Hmm what about slightly raised landing pad in the place of the tower that was closest to the camera and two or three klingon stuttles landed there.

I'll work on that. Apologies but must get going right at the moment. Otherwise no problem. Edit: Posted while vjeko was posting. Not sure I have Klingon shuttles. May find that it starts to make the image appear to be a government parliament building or something. Anyone know how to spell Lab in Klingon?

That might work, I'm trying to rack my brain for a Klingon science symbol, something that a lot of Klingon labs would have. For example I could see a telescope, beaker symbols, or some art-like statue outside a federation science lab.

Hey is there a famous Klingon scientist or discovery? would a statue of that outside make sense? If these are multiple buildings then they'd likely be more uniform so specific things that stand out might be impractical. I'm not sure...

Yup I'm off as well, if you have time try a green tinge to the shipyards metal (but keep the red lights) and see what that does (I say this not knowing if this is a simple task or one of monumental difficulty, so please forgive my ignorance).

No offense taken, that's what forums are for, to express our thoughts and opinions.



Likely being the operative word there. I'm pretty sure there are some humans (scientists or not) that could give a good fight to a Klingon. Some human scientists might be martial arts experts, or good with a blade. In general terms though, Klingons are supposedly physically superior. OTOH, Humans seem in general more cunning and agile, which gives them an advantage in other types of engagements.



Notice the context in which I made the comment/comparison. It's not like you see a whole lot of "defense-like" towers in Klingon structures. I think there was some generalization being made (from a pic or three), and hence my comment. There are some towers, but probably being (the top) part of government buildings or so.
Like you mentioned, and I agree, ST lore does make generalizations so that each empire can have some focal point to be recognized by. The Klingons for example, they're also very treacherous and conduct dishonorable actions left and right - so whoever thinks Klingons are all about honor and pure warrior spirit, is fooling himself.
Also notice that Klingon society was pretty balanced until the 22nd century, warriors were not really too dominant. AND, Klingons have women and children too, as well as every other type of non-warrior "person" - only a fool would think the Klingon Empire is composed of billions or trillions of warriors. But, like you said, they're mostly seen as a race of honorable warriors, as a generalization.
Klingons are very similar to BattleTech's Clans; the warrior caste dominates because, well, they're the coolest Still, there are other castes, which are *needed* to provide the warriors with the tools of war and to feed them obviously.



But are towers really a thematic point for Klingons? That's the whole point. Also, should we generalize what we see in Qo'noS? These labs will be built in any colony, any planet type. Sure, there has to be generalization, but must all Klingon strctures be on top of a wall and surrounded by towers? Including labs, farms, factories and power stations? Which exist in multiples in each colony?
That's why I mentioned that this would be more likely to happen in specific buildings, unique or one per colony Buildings.
Yes, there are countries in the world where they put flags everywhere, especially where nationalistic concerns are paramount - I've seen plenty of that in moderate muslim countries for example. Again, I actually like the tower-like masonry type Buildings in the game (Hall of Warriors, Great Hall, etc), I just don't think we should overdo the "theme" by adding *extra* towers - and thats' for the Production Facilities, which are more mundane structures.



You have the "masonry" theme, the tone, the colors. There's no mistaking them, towers or no towers. Bashir seems to want to forego the color thing, I think that would have more of an impact than then removal of the towers.

Anyways, just presenting my PoV.

Agreed. Keeping it simple would be best IMO.

Totally agree here. The previous version looked more Klingonish.



Notice that Federation labs are called Univesities. In BotF Klingons had Halls of Learning, which I suppose are the equivalent. Now they're called Working Parties for some reason, probably to give them a soviet-like flavor.



Yeah, they'd be best in Simulator Labs or the Praxis Research Base IMO.

No I'm fine with the color thing. I would just get in a hurry and forget to use the race color that's all - and everyone would jump on it much to my amusement. So I made a joke with the laughing Romulan at the end. At least that's how it was intended. The green tower tops are not entirely anti-Klingon. As Kaladin said, see the bird of prey. But in looking for something for the tower roof I have a corroded copper texture available in the drawing program. I chose it for three reasons. It would have been reddish till corrosion set in, t appeared to be "roof like" and I have seen other Klingon structures with green.

Just as an aside, I didn't mention the green roofs, I just didn't like the towers much. I have no problem with a little green.
So, it wasn't everyone.

So no for you on the two towers Kaladin proposed?

Now that everyone has tossed this around, I think I personally like the darker military fatigue texture.

Should they be facing the same direction?



Well, they look background-ish to me, and it seems now we're going with no backgrounds for PFs. It does look better with only the 2 though. But the building itself already has 4 towers attached to it, hence my comments about the external towers.

While at it, comparing with the size of the entrance doors, the light poles are huge, and so are the towers - including the 2 tower tops of the building. The scale of the building seems enormous for a lab I guess.
It has kind of a cathedral feel to it, I think. Or a sports arena, if the tower tops are removed - probably from the bat'leths on top

Took me a moment: You mean the shipyards. Easy to fix. Do you want the darker version?


You mean that if the two towers on top were removed it would look like a sports arena? Ohhhhhhhhh Bat'leths = sport. I see what you mean. Hadn't thought of that. I wonder if Matress has thought of that.

So I could always scale up the doors and take off the Bat'Leths.

Sorry, that was kind of sloppy of me, was doing something else. I prefer the very first version of the shipyards you made, but if they look too dark in the game (haven't checked, can't do it right now), this last version is better than the other one.

And yes, I guess the somewhat roundish shape plus the bat'leths on top make me think of a sports arena for some reason.
The towers on top and on the sides plus the tall windows give it the cathedral look I guess.
Scaling the doors up would be good IMO, it'd make it a less imposing building, removing the feel of being an important and special building.

Totally get that.

I think this fixes most stuff.

On that point I was more referring to the Bat'Leths and the militaristic look, not the towers directly but I don't see them as awkward in the building's picture. Additionally it is a sample picture, a representation and not the actual building on each colony, otherwise the art team would need to draw several billion variants, one for each climate, architect, Klingon house, planet, etc. It is like when one would look up the word ‘house’ in an encyclopedia you find a picture of a sample house (maybe a few), not all homes look like that. Rarely in reality would you find "all labs" looking exactly the same, some might look the same or similar but, a lab that focuses on disease control in Africa would likely look a lot different than one that’s developing jet propulsion in the US. In this case using an artistically drawn building is appropriate and looks nice, since it is just a representation.

Now if you want them all to be factory-assembled buildings where the pieces are all shipped then put together then you'd probably end up with more unified looks since the goal is efficiency and not aesthetics.

As to the location of the building, such as on top of a wall, yeah I don't know about that, but again it is just a sample.

This one looks good, I'm not sure about the torches, I was actually going to suggest adding torches but now that I see it... the building looks amazing but not sure it looks like a lab. I think we need to add something that screams science to it, right now it looks a little like a church on first look (It looks like a library or university too). Otherwise this building is looking great.

It looks great. As long a everyone is pilling on I would suggest the red be a little less vivid. Darken it a little and you could even add a little noise texture to give it some slight variation in a number of properties.

Yeah you are right it does seem like a computer red versus something more real with texture, however I think its supposed to be a transparent surface (like glass). But I think making it have a texture might give it a more real look.

A tower review. The Klingon images so far are riddled with towers. Foreground and background. They are also in the background of the original great hall image. However, they are very mongolian or asian. Kind of pottery jar looking. In general, the buildings tend to be pyramidal. There is the exception of the round or oval building in the background of the center picture with the roof I pointed out before. It struck me as newer, which could be construed as consistent with a science building or lab. Maybe I'll try something else. I do this because, with vjeko's windows there is a Gothic cathedral thing going on here. My apologies.

The tower with the Gravitic power station is Mongolian consistent however. Kenneth, here it is modernized and weathered. There are two versions of this now, so feel free to use the one you prefer.

Let me quote what I said:



Focal points:
- towers, not tower shaped buildings
- Qo'noS as a special planet, the Hall of Warriors is a unique building
- buildings surrounded by towers, not towers on their own (the pic used for the bunkers IIRC) or government looking buildings with towers on top (the Governor's Hall)

Don't be offended, but I know those pics. I even told you they are amazing for their realistic look, to which you agreed.
Are there towers? Sure. That's not the point. The point is, should production facilities which in the game are common basic structures be surrounded by towers? Should labs be surrounded by towers? Non-building towers. 6 or so towers.
Not trying to make an issue out of this, just explaining my comments. Klingon or not, making martial looking labs and farms might be pushing it.

We have other pics with bat'leths and a militaristic look, more related to warriors. They fit those pics. This is a lab. No need to overdo the theme. That was my point.



That's not what I meant, obviously. I meant having towers surrounding a lot of buildings. That's overdoing the theme.



Isn't that what colony ships - those that start the colonies where these facilities will be - do? And honestly, I'd think that Klingons _would_ build their labs that way. But that's just me.



I'd say that special buildings would look good like that, labs and farms and whatnot no. But I'd be repeating myself to death. I'd also say it's overdoing the theme, but again I'd be... you know.
Just replying, no offense meant.

All valid points. But we both like consistency. I'm just an artist trying to please a lot of people, you included. Guessing what is in everyone's mind isn't possible, so I go by the previous images, which I admitted I didn't do well, which was the only point of the post. I can't make it look Klingon and then not make it look Klingon at the same time. Also when you do this and render an image it can look dull. So you change it and struggle with trying to come up with something special for a great game. I had something else so strongly in mind I didn't see the arena or the cathedral. I'll fix it.

All said with a friendly soul.

Klngon military and Klingon civilian are all Klingon.

ha!

Before I begin the task of cutting windows. Academic and Klingon?

Klingon shipyard I turned the other direction to match shipyard ii

Thats kinda neat actually, looks like a factory, if you don't use that for the library/university/workingparty you should keep it for something else, it has a nice character to it.

If you are looking for inspiration do a search for "Library Building" in google images or something similar then take which ever one screams the most Klingon to you and make it more Klingon-ish.

For example the "Vancouver Public Library Building" has a very unique look to it and that building is used in several TV shows and movies. It often gets used as an alien structure (such as on shows like Stargate). It has an almost Roman feel to it but I can see with the proper texture it could look Klingon. This is just an example of what I mean.

It sort of looks like this from top down: O)

You get your tower like feel to it too because I believe the building is 7-8 stories tall.

You said that Klingon buildings had a Mongolian feel to them "Mongolian building national circus" the first image you look at in Google images looks pretty neat and I can see that working for a Klingon Place of Learning. Its circular and has the roof peaking in waves around the circumference and pointed in the center.

I have personal photographs of that Vancouver public Library. It's cool. That old hospital in downtown Vancouver is where James Doohan was born. Gotta look up Mongolian Circus.

Yeah the library is a pretty amazing building, always amazes me when I look at it.