While it's true that there are far more stars than can possibly be represented, it becomes a more reasonable representation if you consider it as only potentially habitable or dangerous systems are actually included on the map, with the more numerous but unusable stars omitted because they're simply unimportant. Taken that way, the number of systems on both star charts and in game is alot more palatable, I think.

I agree completely ... for the most part. As I understand it, most have the ships have already been designed for the game ... meaning how ever the tech tree is arranged should be what drives the chronological settings.

Otherwise, your first attachment is what I used to make my map ... well, that the book it came from and memory alpha to fill in the blanks.

Your other attachment, I find very interesting ... Where did you find it? I especially found it entertaining that the Fen Domar was added in the same place I BS'd them to be.

-Aquila

Has anyone noticed that there is a star called Memory Alpha on that second map? It's close to Sol, almost one sector to the north-west.

There's also a system called Corneria. I wonder if there are any talking animals there...

Well, the star Memory Alpha is the the namesake of the datbase Mamory Alpha, which is, if I'm not mistaken a giant, planetwide research and archive-facility, s there may be a bonus of some sort to have a species there called the Alphans (just an idea) and their special building is a planetwide data-matrix that gives some % more research empire-wide.

I am alwys surprised to see, where some people put the Sheliak. I've already seen some putting them up in the north between the Crimson-Nebula and the Setisar-Nebula, or to the south of the Tholians.
Hm, I'm surprised to see a Federation between the Romulans and the Klingons behind Mempa. But I also never heard about species like the Eloc, or the Garidians...
That second map is the best map of the Federation I have seen so far.

If the Federation expanded beyond the Klingon-Romulan border, it would only have been possible if the Klingons let Starfleet vessels travel through their space to the other side, although I imagine the Federation-Klingon alliance helped the process. It's odd that the Klingons didn't annex that region of space themselves though - or that the Romulans didn't do what they could to prevent the Federation from further choking off their breathing room, especially with the Garidian Republic almost totally sealing them off on the other side. Still, i've not heard of the Garidian Republic either, so i'm assuming it was a map based on events and races in the more recent Trek novels, or perhaps was based on some sort of crossover with another series i'm not familiar with.

Incidentally, the Mutara Nebula is faaaar bigger than I would have expected, and I always imagined the Sheliak Corporate surrounded the southern edge of Gorn space. If this map is correct, it would've taken the Enterprise-D months, if not years to reach their space.

My thoughts as well, but as said, I've seen people putting the Sheliak to the most unusual places, also on the opposite place of where that map is putting them, so whatever.
It's a very good map about the Federation, Klingon, RRoluman TErritory though. But considering that according to some novels Donatra founded the Imperial Romulan State after Tal'Aura (the one senator that killed the others in the start of Nemesis) made herself Praetor, this map was either done before the film or counts the IRS to the RSE...

Just curious about the status of this because if it's ongoing, I'd love to help.


RE: Gamm Quadrant vs. Alpha & Beta craziness:

As mentioned, the Gamma Quadrant would be kind of empty, but we could turn this into a design decision instead of a "curse of canon" type of decision.

Imagine the Dominion pre- Jem'Hadar, pretty much just the founders on a piss poor world trying to expand. The Jem'Hadar could easily become a minor race nuisance by being more powerful and highly aggressive require careful stepping on the part of the player to survive their opening position.

Once they've conquered the relatively poor resources of the gamma quadrant, they would then be forced to expand into alpha/beta (or face excursions from alpha/beta as well.

So balance can be achieved by having the gamma quadrant overall be of poorer quality, so that even though the Dominion has no real competition (other then the Jem'Hadar minor race) that doesn't mean they have a completely superior position either and will just roll over everyone because they've got 100's of planets under their belt.

If the Gamma Quadrant is populated with a lot of hazards and smallish or inferior planets, then it's an easier "spot" but still a struggle and balance is maintained.


RE: Delta Quadrant: The corridor "gauntlet" is an interesting idea, until you take into account that you can't have a lone ship moving that far from supply unless you bring an army of transports with it.

I would instead reduce the size of the alien empires (just make them all minor races so the game engine doesn't burn itself up simming a dozen delta empires) and put the caretaker in the absolute upper right corner and have the progression of planets lead from upper right to lower left with just a lot of dead space in between. Sure you "could" short cut and go straight down instead of winding through but you'd need an army of transport ships to do it.

OR you can try and planet hop your way back. The innermost part of the delta quadrant can be effectively "walled off" by having stationary borg cube fleets, as that would make it effectively "impassable" to a certain point within the game.


Some basic questions:
1) Can wormholes be designed as one-way only, becuase then the caretaker could be "simmed" with a one-way wormhole in the briar patch

2) Can "impassable terrain" be placed in a nicer way then a 4-deep section of neutron stars or black holes?

3) Can minor races have their own empires?

4) Can a map be generated with "canon" squares (i.e. pre-set items) and also "random squares" that will generate a random tile at the same time? (i.e. could we just set the delta quadrant as "random generated map" and leave it at that?)

In 3D (and with the existence of wormholes and etc.) it is possible to go around borders with a bit of effort. That’s one thing a 2D territorial map can't really easily represent.

Could that be adjusted to make more sense? Squeeze it over so the romulans/klingons are the edge of the sector and not this random chunk of federation space?

Yes, it might not technically be canon but it would work and play much better me thinks if when you "flatten the universe" you slide the fed systems over to the left.

Re Dominion
We actually discussed the possibility of having the Dominion not be able to colonize systems - a colony ship full of Founders is kind of odd. The game does kind of address that by making the inhabiting race of TGL the Founders, and any other colony the Jem'Hadar. Not much better though. Anyways, if they would only be able to annex or conquer minors/majors, it'd kind of be in line with their "philosophy".
It's aldo be a whole new way of playing the game, but it's kind of a risky bet (in game design terms that is).
Notice that most systems being empty at start in the Gamma Q, they'd start slow. They'd have to rely on minors or space stations to expand - the latter would actually be useful.

I'm actually trying to convince Mike that a move-to-systems-only / stations-buildable-in-systems-only approach could be interesting.

Sounds like an interesting concept Iceman. But even if it doesn't make it into the game I think the Dominion colonisation should be adjusted a bit.
Since the Vorta are no longer an independent minor it would make much more sense to have Dominion colonies settled by Vorta than by Jem'Hadar.
Unlike the Jem'hadar the Vorta appear to have livespans closer to the average humanoid. They are also shown to have more mental flexibility and not this single-minded focus on conquest. I can picture a Vorta managing an agricultural facility, but a Jem'Hadar? The Vorta have been shown to be involved not only in diplomacy and administration but also sciences (the researchers looking for a cure for the section 31 disease) and intelligence operations (the female Vorta 'imprisoned' together with Sisko and Quark by the Jem'Hadar). While the Jem'Hadar appear as the clenched fist of the Dominion the Vorta are apparentyl much more of a multi-purpose tool for the Founders. I think it would make more sense if Dominion colonies are settled by Vorta and the Jem'Hadar are represented by special structures such as a Hatchery/Cloning Facility/Garrison.

Sounds like an interesting concept Iceman. But even if it doesn't make it into the game I think the Dominion colonisation should be adjusted a bit.
Since the Vorta are no longer an independent minor it would make much more sense to have Dominion colonies settled by Vorta than by Jem'Hadar.
Unlike the Jem'hadar the Vorta appear to have livespans closer to the average humanoid. They are also shown to have more mental flexibility and not this single-minded focus on conquest. I can picture a Vorta managing an agricultural facility, but a Jem'Hadar? The Vorta have been shown to be involved not only in diplomacy and administration but also sciences (the researchers looking for a cure for the section 31 disease) and intelligence operations (the female Vorta 'imprisoned' together with Sisko and Quark by the Jem'Hadar). While the Jem'Hadar appear as the clenched fist of the Dominion the Vorta are apparentyl much more of a multi-purpose tool for the Founders. I think it would make more sense if Dominion colonies are settled by Vorta and the Jem'Hadar are represented by special structures such as a Hatchery/Cloning Facility/Garrison.

I agree with you. I remember making a similar point
We do have buildings like Vorta Cloning Lab and Jem'Hadar Barracks for the Dominion. I actually suggested implementing something resembling ground troops, with a Barracks defensive facility of which you coul build multiples per colony - much like orbital batteries. They'd be affected by the race's "strength" modifier, which for the Dominion would be the Jem'Hadar's. We also have the description of industry facilities mention the Vorta overseeing production.
Someone also suggested the Dominion starting the game with both TGL an Kurill, justifying the presence of the Vorta from the start.

One way to do it would be to have the Jem'Hadar and Vorta NOT start as part of the dominion and instead have the "Founders" only have the bare bones in ships. No troops, no colony ships, just some basic long-range scout explorers and maybe some heavy hitting cruisers (just in case you piss off the minor races you have something to fall back on).

THEN you would give a good number of the minor races in the Dominion to have the ships you need.

So the Jem'Hadar would have the troop transports and heavy hitting warships, the Vorta would have the colony ships etc. Maybe have some duplicates so that while the Jem'Hadar have "the best" warships of the Gamma, [Insert race here] has the 2nd best etc.

Once the Jem'Hadar are brought in (by conquest or by diplo-annex) then it "unlocks" those ships across your empire and they level up etc as normal.

HOWEVER I would say this should ONLY be for player Dominion. AI Dominion should just automatically start with the Jem'hadar and Vorta as absorbed minor races and have their ships unlocked.

It should also only be for "early" games. Middle or advanced should have them auto annexed.

As for the "unlocking" I'm sure there is a variable tracker for each ship that says something like "When tech level = X, make available". For Dominion ships, you would add in "If Jem'Hadar = Allied to Dominion/Conquered Then Unlock"


If you went really crazy that could be a unique feature about the Dominion that when they get a minor race, the minor races ships are unlocked at ALL shipyards, not just their home system, but that would be assuming that minor race ships can actually hold up to major race ships...

I don't think that would work very well. You'd have to have a way to force the generation of the Jem'Hadar and the Vorta in every game, and you'd always be dependent on which other minors would be generated for the Gamma Q. If you didn't find the Vorta asap for example, you'd fall behind; if things were set up so that you'd always find them quickly, then what would be the point really?
Also, the Jem'Hadar are not really a race per se. I'm only saying this because we had a similar discussion.
One other limitation is that you cannot build the ships of minor races. Only they can build them, while independent.

The other thing would be to not make it Jem'Hadar / Vorta dependent, instead just requiring the Founders to conquer / diplo-annex 2 minors in the gamma to unlock their full array of ships.

Re: Falling behind - the slower start-up could offset their "loneliness" in the gamma-q

Re: Jem'Hadar - true the modern Jem aren't a race per se, but they once WERE something before being pumped full of white. Why not keep things simple and refer to their pre "white" days as Jem'Hadar as well?

If I recall correctly the Vorta were the ones who were just altered by the Founders - the Jem'Hadar are designed completely by the Founders - they don't even have a gender distinction like the Vorta which would allow a reproduction independent from the cloning facilities. So there shouldn't be a Jem'Hadar minor as they were created by the dominion.

Correct.