In a separate thread an interesting question came up. It didn't really belong in that thread so I've brought it here to put to you all, "How do you see the perfect Birth of the Federation game as being?" Now, please understand, this is not the place to make requests from the current BotF2 project. This is about possible (if unlikely) future projects... Perhaps three game generations in the future. (In fact, the original statement had to do with "BotF5", thus the title.)

A short list of my own BotF5 wants is as follows:

1) A fully 3d star map of the galaxy that included a maximum of at least as many stars as there are in the Milky Way (~400Giga-stars) properly spaced. The minimum might be as few as a hand-full of dozen.

2) Each star with a full stellar-system of randomly created or previously assigned objects: planets, moons, asteroids, Kuiper belt, Oort cloud, etc. Each object would properly orbit its sun or primary, changeling position in 3d space over time. (It would be nice if the stars changed position in the Galaxy too, but this might be too much even for three generations hence.)

3) Each object within a stellar-system would have its own randomly generated or previously assigned surface features and resources. (Possibly stored as a fractal?) And it would be possible to land on said surface.

4) Ships would actually travel the distances between the stars at proper warp speeds. (This might require the game to no longer be turn based. If so, slowing down time would be a really good feature.)

5) An AI engine that controlled Alien races using psych-indexes that are, again, either randomly generated or previously assigned to each individual race.

6) An AI engine smart enough that I can trust it to run my Empire the way *I* would run it. (I'd have to train it first, of course.) Yet have a switch that would allow me to micro-manage my entire galaxy-wide empire, if I choose.

7) An interface advanced enough to allow me to keep track of a galaxy of resources without being tedious. (This would be the biggest advance, I believe.)

8) Fully moddable! From individual objects, to psych-indexes, to random generation seeds, you name it.

As you can see, this wish list is **WAY** more than would be fair to ask *anyone* to do. That is why I keep harping on the concept of this thread *not* being for BotF2 requests.

This should be a rather fun thread to read!

THAT was beautiful!


(Tears of joy)

Right then ZDarby, I accept your invitation. Of course I would choose everything that you said, but I would add a complete Starship design system. You would be able to choose exactly how the ship would finally look, from the number of nacelles, to how it was painted.

You would literally be able to create a new class of ship from scratch, but the ship would have to follow the design perimeters' of your current technological level (Like having round/elliptical shaped saucer sections, because you can't refine the warp bubble enough to allow the more triangular types of Voyager and the Prometheus)

You would even be able to select which systems are placed on the ship, and you would be able to create prototypes to test out the new designs. You would be able to have shakedown runs for ships, and in the process, you could refine technologies (Or even discover new ones)

You would then be able to design new systems to go on your ship, based on your new technology.

The same things would be true of stations as well, and there would be no limit to the size of the stations, other than resources and technology. You could end up with a station the size of a planet, if you could support it!

And of course, all your ships would be completely 3D in tectical comabat - which would basically be the entire game, since there would be no separate tactical screen - the battles would occur in front of you in the galactic map, and the models would be perfect, as thought they had been made by a professional - the game would completely make the model from scratch for you, based on your design in the design program.

On top of this, since you are able to 'create' technologies, you could create weapons of your own choice, and you would be able to set their limits, based on the tech level of your empire - like increase the power of the weapon, by lowering the accuracy say.

The galaxy would be full of stellar bodies, from Stars and Planets, to Wormholes, Gas Giants and Supernovae. Planet would also be able to form over time, as well as be destroyed.

There would be random special bodies, like the Nexus passing through, and it's path really would alter if a star went nova.

The galaxy would be full of ancient artefacts that you would be able to discover (And use) and there would be a massive technology list, with technologies that some races could only obtain through trade (Like the So'na's technology to collect the radiation from the Ba'ku planet)

There would be the potential for problems with the Omega particle destroying subspace, as well as anomalies causing temporary problems with warp travel. (As in BOTF)

You would eventually be able to develop your race beyond the confines of Nemesis, since you would constantly be making new technologies, you would end up with Colony ships that are equipped with the 'old-fashioned' technology of Quantum Slipstream Drive, and you could end up with fleets of aging Sovereigns and Defiants.

Planets would be able to run out of resources if they are not managed properly, and new deposits of some new mineral or ore could be found in planets.

There would be mining facilities for anything and everything, and the economy would truly work (We tried to resolve it in a thread, but ended up arguing! Trust me, the trek economy does not work!)

I don't ask for much, do I?

Who else has any visions of BOTF5?

Nothing short of perfection M_o_E. I guess you'll play the Borg mod

But we have only gotten to BotF2, so it will have to wait.
Would be nice in 20 years.

Shaka, when the walls fell.

Cool thread!

I'd have to say transferrable crew XP. If an Excelsior builds up XP from battles, and a new Galaxy is launched, I'd like to be able to put the veteran crew on the Galaxy and start again with a green crew on the old Excelsior.

I'd never ever play a game which had a ship editor for individual vessels. Really hate that concept for some reason. I guess it just makes me think of the Galaxy 'dreadnaught' from All Good Things. An extra nacelle here, a gun here...

I'd like to be able to fight the battles maybe somewhat like Starfleet Command 3. Of course the system for BOTF 5 look and act much better than that game . For large battles you would still be able to direct your entire fleet, but you could have more direct control over one ship or a small group of ships, which you could do things like directing evasive manuvers, or attack patterns. Sort of putting you in Sisko's seat like in many of those later DS9 episodes, like Sacrifice of Angels.

Of course, if you didnt want to do this many times, or at all, theres the option for 'classic' BOTF battle maode.

I want to control orbital defences! At least 50 orbital batteries. With Earth in taking up the background. That's firepower!
And I want to cover things up as the Federation. eg:
"NO! A Federation starship would never bombard a Ferengi world. You must be, mistaken"

And I want to speak Tamarian to Tamarians! (:D)

Oh, and I want fleet coordination to the last captain. A voice interface, yes, a voice interface. Like Sisko when they had to go through the Dom-Card blocade. "Tell the Majestic to cover our flank!". "Galaxy wings 4-7 move after those destroyers"

EDIT: whoops Rigel already said that.

By the time BOTF5 is created, the new game (Mentioned in the 'speaking of BOTF5' thread) will be done and dusted! Right, so an addition to what has already been said then, would be for the new game to be incorporated into BOTF5.

With this incorporation, you would be able to go on the training missions with cadets, you could walk around any station you wanted to, you could go down to a planet and have a look around, you'd be able to physically Captain any ship you choose (In a Starfleet Command way, unless this new game does it even better - which I find it hard to imagine even the possibility of) 8O

All this would be on top of the galactic and micro-management parts of the game, so once you have built your empire, you could just leave it to run it's own course, while you go down to the planets' and have a look around!

Darmok his arms wide! on the ocean, darmok and jalad, tambar his eye's red!

Kadir beneath Mo Moteh. Sokath, his eyes uncovered! Kiazi's children, their faces wet.

Dif-tor heh smusma!

*v sign* the beast at tenagra! darmok at McDonalds! Pizza hut when the walls fell!

I sure hope there won't be adverts saying that McDonald's support BOTF5. I hate McPoison! (Why did they have to stop doing their strawberry sundaes? They were the only nice food they have ever done!)

This message was brought to you by the Imperial Romulan Senate. Have a pleasant day.

yeah the new McDonalds Tamaran Marketing strategy, Ronald his arms open, Hamburglar his eyes red, heh yummy it makes me wanna rush out and buy one

Fine you guys, it's settled.
You'll have McDonald/Posion in BotF5!

Wouldn't it be better to have McPoison as a morale structure? (Well, not from my point of view, but i'm thinking in the game sense here)

Oh, in case you guys didn't know, Dif-tor heh smusma means live long and prosper in Vulcan.

Shaka, when the walls fell

lol that.. that cracked me up lol.. and i was only giggling.. till i read this

*v sign* the beast at tenagra! darmok at McDonalds! Pizza hut when the walls fell!

couldnt stop laffing for a good 5 min.. thanks for the laff

well my idea is very much like Rigal... id like to be able to control 1 ship during battle..

id like to be able to send my dreadnoughts crashing into planets to either kill the pop or destroy the planet... id like to SEE planets getting conquered (troop transport attacks).. id like to be able to see planets (like sim city sorta) particularly rubicun for obvious reasons...

id like to either drive or see ships enter the giant starbases... i dunno who said it.. but i agree with having the option of being able to design your ships (lol 6 saucers with 20 na cells,lol..)
HERE I COME TO RUIN THE DAAAAAAYYY!!
(thats from might mouse for you ignora... i mean Matress_of_evil)
just kidding, dont be hatin..... also if possible.. id like to have trek movie type explosions of ships.. u know the kind...also.. in the "economics menu" id like to have the option to trade orien slave girls (or keep em and make my pop 100xmore loyal lol)

well now im just making jokes cuz all my ideas have been said and because its 3:40 am.. well goodnight

Ignorami? Moi? Whyfor would you say such a thing?

The ship design thingie was my idea. I never intended for it to be used to make a six-saucer ship, but I suppose it would be a new idea (Wait, no it isn't, they did it with Jupiter Station!)

The battle sequences should most definitely be as you describe CVN (Actually, they are apparently like that in Bridge Commander!) 8O

Ships moving in and out of Starbases is also already done in Armada 1 and 2! - Dilithium mining ships have to physically enter a mining station to be able to unload their cargo, and you physically see ships (And Stations) being built piece by piece! (I'll do some pics if you want)

In the case of ships, they are built in spacedock, and once they have been built, they undock and slowly move into space! shortly before they leave dock, they even change the textures slightly, to show that the lights/navigational deflector etc. are turned on, on your new ship!

And the Orion Slave Girls...they could help with crew morale as well, couldn't they..?

Bridge commander has all that, starbase docking for repairs and rearming, also uses spacedocks to repair ships and atmospheric buffeting if you get too close to the planets. id personaly take a 20 ship battle of bridge commander than a 200 ship battle of botf anydaydue to sheer quality, i reenacted both the promethious incident and the klingon attack of DS9... i have seen the top of the mountain! and it is good!

i coulda sworn i answered this already.. oh well.. i dont feel like writing it again.. jeez it was like 10 page reply with the most hilarious commentaries
and very insightful visions.. soul touching stuff ya know ?... oh well
tough

This was about BOTF5? Okeey, i want a 3D universe, touschreen and voice regocnitsion. Advanced tactics in battle and able to actually choose a ship in battle and fighting like in Roque Squadron, only then with StarTrek options, and ofcourse some changes.

I want to make it possible to devide an empire into provinces/states, so that multiple players can control an empire. This would be somethign like a clan, and would cover the entire galaxy. That's it.!

Oooooo! To be able to control (read here "micromanage") the take over of a planet!

First destroy planetary defenses here, here and here.

Land 10k troops to the north of this city, 10k north-east and 50k south. Have those to the south sweep through in thier assault tanks to drive out those who resist so as to be captured at the north end. Keep an eye out for the planet's prime minister and assorted staff.

Raze this other city to the ground from space. I'll truck no Rebels!

This city is simply too beautiful to destroy. Gas it.

Ground assault tactics would be excellent... And of course, that would include air assaults and space support. Oh, baby! It's a double creamer!

Of course, if I break them down, I should also be able to set them up in my own systems! Yeah....

Iwulff: Hell, yeah! Sounds great!

I want to able to fire members of goverment and Admirals if they mess up, I want elections where people vote if they want to keep me running things (option can be disabled in the setup screen, of course )

I want real briefings with chiefs of Departments (Economy, Defence...) and classified reports on intelligence activities, domestic and foreign.

I want scandals and diplomatic blunders happen before my eyes, I want to be there when First contact is made.

Call some people on the cutting edge of computer development, lock them in a room with a supercomputer and GIVE ME THIS!

I still think that BOTF V should be turn-based, as a person such as myself with the reflexes of a houseplant could never do a huge galaxy full of RTS, even with Voice Commands, and Auto-President! (Wait, I'm from a place where we already have one - it's overrated..... )

My vision is two separate games, really...It would require a seamless organic interface between TBS and RTS. My full vision would only work as a single player game, but it would of course be able to support multi-player, it would just get rid of some RTS and set a specific time to do Strategic-level stuff.

Here is a prose description of my Ultimate BOTF V turn.....

The turn starts with the Galactic Map screen. You can access the datafile of any colony from here, order them to build things, and make purchases. You would be alotted several minutes to make your decisions (more as the game progresses), and then the game blends seamlessly into RTS fun.

You click on one of your icons on the Map, taking you to an astonishing vista of a newly discovered star system being terraformed by one of your colony ships. You zoom in until you can see the starship in orbit of one of the planets. On your 'Terraform' order, it launches probes which begin the lengthy process of oxygenizing a Barren planet's atmosphere.

This gets rather boring, so you use the Voice Command system to locate and display another of your starships. You see the surveyor approaching yet another system. Immediately, the information on the new system appears, and you can send the ship to an M-class planet that yields an anomalous reading. Your science team beams down, and returns with a strange artifact. They tell you that it is of unknown origin, and will probably be able to add a new invention to your tech tree, after the artifact is returned to one of your starbases. You order the surveyor to finish exploring the system, and then return to the starbase at her standard cruising speed of Warp 8 (new scale). As soon as you give the order, an indicator near the ship appears, telling you the ship's statistics, and most importantly fuel stocks. The ship has a duration of three years (maximum warp and combat depletes this slightly), and this ship has nearly run out of fuel. It is fortunate that the starbase will be able to replenish her stocks, and transfer some of her experienced crew to more pressing matters.

You are warned that combat is occuring near your border. Instantly, a translucent readout appears over the vista, showing that one of your patrols is being ambushed by a cloaked invasion force! Klingons! For the past dozen turns, they have been at war with you, and you are preparing for one great counteroffensive. It seems they have beaten you to it. You click OK, and all hell breaks loose.

You see your patrol, in one of your custom formations. Three ageing Mirandas form a screen for the core of your force, an Akira and a Steamrunner. But the enemy is not yet visible, as they are still cloaked (the computer has thoughtfully put you in command of the ships BEFORE anything happens, so you can control the opening of an unexpected battle. You check their standing orders. The Mirandas are to 'shoot from the hip' while evading decloaking attackers, while the Steamrunner is to evade and attempt to get a sensor fix on their location. The Akira will use her torpedoes as soon as she can establish a weapons lock. Almost the moment you review their orders, the attack begins.

Ion torpedoes fly ahead of your formation, forcing a drop to impulse. You immediately order all ships to begin looking for the attacker, but the AI has already recloaked. Suddenly, three B'rel class birds-of-prey decloak behind your force and open fire on your rearguard. The Akira is hit by two ion torpedoes before she can react, and suffers severe shield damage. According to plan, the Mirandas scatter, firing phasers, but their shots are wild, the Klingons are too fast. Both birds-of-prey strafe the Akira with disruptor fire, while you order her to evade. The Steamrunner covers her with phasers, striking one of the BoP's, taking out its shields. The Mirandas complete their opening maneuver and on your order fire photon torpedoes. Two strike the damaged BoP, destroying it. The other is able to evade them, and strafes one of the Mirandas with disruptors. The captain reports on audio that forward shields have failed, and that phaser arrays are offline for the moment (the computer will select a repair time between one minute and the remainder of the battle, the captian will rejoin the battle when the repairs are complete). According to your earlier plan, ships unable to contribute tactically are to constantly evade until repaired. The computer automatically removes this ship from the Miranda group.

With new covering fire from the Akira, the remaining Mirandas start to corner the BoP, while you order the Steamrunner to engage and destroy, adding that the ship must not be allowed to escape. (the computer will select the tactic most likely to prevent retreat, and the enemy AI DOESN'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE ORDERING, even with scouts). Suddenly, a panicked captain reports that more enemy ships are decloaking! Four K'Tingas appear, perfectly placed to attack the Akira. You immediately order her to evade again, but it is too late. Seconds later, the klingons overwhelm her shilds and the ship detonates with incredibly realistic sound effects, and NO SCREAMS (there wasn't time). Suddenly, your task force is hopelessly outclassed, and you order an immediate retreat. Your surviving ships immediately begin to evade until they escape to safety.

The battle was lost, but you know that there are bigger problems out there. In reality, it was but a minor skirmish. You call up the Map, focus on the area of your offensive. You see your fleet icon there, you have four Sovereigns leading a force of some sixty starships, ranging from old Excelsiors to the brand new Prometheus, which has one of the three cloaking devices your operatives have managed to steal. The real-time observation of the enemy's movements (that they ordered in their Turn) was incomplete. Now, however, you know that at least a few of the enemy ships have left the task force defending their main border outpost. It seems they hoped to put you off guard with a diversionary attack and prevent your counteroffensive. You know that there are no other ships and starbases that will be threatened by the klingons in your territory, but as insurance you order what's left of your taskforce to defend an important colony. The main fleet, on the other hand, will reach the enemy front next turn. They will pay for their attack.

8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O
That is of course only a small glimpse of my dream BoTF. It would include both TBS and RTS, seamlessly, and have incredible 3D environments. For anyone familiar with other sci-fi (and trek) games, it is BoTF + Haegemonia + ST: The Dominion War + 20 yrs.-in-the-future voice commands, + a great Starship Creator feature, allowing you to customize or modify, if you so chose, but also having a 3D model repository of every ship ever seen in Trek, (or in the quasi-canon, for that matter). So your starfleet could include every design ever seen, every class mentioned. And if you get bored, you could modify them easily for the next game (but the modification wouldn't be permanant, unless you specify - even then, you can always revert to default for online play)

(tears of joy) That is what I want, someday....

It ended? Why? That was beautiful! I want to know more! How did the battle go? Who won? Did the colony survive? Did the Miranda's get back to base?

<Shudders> I want this game now!

Dont we all.

Matress, things like that are best left to the imagination... Rest assured, the battle was glorious!

I dream of a large battle with task forces integrated with both race-specific and custom-programmed tactics, tied into the voice command setting.

"Destroyer Group 23 - attack pattern Riker 1!" And they'd do it

As I said earlier, graphics are incredibly realistic, with specific damage seen based on where the target was hit, (and that ship's performance suffers accordingly), realistic (not green) explosions, great sound effects, and a full symphonic score (some of Haegemonia's battle music would be a place to start, then adding a lot of Trek-ness...) - I expect no less than Hans Zimmer, Harry Gregson-Williams or John Williams quality music...

We already have TerakRall's music for BOTF2, so we could use that instead.

Of course, by then, technology would have moved on, so the game would physically create the music whilst you are playing, depending on the situation. It would obviously then slowly adjust the music accordingly.

For example, you're exploring a new system, so the music is happy, and slow. Suddenly, your ships think they have detected a cloaked ship in the area, and the music would change to give a more edgy feel. As soon as it goes into battle, the music would merge into drums and things. Then, once the battle has ended, it would play victorious music (Or defeat) which would then slowly merge into exploration music again.

Translation: Guys, Orion Slave girls at 12 o'clock! Look stupid!