You know what would you guys say if species 8472 was just implemented into the game as a module? Or would you actually have them the same way as the Borg, i mean they aren't that evil to other societies are they? They hated voyager, who would blame them.

Yes, understandable. Especialy since they were alied with the Borg. Really S8472 shouldn't be in the game except as a special event in relation to the Borg. Then, they should only attack the Borg.

i agree, they should just be a module instead of a random event. They even eventually reconciled with Voyager in a later episode (the one with the Academy dome)

I've opened a poll where you can discuss details about species 8472 further.

Okeey i was wondering how you wanted the CareTaker station in the game. I mean would you like it to be near the Ocampa homeworld? To protect it like the Edo or not? Do you want that ships get randomly assigned to it's location? Do the Ocampa need to get a advantage because a CareTakes station is above their heads like in Voyager? How many CareTaker devices do you want to have in the game? Only one for Ocampa of more?

If you would destroy the CareTaker station then ofcourse the ships won't be moved again to the location.

The Ocampa system should have the Caretaker array in it, just one. It shouldn't actually protect the planet. How the system should work is, ships will randomly be drawn to it from certain "Bermuda Triangle" places, in particular, The Badlands(?). The other aspect is, the Okampa homeworld cannot be invaded and their population can't grow past a certain point. It's the only way I can think of representing the underground Okampa city, its shielding, and how you couldn't transport in.

However, once you arrive, as any major power, an option should pop up, you either send your ship back home and destroy the array, or go home and don't destroy the station. I know, it didn't work that way in Voyager but they were under mind control of plot, they could have set up a time bomb protected by a forcefield, and left. So the two results are; for the former, after two years worth of turns, the Okampa they lose their invincibility to invasion but their population can now expand. With the latter, the Kazon immediately get a huge tech bonus and are able to flex their expansionist muscles. After two years of turns, the Okampa emerge but this time they have a very good chance of being concurred by the Kazon.

This is my thougth about it:

You can not invade the acompa system unless you have destroyed the CareTaker.

The CareTaker is capable of defending itselve, because he was weak he couldn't put up a real fight. But that is actually also why ships were send their because he was going to die in the coming years/centuries.

The Ocampa can not expand to other planets on their system.

I think that it would be better to keep it simple and just let the array move ships to the Ocampa homeworld, without any ending.

That's silly on two accounts, it didn't work that way in the show and when you as a viewer saw the Caretaker Array, the Caretaker soon after died, leaving the station open to be either destroyed or ransacked. Since you would need to defeat the Caretaker either way, it might as well be a story element. It can lead into the two options mentioned but with the modifier of getting a research bonus from the encounter. It would have to start two ways though, either you get sucked there, or you find it on your own, either way the first ship there starts the story event. After two years of turns, you can still take them over and gain their bonus, of what, short life spans?

that wouldn't help the game how you propose it. Really canon is not always a option because it wouldnt make sense. If we want the CareTaker in than some changes have to be made.

It's a story element, there is no reason for it not to be canon. Especially since the canon for the most part does makes sense. Your arrival is triggering an event that causes the death of the caretaker, which leads to you either protecting the Okampa or screwing them and getting away. If a the turns can be turned into proper years, then the death of the caretaker could be changed to a time stamp thing, to make it even more canon. Then you could it that the Okampa can't be invaded unless you destroy the Array, or untill the owner of the array dies on his own. That could be fun.

I think the Caretaker Array should act like the Edo's guardian, to a point. Early in the game he would be stronger and be able to defend himself, and the Ocampa from other empres. (I'm not sure, should the Ocampa be able to make contact with other empires, like you could with the Edo and their guardian in the original, or should the Cartaker be able to block any contact until he is destroyed?)

Like I said, the Caretaker would protect himself, and the Ocampa, to a point. Once the game has gone a certain number of turns (say around the time the Federation should be in the TNG-VOY era), there could be certain 'bermuda triangles' like Diarr said throughout the galaxy (including, but not limited to the Badlands) that would now have the chance to take any ship to the Caretaker location. There should only be one or two ships the can be pulled to the Carateaker from any single 'triangle'.

Once the ship(s) is there, I dont really think it should take place in any story choices, it should just be there, and (possibly?) be able to make contact with the Ocampa. From there on, youre on your own, hope you can make friends for fuel, and defend yourself from enemies. Hopefully the ship that was teleported was advanced enough to be fuel efficent, and have a respectable weapons and shield systems (that is why the caretaker should only start teleporting after MANY turns inot the game) Hope your lucky enough to find a wormhole, and aviod the Borg.

your triangle thing seems unreal to me. The Caretaker randomly selected races troughout the galaxy to come towards him. Because it happened in a nebula with Voyager doesn't mean he needs that type of interference to do the same just somewhere in space. Besided you will now know where you can't go. So i propose to make it a random, so that suddenly a ship of yourse can be lighyears away. I also think it's best to let it act as a Edo Guardian. This really is a easier way then the triangles.

Well, I didnt realy mean for the 'triangles' to show up on the map, or to only be in nebulas, or something similar. They were just unmarked areas, where a ship may be teleported from at a certain time in the game. They could even be randomized in each new game.

But if thats too much, just having a ship randomly teleported works for me

i know that what you mean by the triangles. But anyway is this then how you would want to see it?

CareTaker acts as the Edo Guardian.

It will be a bit weakers then the Edo Guardian.

The CareTaker can take ships towards it.

Should this then mean that the Ocampa should stay independent until the caretaker has been destroyed?

I have begun creating the Random Events list. I didn't get to far this evening, but will edit or repost it in the coming days with other things. Still a lot in this thread seemed a bit vague to me, for instance the Dyson thing, and there are other things. Just explain them again, and i will add them to the list.

Borg
(They will come and destroy your vessels, assimilate your homes and destroy anything that comes in their way).
species 8472
(They sometimes might appear out of nowhere and begin attacking colonise and ships, they can not conquer systems. There can always come more of these even after you have destroyed the earliers ships).
Sphere Builders
(They will come and build spheres in space, perhaps even come with a few ships. All space in these sectors will become uninhabitle and your ships can get destroyed or at least heavily damaged after some time. I am not certain if they could expand themselve, same actually goes with species 8472. Perhaps it's better not to?
Sytherians
(You will be transported to a certain system where they life. You will receive a technology boost. Question remains if you should be send back?
CareTaker Array
(You could be send towards this array as a random event. I know there are already quite a few of these, so sending ships of to these things should be rare.)
Climate Change
(Planets can either positively or negativilely change into a different type of planet, this will be rare).
Super Nova
(It will be possible that when a sun goes nova, a blackhole will appear. Do not come in this piece of space because you will be sucked in, a supernova can also change into a whitestar or neutron star.).
Comet struck some planet
(This option will appear not often in the game because we are talking about the big pieces. All population will be killed of that planet, and it will undergo an climate change. So a planet of 100 milion people in a system of 500. Would mean that 100 of those 500 milion will die).
Pirates
(They can raid your systems, ships and traderoutes. They can also attack lonely starships that they feel could pose a thread when it would join a stronger group.
Plague
(A plague can contanimate one of your systems. This plague can spread to other systems when you are not careful enough. Do not send any ships that has been infected to a system. YOu can wait till the plague is over, or you can cure the people with socalled hospital ships. Also hospitals that are in the system can help and cure the deceise. You also get a better rating of others when you help them with this).
Anchient Artifacts
(You can get the message that artifact have been found. This could help you with research or something. Perhaps this should only happen when you are researching a system with a ship?).
Ion Storms
(Ion storms can appear and damage or even destroy vessels, stations and facilities).
Tribbles
(Tribbles can appear in systems or on ships. They could cause starvartion for a certain amount of turns in a certain system or do damage to ships and/or facilities/starbases).
Massive Earthquake
(Will damage buildings, and kill people)
Massive Volcano Explosion
(Will damage buildings, and kill people)

I agree with it acting like the Edo's guardian, and being slightly weaker than that guardian. I also agree with it taking ships towards it, but it still think this should only happen after 'x' ammount of turns, so that the ship being transported there is atleast slightly advanced. The reason I say that is so the ship that is being taken to the Array is strong enough to be able to defend itself, and has better fuel efficiency than the earlier vessels, to make the long trip home slightly easier. Lets say it begins around the Excelsior/Ambasidor level, and lasts until the TNG/VOY level (or so).

About the Ocampa being independant, well, ...I'm really not sure. From a cannon perspective, having them independant until the Caretaker dies makes sense, but if no one comes and destroys the Array, the Ocampa would be 'forced' into their independance for MANY turns, til the Caretaker dies of 'natural' causes. Since I'm not sure, I've come up with 2 options for how to impliment the Ocampa into gameplay.

1. Other empires cannot make contact with the Ocampa until the Cartaker is gone. This can be accomplished by either waiting til the Careaker 'dies', or to bring a fleet of ships and destroying the array (this would not be easy, just ask someone who has tried to get rid of the Edo's guardian). If this is how the Ocampa are handled, I think that whatever their 'empire specific building' is, it should be a very good one, to make up for the fact that you have either waited a long time to make contact with them, or you have just used a pretty big fleet of ships putting the Caretaker out of his misery to make contact.
OR
2. Treat them like the Edo in the original. The caretaker allows contact, and wont blow you out of the sky, as long as you dont make any hostile moves against them. (I think if this option is taken, the Ocampa should start as 'hostile' or 'icy' to any empire that is making contact with them. {Using BOTF's method of another empire's affinity to you} The reasoning behind that is to make you have to 'jump throught some hoops', proving to the Caretaker that you trully have peaceful intentions towards its 'children'.

So if you all dont mind, id like a vote on this, either option 1, 2, or 3 (make your own option three, and post it, because I'm sure there are other ideas floating out there)

Personally, I prefer #1, but like I said, Im really not sure how this aspect of the Ocampa should be handeled, so I'm open to other ideas.

i would prefer point 2, only that they it will take a long time before they will go into membership with another race.

I vote point 2 for the same reasons
-Jega

HI!
I've been reading the thread and i got dizzy at some parts so, sorry if some of these have been mentioned. I'd just like to input some random events. I TRIED phrasing them similary to BoTF. Tell me if you like some of them. Any of them...


A survey ship detected a -Empire name- experimental propulsion craft a drift. The Empire's goverment has been informed and they were grateful for the return of their craf. Relations with -Empire- have improved. The surveyor also conducted descreet scans of the craf. We estimate this will advance our propulsion studies by xx teraquads.

The Federation has come into possesion of some compromising material relating to a prominent -Empire's- dignitary close to the Emperor/President. Using these, we have persuiaded him to promote our intrests in the goverment. Relations with -Empire- have improved.

A young enlisted engineer aboard a resuply space station has suggested several new operating protocols. These will increase repair/resuply speed aboard that/some/all repair stations.

A renowned Star Fleet officer has been convicted of dishonourable conduct. Enlistments have been temporarily reduced.

Prime Directive violation against -Minor race- . Relations with the -Minor race- have been significantly damaged. Relations with -Minor Races like Vulcans, Trill- have also been damaged.

Star Fleet Command has arranged an officer exchange program in cooperation with the Klingon High Command/Cardassian Central Command. As a result we have an increased number of avaliable officers. (enlistment increased)/as a result we are experiencing a shortage of officers. (enlistment reduced).


I also think the Nexus and Omega Molecule should be incorporated. Not sure how, though.
The Nexus should have a negative impact on morale since people aren't too happy to be taken out of it. (It could also increase weapons research because everyone would be developing trilithim weapons )

About the Omega - maybe it would give a big boost to energy research (before it's destroyed) or something? Maybe a blast which would make adjecent sectors unpassable?

I hope you like some of the ideas, comments or critisism welcome.

Good job CVN, those all seem like good ideas. I espically liked ideas 1, 2, and 5. As for the Omega molecule, Im not sure how you could work it in, and I think the Nexus was talked about a while ago, but there wasnt much of a conclusion on it.

CVN- Awesome ideas. Truly awesome. I sepecially like some of the smaller scale ideas, like the engineer making the breakthrough, or the temporary dip in enlistment etc. Makes the universe seem very real.

Nexus
-Flies around the galaxy occasionally, (not often though as it was established it also passes through other galaxies).
-If it enters a solar system it may reduce population by a certain factor, it may also damage structures.
-Obviously the population effect will only be a portion of a single planet. -Any ships or stations may be destroyed or severely damaged.
-It moves very quickly- around speed 8.

Omega
-An extremely rare random. If it's discovered you get the option to either study or destroy the molecule.
-If you choose study you run a high risk of 'detonating' the molecule. The resulting explosion destroys everything 3 hexes in either direction, it also permanently disables warp in those sectors.
-If the study goes well, you get a MASSIVE boost in energy tech.
-Choosing to destroy means there's a really good chance the disposal will work, although there's a small chance of 'detonation'.


How do they sound?

Thats sounds good to me Son. About the Nexus, how big sould it be? 1 hex, 2 or 3...?

Other than that, does anyone have an opinion on the Ocampa and the Caretaker. It was discussed on page 9 of this thread, and the main thing im curious about is when you people think the caretaker should start transporting ships, and how the Ocampa should be handeled diplomatically. If youre curious about what I think, look back at my post.

So if youve got a minute, look it over, and let us know what you think.

The Nexus is plenty big enough at 1 hex. This represents a sector of space and I don't see a particular need for it to be any bigger.


The Caretaker
-I see this as an Edo Guardian type structure, orbiting Ocampa.
-It randomly drags ships from any point in the galaxy to an adjacent sector.
-There are no rules regarding when and where it takes ships from, it's just completely random.
-It has roughly the same firepower as a Sovereign, making it invincible early on.
-It will not attack unless provoked, similar to Edo God.
-At some point, the Caretaker could expire, stepping up the transport of ships starting 50 turns prior.

The Ocampa
-I want this to be completely identical to the Edo. As long as you are no threat, the Caretaker will allow you diplomatic contact.
-When the Caretaker is dead or destroyed, the Ocampa are a timid, Mintakan style race.


Good thing about the Caretaker is that due to the fuel replacing range, there's no reason a sole ship couldn't travel all the way back home, even if it takes 200 turns.

YEY We get to play Voyager!!!!

About Omega I like everthing SonOfMogh, that's pretty much how I thought it should look like!

About Nexus Also like it mostly! How about the morale dropping after it leaves. Those Al-Eurians that got janked out of it were prety pissed

I was also thinking about a few more random events; You know the Bank of Bolia from DS9 (which Morn robbed)? Well...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Domestic terrorists simuntaneously hacked into the credit systems of the Bank of Bolia and the Federation Development Bank. Using system overrides they declared bancrupcies of several major galactic trade consortiums and companies. This has caused a temporary, but widespread confusion in our monetary system. (-40% credits for 5 turns)


Hope you like it, thinking up of a few more...

I like it, keep 'em coming!

The Nexus= morale drop sounds feasable. I doubt many people actually get back out again, but either way morale would be messed up following the tragedy.

Regarding the Voyager situation. How cool would it be to sign non agression treaties, even friendships with empires as you pass through their space, stopping at friendly outposts and starbases to refuel/repair etc. Avoiding hostile empires and entering dangerous nebulae for coffee.

VERY! Indeed, VERY!
Then again, if you let Janeway pilot the ship she'll deprive the quadrant of coffe, and get 60% of the people to want to kill you when you come back.

This would be cool, but how many races that you stumble upon would be friendly enough to sign the treaties, and not try to shoot you on site?

This is why I would prefer that the caetaker not take ships away until a certain number of turns, of tech level is reached. Not just for fuel range, but for offense/defense effectivness.

BTW Son, when you mentioned the 'fuel replacing range' did you mean refueling at friendly alies facilities? Because ths could be a problem if you only find hostile races around you upon arriving in the Delta quad. (I figure the Kazon would be close to Ocampa) It sure would suck for your ship to be stranded because it ran out of fuel.

Yeah I meant if you encounter the Talaxians and help them fight off an attack or something they might let you refuel at their homeworld or an outpost. You'd basically have to stop off and do this periodically all the way back, meaning diplomacy is important. Obviously the map is random most of the time, there's no reason why the first race you meet wouldn't be the Vulcans or the Ferengi.

Random maps are fine but someone WILL make the real galactic map, right! RIGHT?!

I'd do it but I suck at ANY level of programing.

I believe there'll be custom made toold for doing anything like that. The good thing about building from the ground up that it can be made to be accessable for all.

Iwulff and I are working on a canon map, which can also be loaded as a save game at the start of the Dominion War. It's a way off though.

good... Now I am at peace. Thanks.

Btw, have you checked out the news section. There are 10 mistresses of evil logged on!