, 23:05 |
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klogd
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined: 24 Apr 2009, 09:24 Posts: 214 Location: Norway
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You don't have to worry about what you build on specific planets, the starsystem pools all it's resources together (so farms on one planet will provide food for everyone in the system). Some structures will be planet specific later on, and give special bonuses. So, not all planets needs farms, and there is no requirements per planet.
Since food does not mean much yet, building labs and industry would be a good bet. Industry for building ships later on, labs to help research go along faster.. Power just to supply other structures with power.
I'm working on a new UI for the star system box that will be more informative and intuitive in regards to managing resources (food, power, industry, research). So far there is not many exciting structures to build (except for maybe the listening post/subspace scanner, and a shipyard).
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03 Jul 2011, 23:24 |
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klogd
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined: 24 Apr 2009, 09:24 Posts: 214 Location: Norway
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The servers will shut down in 24 hours (july 5th 18:00 GMT).
Everyone who participated should have gotten an email with the link to a survey regarding the alpha test
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04 Jul 2011, 17:20 |
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Iceman
Admiral
Joined: 14 Jan 2009, 10:17 Posts: 2042
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Crap. Hope it's not too late for some more observations:
The Deuterium Plant in new colonies might not make sense, as the system might not have Gas Giants.
Research screen ---------------
clicking around in tech boxes, some of the icons of unlocked components will disappear. Once I even had quite a few of my techs disappear momentarily (from tech level 6, 2 branches went to level 2).
tech description typos: Bio 6 - preassure -> pressure ; planets -> planet's Energy 0 - ... Energy 1 - defenseive -> defensive
Ship Design -----------
Some component icons are not centered properly in the ship slots (Warp Core, Sensor Array, etc). The level of the component is not displayed always in the same corner (lower left, upper right, etc) of the image for different components (for consistency). The Warp Core 1 doesn't have its level displayed in the icon.
Ships have 10 energy by default. A Warp Core 2 should give an aditional +10 Energy, but it only gives +8; a WC1 +3 instead of +5. It's diminishing returns, but doesn't it make the displayed component info somewhat misleading and irrelevant?
Every component (except armor) gives the ship -10 armor and +10 HPs; kind of irrelevant? Also, the armor component gives it +50 armor, and +10 HPs (by default I guess), effectively giving the ship +60 "hull" instead of 50. Shield emitters give the ship +10 shields more than they should (shield 2 should give +80, gives +90). Some components don't display their bonuses (like the Deuterium Tanks etc)
component description typos: Armor - ships -> ship's Colonization Module - equiptment -> equipment Bussard Collector - nebulas -> nebulae Impulse Drive - manouverable -> ?
The info about hulls in the "Hull info" help window doesn't match the ships' stats.
hull description typos: Miranda - destoyer -> destroyer
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04 Jul 2011, 18:56 |
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klogd
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined: 24 Apr 2009, 09:24 Posts: 214 Location: Norway
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Iceman wrote: Crap. Hope it's not too late for some more observations: Nope, won't begin planning the next alpha release for 3 weeks (Going on vacation in 1 week). And I'll always be open to suggestions along the way Iceman wrote: The Deuterium Plant in new colonies might not make sense, as the system might not have Gas Giants. Good point, those were only added to the "default new colony structures" just before I released the alpha version, as I didn't want users to have too little stuff to do early in the game. Did the same with Ore processing plant.. So that users could collect deuterium and ore quickly.. Also ore processing was very expensive, so made no sense needing to spend lots of time building ore processing to be able to get more resources to build stuff faster. Think I'll remove them from being put automatically on new systems, and instead just make them much cheaper. Iceman wrote: Ships have 10 energy by default. A Warp Core 2 should give an aditional +10 Energy, but it only gives +8; a WC1 +3 instead of +5. It's diminishing returns, but doesn't it make the displayed component info somewhat misleading and irrelevant? Strange, first one added should give +10, the second +8, etc.. I'll fix it. Maybe I'll have the component list on the right factor in the diminishing returns when displaying their properties. Iceman wrote: Every component (except armor) gives the ship -10 armor and +10 HPs; kind of irrelevant? Also, the armor component gives it +50 armor, and +10 HPs (by default I guess), effectively giving the ship +60 "hull" instead of 50. Shield emitters give the ship +10 shields more than they should (shield 2 should give +80, gives +90). Some components don't display their bonuses (like the Deuterium Tanks etc)
Yeah, there are some strange logic to it, as putting in more sensitive equipment makes the ships more prone to getting damaged. But adding mass increases the hull mass and hp.. This is kind of irrelevant as you say, and unnecessarily complex, so I'll remove it. There are several things in the game which is done in a bit too complex way like this, that does not really add much to the game. (I must have thought I was making a simulation instead of a game, at some points) Hull and Armor are still separate, I might change them if this proves too complex for the users. Shield emitters will be fixed, and I'll try to find a better way to display bonuses for stuff like Deuterium Tanks. Iceman wrote: The info about hulls in the "Hull info" help window doesn't match the ships' stats. The "hull info" shows the base stats for the selected hull.. Not including any components you add, maybe "base hull info" would have been a better name =)
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04 Jul 2011, 19:32 |
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Iceman
Admiral
Joined: 14 Jan 2009, 10:17 Posts: 2042
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Í was comparing those stats with those of an empty hull (no components)
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04 Jul 2011, 19:47 |
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klogd
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined: 24 Apr 2009, 09:24 Posts: 214 Location: Norway
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Iceman wrote: Í was comparing those stats with those of an empty hull (no components) Aaaah, seems like the "base hull info" does not take faction bonuses into account.. I'm considering removing the faction bonuses altogether, and instead just using the different structures/components/hull types to balance the game
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04 Jul 2011, 19:49 |
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Iceman
Admiral
Joined: 14 Jan 2009, 10:17 Posts: 2042
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Pop growth decreases with increasing pop in the planet; I'm assuming that's intended, and the numbers in the wiki are the base GRs (they're not up to date BTW).
The adjacent colonies issue (+15 / -1 scan strength), don't know if it's relevant, but the -1 SS system is grayed out in the starmap (as if not being inside the range of a scanning source).
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04 Jul 2011, 20:35 |
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klogd
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined: 24 Apr 2009, 09:24 Posts: 214 Location: Norway
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Iceman wrote: Pop growth decreases with increasing pop in the planet; I'm assuming that's intended, and the numbers in the wiki are the base GRs (they're not up to date BTW). Really? Population growth each turn is based on the current population, so the growth should increase as the system get's more people. Wiki is outdated, going to set up an automatic update for it. Iceman wrote: The adjacent colonies issue (+15 / -1 scan strength), don't know if it's relevant, but the -1 SS system is grayed out in the starmap (as if not being inside the range of a scanning source). anything 0 or below should be grayed out (system is explored, but you can't currently see what is going on in there). So if the second system was next to a big sensor disturbance it would make sense.. Going to look into it.
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04 Jul 2011, 23:01 |
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Iceman
Admiral
Joined: 14 Jan 2009, 10:17 Posts: 2042
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Quote: Hull and Armor are still separate, I might change them if this proves too complex for the users. BTW, empty hulls, besides generating power (already mentioned), also have both _armor_ and hull points (HPs). They shouldn't have armor points, as they have no armor components, it's just the _hull_. One more reason to ditch the armor/HP split IMO. Quote: I'm considering removing the faction bonuses altogether, and instead just using the different structures/components/hull types to balance the game It might be better, at least in terms of visibility to the player. Quote: Really? Population growth each turn is based on the current population, so the growth should increase as the system get's more people. I meant the _percentage_ growth rate, as displayed in the planet info box (when you click on a planet) - the unformatted value mentioned previously. Quote: So if the second system was next to a big sensor disturbance it would make sense.. The 2 systems I had in those conditions (colonies adjacent to other colonies), one was also adjacent to an asteroid belt (which shouldn't affect adjacent sectors?), the other had no disturbance sources nearby.
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05 Jul 2011, 12:09 |
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Iceman
Admiral
Joined: 14 Jan 2009, 10:17 Posts: 2042
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Some more typos:
Weapons 7 description therby -> thereby
Subspace Scanner description satelites -> satellites improves -> improve strenght -> strength surounding -> surrounding
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Was this a randomly generated scenario, or a custom one? Star systems were somewhat placed in clusters of 2~4 stars.
You shouldn't be able to start researching a tech that you already researched.
You can save a ship with negative Agility.
When orbiting an uninhabited system, you can't see the types of planets it has (no View option). You do know how many planets, structures, Deuterium, etc though.
Is shield recharge constant or does it depend on number and level of shields? 2 shields lvl 3 (+140 each) recharged 50 per turn, but didn't check any other situations.
In a star system with 3 Volcanic planets, each one had its own growth rate, quite different from each other, and they all had the same pop.
Attachments:
GrowthRates.jpg [ 163.25 KiB | Viewed 14925 times ]
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05 Jul 2011, 23:15 |
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Komodo
Crewman
Joined: 27 Jun 2011, 20:28 Posts: 21
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klogd wrote: There is not really a cap on how many ships can be in combat.. But I've seen this error before, the combat loop not exiting properly.. Don't know what's causing it yet I've restored it. Adding more smaller ships should not matter, as the combat worked fine when I did it (with your user on your server - before resetting it). When the server is stuck in a loop like that it won't save it's turn (so I just log in to the server and shut down the game server, then it starts up with it's latest save (it currently saves every 5 turns)). Don't see how it can be a problem on your part. Your client just tells the fleet to move to the location, it has nothing what so ever to do with how the combat is done. I've started 3 servers for you, on 3 different port numbers. Your regular port number, and the two following port numbers.. So if your first was 25051 next would be 25052 and 25053. You can try it on all 3 and tell me what happens. Try and edit the client.bat file... it says "start javaw ......" remove the world "start" so that it says "javaw ......." And take a screenshot if there suddenly is a lot of strange text on the black terminal, that looks like error codesIf it fails again, could you please e-mail me your client.log file that should be in the game directory. Report #2Multi server testI was able to log onto each port succesfully. Each rendition proceeded properly. I was even able to log in to 2 ports at the same time, with 2 instances of the game running. Server port 1For the first port, I waited some time until proceeding with moving in the Battlefleet, doing minor things with building, etc. Logged off, then back on- turns were not advancing in my absence. I decided to remove minor vessels from the fleet- all 16 Galaxy class ships were destroyed, Chang had 4 heavy cruisers remaining. Invasion fleet cleaned them up, but could not invade the planet, as at previous enemy planets. Server port 2I proceeded with moving the battle fleet into Chang's grid. Looping problem returned, same as before. I made a copy of the client.log file, the only thing that shows up is this: "EDT 2011 WARNING org.aakretech.trekwar2.client.MapPanel.drawMap: MapPanel deleted dirty ship from fleet: Battlefleet Sun Jul 03 17:36:58 " which repeats about 100 times. I'd guess that once a ship has been destroyed, it is removed from the equation under normal circumstances, but here it isn't happening for some reason. I'm guessing it's due to a bed template. Server port 3Here I tried that edited .bat file as suggested. No problem logging in, or turn progression. I decided to remove the minor ships from the battle fleet here as well. Four Galaxy class ships survived the battle here. Invasion Fleet would not invade planet. I used this port to continue to achieve requested goals. Also noted a few more things of interest: 1) I decided to try to see what to do if a ship ran out of fuel in open space. As expected, it could not travel further. However, once I sent a fleet in, and had it join the fleet, it was able to move along with the other ships to a destination ordered. A nice feature would be the transfer of cargo from one ship to another. 2) I decided to try to see why some planets couldn't be colonised. Apparently, there is a default number of buildings (8) which are built for the initial process. Obviously, there needs to be enough building slots for them to be built. I checked all planets present, as well as my own colonies. The smallest I had was 11 slots. I found 3 in total which could not be colonised- I noted these three had smaller numbers of slots available:- 2, 8, and 9. 3) I was able to do all research available. There was some talk about that section, for the most part I like it the way it is. There is an error there- you should not be able to select a level to start research that's already been researched. At least it ignores that on the next turn and continues with the current job. Personally, I'd like to be able to see everything from the beginning, but colour coded so you can tell which has or has not been researched. 4) I was able to use Ship Designer to produce a template for each hull class, as well as build and test them. 5) I like the plotting system used for ship course orders- especially how it shows if fuel will run out (indicated by a red line). The orders should show in the Fleet window the same turn as given, but don't. A nice feature would be to show how many turns it will take to complete the flight. My current Goal status:Colonize at least 4 new systems (5 total). DONE Colonize at least 9 new systems (10 total) DONE Collect and return minerals from an asteroid belt DONE Reach a lvl 5 technology DONE Reach 3 lvl 5 technologies DONE Reach a lvl 10 technology DONE Unlock the Raptor/Oberth class ship DONE Unlock the K'vort/Constitution class ship DONE Unlock the Vor'cha/Galaxy class ship DONE Unlock the Civillian Barge class ship DONE Explored about 25% of the map DONE Explored about 50% of the map DONE Explored almost 100% of the map DONE Destroyed Lursa's fleet DONE Destroyed Gowron's fleet DONE Destroyed Chang's fleet (the one in his star system) DONE Destroyed Chang's fleet (the one positioned somewhere else) DONE Invaded Lursa's system UNABLE Invaded Gowron's system UNABLE Invaded Changs's system UNABLE Built a ship with a speed of at least 40. DONE Built a ship that can refuel from a nebula. DONE Built a ship with at least 6 sensor modules. DONE Gotten a star system population to about 100% UNCERTAIN
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06 Jul 2011, 04:18 |
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klogd
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined: 24 Apr 2009, 09:24 Posts: 214 Location: Norway
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Komodo wrote: I was able to log onto each port succesfully. Each rendition proceeded properly. I was even able to log in to 2 ports at the same time, with 2 instances of the game running. It's weird you were unable to colonize his system.. When I logged in on your server (before resetting it), I destroyed his fleet but nothing happened when I clicked invade system on the client I sent out. However when I used my client (the one still in development) invading worked fine. Guess I've got a few bugs to fix before the multiplayer part.
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06 Jul 2011, 09:13 |
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klogd
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined: 24 Apr 2009, 09:24 Posts: 214 Location: Norway
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Iceman wrote: Was this a randomly generated scenario, or a custom one? Everything is random, but after the random universe is created, some fleets and additional structures are added to each of the enemy systems. Iceman wrote: You shouldn't be able to start researching a tech that you already researched. Sure you should, replication of research is one of the pillars of science Fine... I'll fix it Iceman wrote: When orbiting an uninhabited system, you can't see the types of planets it has (no View option). You do know how many planets, structures, Deuterium, etc though. hmmf.. where did the view button go? There is a view for that, but the view button doesn't show up for it Iceman wrote: Is shield recharge constant or does it depend on number and level of shields? 2 shields lvl 3 (+140 each) recharged 50 per turn, but didn't check any other situations.
It's a percentage recharge per turn.. 7% + (your energy tech level / 2). Iceman wrote: In a star system with 3 Volcanic planets, each one had its own growth rate, quite different from each other, and they all had the same pop. Some volcanic planets are more volcanic than others For volcanic planets the fertility will be 0.4 + (0 -0.999).. Maybe the random part should be smaller and the fixed part bigger, to avoid to big differences PS. 4 typos in a 1 line text (Subspace scanner)... nice work me!
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06 Jul 2011, 09:28 |
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Iceman
Admiral
Joined: 14 Jan 2009, 10:17 Posts: 2042
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Quote: Everything is random, but after the random universe is created, some fleets and additional structures are added to each of the enemy systems. I was just wondering if map generation as I perceived it (clusters of 2~4 stars at considerable distances from each other) was intended or just my galaxy being created like that by chance. To evaluate things like sensor range, ship speed and range, etc. Quote: Sure you should, replication of research is one of the pillars of science Speaking of research, I think research should continue even if you do not assign a new project (not logged in for example), with an automatic choice of a new tech - most likely the least developed tech field. Your labs are still running after all. Also, a research queue could be a nice addition, so you could be away for some time and still plan your research. Quote: It's a percentage recharge per turn.. 7% + (your energy tech level / 2). I don't think this adds up to what I saw/posted. 2 shields of 140 strength, each recharging +25. I was at tech level 6 or 8, which is +10/11%, which amounts to +14/15 per turn - not 25. Max energy tech level is 10, which is +12% per turn (in this case +17). Also, the tech level of the shield itself is not a factor? Not saying it should, just checking. Quote: For volcanic planets the fertility will be 0.4 + (0 -0.999).. Maybe the random part should be smaller and the fixed part bigger, to avoid to big differences I tend to agree. BTW, my homesystem did get to max pop, probably around turn 250~300.
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06 Jul 2011, 18:29 |
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