In the recent days we witnessed a small revivification of the project, but let's be honest, Supremacy's faith is still clouded.

In this thread we should "regroup" - by that I mean all still willing to contribute should check in here and write the job they are willing and able to do

We should also layout a new plan of development, are we going to proceed to develop the current version or are we starting from scratch. If starting from scratch what parts of the old game we are going to use. The Menu, data, images, models...

Remember: "Supremacy is not doomed as long as we live," - a modified lyric from one song

Also, since our numbers have diminished in the past months we should plan a recruitment campaign. We can't carry out the project ourselves.

I remain hopeful that a coder will finish Supremacy but am not waiting for it to happen.

While learning Unity as work is on going I hope to use elements from Supremacy to make a 4X BOTFii game.

Never give up. Never Surrender.

well I keep around, and when there's option to help without too much work I do, however vanilla BotF is and will remain my main project
sadly I don't find time for it either currently

when you want to "regroup", really consider to merge with botf community
ofc some people need to be found that set up a new good site for both
but chance to find new contributors is higher with a merged community as in afc community people want nothing else but a new better botf too

beside this, starting all over again is no good choise.
You know how long it took to get that far you are, and Mike is an experienced programmer.
Only do so when you radically want to shrink features or use it to make some experiences in the programmer's world yourself.
For starting another worthy botf2 project you need more than one talented programmer (or one that has nothing else to do but code all the time), and for Supremacy you need Mike. Simply is.

I might take a look whether I get that code run when I find the time. But don't expect me or someone else not being into the code to take it on. It wouldn't be Supremacy without Mike either.
When I begin that a huge project, spending my free time that I don't have, then I follow my own vision and ideas and try something that might succeed on market.
Being some realistic this is not going to happen on my part within next 10 years.
And chance you find someone else with skill and interest to get Supremacy back on the track is rather low, though I wouldn't say it's zero. But too many already passed the way and none was willing. And only a few of a few that were interested in programming really had skill. And if they had, it doesn't mean they are capable of something like this.
For example your Python programmer. I recently learned Python myself. It's cool for small software and moddability, but really nothing I'd want to program a whole game with. Check what games or software is programmed entirely in Python. In half way professional games Python is rather used for modding extensions. I plan to integrate it with BotF too when I get that work.

I don't want to kill your enthusiasm. And I don't want to talk any bad on all your efforts I have lots of respect to and like alot. I followed the Supremacy project for long too, looking forward to it's success, and still hope Mike reconsiders again.
I talked klogd some weeks ago on his trekwar alpha and he said something like there can't be enough botf inspired games. I find that a great wisdom. Think of BotE, surely a nice game, lots love it, I don't but that doesn't matter when others are happy. It has it's own unique style just like TrekWar.
And Supremacy is it's own thing too.

Some friends in afc botf modding community including me like it more the original way, and I've never been a fan of C# coding though I learned it by now. I never liked all this microsoft dependency with .NET and such either and this hasn't changed, even though I learned some of it's favor and M$ Windows always has been my main OS.
I went my own way learning on BotF coding, improving my C++ and Assembler skills and such.
Maybe I get you back to it some day, if not Mike shows up all of a sudden and work goes on with Supremacy.
Can talk on that sunday if you like and I get Skype and my micro to work.
Man I wished there wouldn't be all these other things in life one has to spend one's time.

Whatever, don't break away, you are a cool team no matter what you work on.

This is not the labers of Sisyphus for me as I learn as I go.

I'm sure you do. And I wish you good success with it, but believe me, one needs more than one attempt to learn programming something big.
It's great when you have it in mind for motivation. But for a realisitic project that's some bigger, you first need to learn your tools and to program and that takes time.
I mean well, you surely can learn and do all of it, but it's a heavy loss without supremacy anyway and porting the code won't be so easy.
I can tell that as I know alot of programming and I'm sure Mike won't tell any different.

Do a smaller project first. Try limit to essential only and lateron extend your code or improve it.
Unity3D I still have to try myself, it's a cool engine and simplifies alot of work. But I'm sure you'll soon find out it's getting complicate with more code anyway.
When you've learned basic programming, with some help maybe you can revive Supremacy. But that'll take years still.

Best would be when you decide together to learn on programming and support each other. That holds motivation for longer and together you can program much more than one.

Like all of you, I am very disappointed to see this project languish. I'll never forget how excited I was to find this forum. Everyone has been amazing.

I can tell you that if I wasn't working, I'd be taking classes on C. I like what Mike has done well enough that I wish we could somehow create a fund, take donations and have his work finished. If you look, you can find programmers advertising online. They're probably not cheap, especially for something like this.

In order to proceed, we would have to settle down, define EXACTLY what the programmers should do, and keep it as straightforward as possible. Supremacy already has many of the fixes and enhancements most of us wished for when we used to play the game. Of course the main thing would be that it didn't periodically crash anymore. At this point, I would be thrilled with the existing program, finished to play nearly like the original, minus the memory leak that made BOTF1 crash.

I say this because we have to remember why we liked the original so much. I always wondered how much we could change it / "improve it" before we got to the point that it was NOT the game we liked. I don't know, that could be a little or it could be a lot. But at least the original game as a very tangible reference, would help define what the programmer should do. Keep in mind that when you played multi-player, which I did a lot, the turn time became an issue. Either we had to wait too long while someone finished setting up their turn and clicked that they were done, or if the timer was on, it was a panic to get everything completed before time was up. I also remember waiting while someone was in battle. Dull. I am implying that putting a lot more in, might increase wait time astronomically.

Of course, the list of things people would like to see changed or improved might be as long as the people involved. We're all different. Getting committees to agree is nearly impossible.

I am of course always here for artwork, and will be happy to finish the manual if it is needed. And someday if I had time for classes on C... However, because of the change in the world economy, I've got to admit I am much busier and under more pressure at work then I can ever recall.

Yeah, I understand. To me personally it would be best if we just finished the game as it is, no further enhancements (honestly the only thing I would like is to have minor races expand - with the feature to turn it off or on for those that are against it.) Current game with current features + AI (and minor expansion) + combat engine....and I'm happy.

There is also the unfinished feature of agents. I don't know what they contribute and what was planned with them.

This is post 2000 for Admiral Bashir. Hah!

By minor races expand, you're talking about the ability to play the game as one of the minor races or define which of the races were major races?

I'm talking about the ability of some races to colonize systems, this would be a feature implemented by the AI. They would colonize 1-2 systems, and only the most advanced minors (like the Vulcans) This would be an important feature for the Delta quadrant.

A good point!

I also had the idea of minors battling each other, at least the Delta quadrant ones. There's also the Borg, we wanted to make them more of a threat to the players, making it possible for them to assimilate planets and build ships from there. Perhaps even giving them homesystem (Unimatrix 01) which could be attacked if you have the hardware to destroy them there. There was talk of possible anti-borg alliance feature between races in which they would define joint attack on a cube or even a system (cool feature for multiplayer)

So current game + AI (and minor expansion AI) + Borg (possibly antiborg alliance, but IMO we can easily scrap it and leave it to the players to coordinate action against them without any special feature.) + 3D combat engine.

Guys, don't be so pessimistic about Supremacy's future! I recently discovered that, if I recall correctly, Bridge Commander 2, a fan-made game, is finally going to be released on the 21st this month, after being in development hell for about 10 years or so! Maybe those programmers who worked at it for free would be interested in working at this game too. People with the skills and the wills to help with this project are just like true love: they are out there, waiting to be found. The Star Trek fan base is enormous, so don't rule this project out just yet!

OMG, the Mayans were right. The world ends on the 21st as well. What a cruel twist of fate.

Actually, it has recently been uncovered that the Mayans predicted the end of merely a cycle, not the end of all existence. Those doomsday preachers had to come up with something, just in case the world would persist again. Anyway, you should be the least concerned man on this planet, should it be destroyed, 'cause you are Borg, and you will surely adapt.

Well that's great....we could finish this game in a year if we had a complete team. I'm worried that if we ever get a programmer, he will be unwilling or unable to finish Mike's code.

Catalin M:

How do we get in touch with these guys?

Well, I guess their site would be a good starting point. Although I'm not sure if this is their official site.
http://www.indiedb.com/games/bridge-commander-2

well...finding programmers is the biggest issue ... but telling from BotE: they'll find you. Maybe helpful will be to open the door wide for them and make it easy for them to have a first view for deciding themselves if they want to join in or never say a "here I am"

Maybe helpful this little link (might be not complete - please add) on my trash wiki http://bote2.square7.ch/regwiki/index.p ... #Downloads ...one place where all requirements for joining in into the code are listed...this and a new release might bring programmers to you

I think one important thing is too not to seem being dead..search Google "Star Trek Supremacy"
=> http://www.startreksupremacy.com
=> star-trek-games.com
=> http://www.botf2.com

my favour is a wiki like "startreksupremacy-wiki" which gives a generell reference work where many can add info. It can be also used for many issues http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... laxy_shape (expand the last headline)

don't loose hope...at BotE two programmers found us this year and others too so our team expanded ... and we took any well doing guy into our team even just for testing issues ...they are growing with time into other functions

That's a good idea actually. A few years ago I had tried a different approach but it didn't work. I had visited several programming forum/sites and advertised the game, some people expressed interest but in the end nobody came on board...