Not all of it is canon with this one.
http://www.shipschematics.net/startrek/federation.html
This is all canon. Just click the links at the very top.
http://www.neutralzone.de/database/indexfra.htm
Canon but on the schematics that have labeled features don't pay attention to the labels.
http://www.strekschematics.utvinternet.com/
Good resource for ship images in general.
http://www.shiporama.org/
This has some schematics and pictures. It's Voyagercentric and quite detailed.
http://www.star-trek-voyager.fsnet.co.uk/articles.htm
- http://www.star-trek-voyager.fsnet.co.uk/index.htm

I thought there was more but that's about it.

In case you didnt' find my other one....sorry.
I thought that I might be able to suggest a nice lineage for the fleets.

I'll put the rough tech requirements in parens behind each class
(I for pre TOS through TMP, II for TMP through TNG, and III for DS9+)
+ means that it occurs late in that era, - means early.

(the tech eras correspond to ships you would see together in a fleet at a specific tech level, since I don't know how you are doing research, basically beginning = I, mid-game = II, and late-game = III.)

Federation:

Scouts: Daedalus or NX (I)
Oberth (II)
Nova (III)

Destroyers: Miranda (I+)
Soyuz (II)

Heavy Destroyers:
Constellation (II)
Defiant Escort (III)

Light Cruisers:
Connie Refit (I+)
Excelsior (II)

Cruisers (dispensing with the Strike Cruiser designation)
Nebula (II+)
Intrepid (III)

Command Cruisers
Ambassador (II)
Galaxy (II+)

Heavy Cruisers:
Akira (III-)
Prometheus (max tech)

Uber-super-cool-awesome-ship
Sovereign (Dreadnought - max tech)

I think this is a bit simpler than was discussed earlier. I hope this helps

How about like this?

Federation:

Scouts:
NX (0)
Daedalus (I)
Oberth (II)
Sabre (III)
Nova (max tech)

Destroyers:
Miranda (I+)
Norway (II)

Heavy Destroyers:
Soyuz(I)
Constellation (II)
Steamrunner (II+)
Defiant (III)

Light Cruisers:
Constitution + Refit (I+)
Intrepid (II)

Cruisers (dispensing with the Strike Cruiser designation)
Excelsior + Refit (II+)
Akira (III)

Heavy Cruisers:
Nebula (II+)
Prometheus (max tech)

Command Cruisers
Ambassador (II)
Galaxy (II+)
Sovreign (Max Tech)

[quote="iwulff"]Yes you will have warp rigth from the start.[/quote]

We should divide the Warp Factors into classes to keep with TOS 60's canon and modern canon. Referring to Mach Numbers and Warp

Sound / Light Factor

subsonic - Prewarp under 1.0
transonic, - Warp 0.8-1.2
supersonic - Hyperdrive 1.0- 3.0
High supersonic - Warp 3.0-5.0 (3 to 9.99 is TNG canon)
hypersonic - Transwarp 5.0+ (would be 10+ TNG canon)

You see, when Kirk said Romulans didn't have Warp drive he was refering to the more advanced drives the Federation were using at the time (Kirks ship started with hyperdrive). Just like modern fighters ships can look and act differently with prepulsion. The f-22 has a a slower top speed than the f-15 but the f-22 has supercruise versus afterburners that the f-15 needs, performance versus topend. NASA tests alot of proven designs with modern engines all the time. This is one reason why a star ship creator will become important addition to the game. Just because it looks old doesn't mean it wont be fast. Also, as a neat random event, lets not forget the speed cap in TNG about tearing subspace above warp 6. once all empires are above warp 6 subspace has a % to shut down . Looking back at BoTF you can actually see that the Devs used this numbering system to see how far a ship moves in a turn ...interesting.

Don't mention Transwarp...there are a couple of people on the site that are pure technophiles, and will explain that transwarp should be impossible! Beyond Warp 9, you get warp 9.9, 9.99, 9.99999999999999999999 etc.

I know, there was Tom Paris (But Trek always has exceptions to rules!) He ended up in all parts of the universe at once - not travelling in a straight line (Sort of a down side to going that fast, I suppose)

...

Not all ships will be able to have top-of-the-range engines. You can't put a class 9 Matter/Anti-matter Warp Core, and a K-Type Warp Drive (Both systems were on Voyager) on an NX class, and expect it to reach warp 9.whatever-it-was! The spaceframe would have crumbled to bits, killing all on board. Eventually, spaceframes have to be redesigned, to be able to accommodate new engines, and to survive the new speeds.

This is one of the many reasons that the Enterprise-0 had such a massive refit. New engines/new Nacelles, New Deflectors, the works!

If we had a changing warp system, it would confuse the hell out of some people as well. The only way that speeds will be shown, is in sectors moved per turn. Perhaps both could be shown, but if they were, then the warp speed would be purely...cosmetic. You have to remember that the game will be made by fans, for the fans, but we don't want to make it soo trekky that there won't be new people having a go at the game. Trek games can always do with new blood.

The starship design part of the game will not be in either. Something like this would be way too complex for the developer to do - I know, coz i'm the one that suggested this in any detail!

Gavin is doing all the work to get the game working. We just suggest tweaks, or even make stuff like interfaces, but he will be doing all the hard work in his spare time. If you want a starship design part of the game, go ahead and make one. And if you do, please put it up as a download. Everyone is welcome to make mods, once the game is released - that's basically the point of this remake of the game!

Sorry if my post sounds like i'm trying to bite your head off, i'm just pointing out the facts, that's all.

Congratulations on your first post by the way! May you have many happy posts on the site!

[quote="Matress_of_evil"]Don't mention Transwarp...there are a couple of people on the site that are pure technophiles, and will explain that transwarp should be impossible! Beyond Warp 9, you get warp 9.9, 9.99, 9.99999999999999999999 etc.

I know, there was Tom Paris (But Trek always has exceptions to rules!) He ended up in all parts of the universe at once - not travelling in a straight line (Sort of a down side to going that fast, I suppose)

...

Not all ships will be able to have top-of-the-range engines. You can't put a class 9 Matter/Anti-matter Warp Core, and a K-Type Warp Drive (Both systems were on Voyager) on an NX class, and expect it to reach warp 9.whatever-it-was! The spaceframe would have crumbled to bits, killing all on board. Eventually, spaceframes have to be redesigned, to be able to accommodate new engines, and to survive the new speeds.

This is one of the many reasons that the Enterprise-0 had such a massive refit. New engines/new Nacelles, New Deflectors, the works!

If we had a changing warp system, it would confuse the hell out of some people as well. The only way that speeds will be shown, is in sectors moved per turn. Perhaps both could be shown, but if they were, then the warp speed would be purely...cosmetic. You have to remember that the game will be made by fans, for the fans, but we don't want to make it soo trekky that there won't be new people having a go at the game. Trek games can always do with new blood.

The starship design part of the game will not be in either. Something like this would be way too complex for the developer to do - I know, coz i'm the one that suggested this in any detail!

Gavin is doing all the work to get the game working. We just suggest tweaks, or even make stuff like interfaces, but he will be doing all the hard work in his spare time. If you want a starship design part of the game, go ahead and make one. And if you do, please put it up as a download. Everyone is welcome to make mods, once the game is released - that's basically the point of this remake of the game!

Sorry if my post sounds like i'm trying to bite your head off, i'm just pointing out the facts, that's all.

Congratulations on your first post by the way! May you have many happy posts on the site! [/quote]

TOS was the first ship to past warp 10 (warp 24 I think) Spock did a direct mix of matter/anitmatter and the ship blasted back in time a few days. It was a cool episode.

So I guess we should do the classic 1,2,3,4,5 spaces per ships for movement which averages out warp (intercept %) and supply lines. One thing is Costs of ships, and maintanence costs. this should be a flat rate per class of ship. This would encourage players to upgrade to the newer designs. Worked very well in MOO2. I think certain ships should not be built refit untill you meet a certain race or a certain event, the Defiant was an anti borg ship. We will leave that to a ship designer after we get through a couple betas ....some people are confused on my idea of a ship designer ...please please play Alpha Centauri ..this is what I'm talking about. All the ships listed and chosen would be the default builds and with your current list of techs can strip them down or beef them up... Imagine a romulan warbird w/o weapons but has a troop pod installed ..sneaky sneaky!!

Like you said, there were two Warp scales. Warp 10 in TOS time was probably somewhere around warp 8 or so by TNG era. (I don't know the exact scales) I do know the contemporary scale though.

In TOS era, the maximum cruise speed was about warp 6 on the contemorary scale. In the TOS episode 'That Which Survives', the Enterprise managed to reach Warp 14! This massive speed is somewhat slower that it sounds based on the contemporary scale.

On the contemporary scale, speeds beyond warp 9 are just refinements in power. Basically, Warp 9 is the equivalent of going 1.62 trillion miles an hour, while warp 9.9 is 3.27 trillion miles an hour. Basically, each factor above 9 roughly doubles your speed. (These are only estimated speeds. Obviously the actual speeds cannot be measured!)

This shows that Warp has an infinitely finite speed (If this makes sense) 8O

Basically though, the actual speeds will continue to increase forever, but infinite speed itself is theoretically impossible. (Of course this was disproved by Tom, but in doing so, he also proved the theory that infinite speed causes you to occupy all parts of space at once)

These reasons are another reason why speeds of 1,2,3,4,5 will be used - you'll end up with ships with a speed of 20 or something otherwise! 8O

...

I do understand what you mean by a starship creator program as in the Alpha Centauri sense (I've never played on it, but it has been explained to me)

You will not be able to refit ships in the way you suggest. The only way for such a thing to be in, is to physically create a new ship from scratch, as a mod. There will be no in-built program to make the changes you suggest, you'll just have to use the editor program that will be released once the game is out, to make an unarmed D'deridex with troops (Cool idea by the way, my operatives commend your efforts for the Star Empire) or any other ship you can imagine.

Just think what we'll have by this time next year though - there could be Negh'Var class science vessels, and Oberth class Dreadnoughts! 8O (Unleash the Oberths of war!)

This is the whole point of the modding idea for the game - you will make the game what you want - if you want these ships, then make them!

...

Glad you listened to my advice by the way - keep posting!

So, someone WILL make an editor? Or did I missunderstand? you Matress?

Since it was proposed that ships have two speeds Normal Cruise and high warp.

Depending on those you could have a number saying the current warp (purely cosmetic). Maybe?

there will be editors yes. but for multiplayer purposes all major races will have an offical module. or whomever is playing would need to sort out a great many mods. one other thing, a great many people are posting shiplists, and i noticed they are always for the feds. not wanting to knock anyones work but i am hoping captain chao will calm down and send me the ones he has prepared. also it is no good creathing a fed only shiplist, it needs to be balanced out with the other major races.

The editors that Jig mentioned were the ones I meant CVN, sorry if I confused you.

I suppose that other people may make other editors in due time though, for whatever reasons.

Michae1ange1o, why don't you have a go at making the Romulan shiplist, you will probably be better at the ships than me. I'd just end up with Shrikes, D'deridexes, Valdores, and Scimitars! (Coz they are all my operatives need...)

Long live the Star Empire!

After reading jigalypuf's post I decided to make a list of Romulan ships, I didn't assign them by eras, because I'm not exactly a Romulan expert, and I realize I probably missplaced some classes, but if it helps anyone or it's usefull...

SCOUTS:

Scout

High-spped Explorer

DESTROYERS:
The Early version BoP

Classic romulan

D7 destroyer

INTERCEPTORS/ESCORTS:

Valdore class

It is a science ship, but...

LIGHT CRUISERS:

early Romulan BoP

T'Pek Frigate

CRUISERS:

Temak

Selok

Sev'Tok class cruiser


HEAVY CRUISERS:

Tomolak

Norexan

A-type Warbird

COMMAND CRUISERS:
D'Deridex class Warbird

Scimitar

that Norexan likes like a valdore class with a new texture to me, plus all the romulan early era ships are not yet finished. dafadz is makeing a load.

Something for you and Dafedz to bear in mind Jig, the Romulan 'Scout' seen in TNG is actually a bit larger than a Jem Hadar Attack ship. It would work quite well to have that design as the 'modern day' Romulan equivalent to the Hideki, Klingon BOP, Jem Hadar Bug, Fed (Sabre)??

The very similar science ship variant could be the weaker, more research based vessel.

There's a good size chart at EAS.

The Romulan designs are good, if you look closely, you can see the design lineage.

I LOVE the pic of the Norexan. It looks powerful.

I thought the Valdore class was meant to be a bit stronger than an Interceptor/Escort though. (Yeah, I know the Defiant is an Escort as well) but the Valdore seemed like it was intended as a faster, lighter version of a Warbird.

If these are going to be the ships in the game though, BOTF2 is definitely going to be an improvement over BOTF!

the B-Type warbird looks like a duck "shut up whesley *quack* i remember the romulans having D-7's in TOS, cant remember exactly but it was because the klingons had a rumble with the romulans and destroyed most of the romulan fleet then found out they made a booboo and were forced to give the romulans replacement ships, i think i remember they gave the romulans old decrepit D-7's and some even older ships, but i dont think they produced them?

During the fabled Klingon/Romulan alliance, the Klingons are supposed to have given the Romulans Warp capability, and a couple of older ships for them to test their new-gotten technology on.

This also included some plans for ships, so they could build some of their own, and test them out. In exchange, the Klingons got the cloaking device.

SonOfMogh, I know it isn't canon trek, but in Starfleet Command 2, the Romulans basically had 3 'generations' of ships - the oldest ships were purely Klingon, or Klingon in design, with Romulan 'enhancements'. The D7's were examples of these.

The second generation was where the Romulans gutted the ships gotten from the alliance, and refitted them for their intentions. Plasma torpedoes came into greater use with these ships, and this is also where the painted TOS ships are supposed to have come from. (Yet again though, it isn't a canon source)

The third generation were when the Romulans' had gotten on their feet. These ships are completely designed by Romulans, are filled with Romulan technology, and are of Romulan purpose. The Warbirds are the prime examples of these.

The booboo that you mentioned michae1ange1o, would fit into this, if the races became allies soon after this event. (Although why they would after such an attack, I don't know)

probably correct there bud, all i remember about that was TOS and i only watched TOS as a nipper see, anyhow you may find this usefull, its the best romulan history i found so far http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/ ... mulan.html

here's a possible klingon progression (it's a timeline-setup progression) I put it in JPG so it's easy to view.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v218/ ... ssions.jpg

[quote="CVN-65"]After reading jigalypuf's post I decided to make a list of Romulan ships, I didn't assign them by eras, because I'm not exactly a Romulan expert, and I realize I probably missplaced some classes, but if it helps anyone or it's usefull...


I do like some aspects of this design lineage! Where did you find/create them? I have a few gripes with it, however (nothing serious )

1. Question: Is the Valdore Class Escort an earlier design? Is it the 'ancestor' of the Norexan?, or would it be at the same time? I ask because what we know of the Valdore (whichever of your two classes it is), is that it is roughly the size of a Sovereign-class Starship, or slightly smaller, This would appear to be more of a battlecruiser (like you have placed the Norexan) I think it would be cool to see the Norexan's (Valdore'e?) predecessor classes, but should those be designed before the heavy cruiser version comes out? (so we could have a Norexan named after an older Valdore, as your lineage implies) Anyway, I was just confused....

2. The D'Deridex and the B-Type Warbird are, unless I am very much mistaken, actually the same class (when the Federation re-established contact with the Romulans, the B-Type was their designation for the D'Deridex, sort of like all the funny names NATO gave Soviet planes in the Cold War.). So maybe the 'half warbird' could be the 'A-Type Warbird'? I don't know what designation you would use, but B-Type probably would be redundant, at least according to the ST Encyclopedia and other sources....

3. It would be awesome if the Scimitar were the Romulan uber-ship, but we may be barking up the wrong tree for the class: The Scimitar was either a one-off Reman ship, or the first in a class of new Reman warships (sans Thaleron weapons) if Shinzon's uprising had been sucessful. Sadly, it wasn't. Either way, there is no evidence that the mainstream Romulan Navy was involved at all - it was built in secret, known only to Shinzon's co-conspirators. it may thus have been Shinzon's pet project, one ship capable of taking on a good portion of the Romulan Navy, if it came to that.

I don't want to be mean, but I just don't see this as something that the Romulans would have built without Shinzon's interference. Besides, it would be slightly too awesome if there were several. I don't see much being able to deal with them !

I love the Scimitar, but maybe it could be a Romulan random event? Suppose there is a random event of a 'Reman Uprising', and the Scimitar appears as their warship?

I don't like to leave the canon, but what if the Romulan capital ship were the D'Kazanak Warbird (from one of the TNG novels). It could be a really cool improvement on the D'Deridex (bigger, even more awesome...). I don't know about that, but the Romulans clearly need a dreadnought-level class of ships, but I just don't think the Scimitar is the way to go.

Sorry, but that is my two cents, Enterprise.

Actually Jarok, I totally agree with you. While the Warbird certainly is an impressive ship, we have no known Romulan ship that was designed to counter the 'threat' of a Sovereign (Which the Romulans would definitely want to counteract)

The Warbird is roughly twice the length of the Galaxy, and was roughly the same in terms of power, so why isn't there a Romulan design for a modern Dreadnought (I know, that's part of the Federation class system, but I don't know what the Romulan term for Dreadnought is!) I wish my Romulan Fonts worked in these posts!

The D'deridex is most definitely the B-Type Warbird, and i'm 100% sure that the Scimitar was a one-off ship. Saying that though, who would say no to one in their fleet?

Jarok, if you want, join in on the randoms discussion on the weekend, and mention your Reman uprising idea then. If you can't make it, let me know, and i'll mention it for you.

Jarok, thanks for pointing those things out!
You're right, I misswrote ; It should be A-type Warbird, or something along those lines, I'll edit that!

To clear up the Norexan-Valdore. The Valdore was the name of one Norexan class Warbird. But the name Valdore was a nice name, so one class was named after it.

I don't mind, any way you shuffle the time of the designs, whatever people think is logical!
______________________________________________
First, I like the Reman uprising! It would be nice if we could find something similar for the other majors, though! We don't want to cripple the poor Roms! Again...

About the Scimitar... She took on two Norexans and the Federation flagship. Norexans gone in a couple of minutes, Enterprise lost the most ensigns since Kirk, got a view-screen without using the camera, got boarded...
All that saved them was the fact, Troi is a hazard to Enterprise's helm systems. + think what would have happened if they actualy made it to Earth, thalaron attack, End of the Federation... I REALY wouldn't like it if she was a serial ship.

If it would be in, I'd go with your Randoms idea, Jarok!

I don't know this «D'Kazanak» Warbird. I'd appreciate a link or a pic, just to see what you mean.

Oh, I didn't make any of these new ship pics I posted. I stole... Borrowed them from a few sites I found and pics I found throught Googles Pic search!

I have heard of the D'Kazanak class before. From what I have heard of it, it is quite a secret in the Romulan fleet...how you heard of it Jarok, I don't know, but my operatives heads' will roll!

Generally, the D'kazanak is portrayed as our A-type Warbird, but I managed to find one that was different. The picture is an example of the ship, because it is meant as a download for Starfleet Command 2. This is the example picture of it. If you want a better pic, i'll download it myself and make a pic in Starfleet Command for you.

Thanks, Matress;

The ship in the pic, well, its impressive, and even a little terrifying...
I hope that if someone seconds the idea of a non-scimitar Romulan
dreadnought, it is something awesome.

My suggestion for the D'Kazanak class is from one of the earlier TNG
novels, but I still can't remember which one.

I like the picture, up to a point. It sadly lacks the predatory grace that
all of the other Romulan ships had, but it would be a great starting
point!

Who is doing the ship renderings for the game? Does anyone know?

I was thinking, regarding the Romulan battle fleet...

1. Is there a chance that the R'Derex Cruiser from BoTF I will still be there?
it is one of the better 'fill-in' designs the programmers came up with, and
I'd be sorry to see her go.

2. I am not too much an expert on early Romulan tech, but the "Balance of Terror (TOS)" Bird-of-Prey seems roughly equivalent to a destroyer or light cruiser. The D-7 battlecruisers were each roughly equivalent to a pre-refit Constitution, am I close here?

3. Maybe the R'Derex could be the command ships in the TOS movies era, up to the Ambassador class. Basically, it would be the equivalent of the Excelsior, with similar upgrades, until it is replaced by some early Warbird.

4. I loved the 'proto Warbird' in Enterprise's post, (the cruiser). Maybe it could be an Ambassador equivalent? After that, we have the D'Deridex as one of the first TNG era designs, (probably built before the Galaxy, but with equivalent tactical abilities - we see one D'Deridex as being assumed to be able to defeat a Galaxy, with two to allow no escape...) Since we don't see any new capital ships until Nemesis, the D'Deridex could be upgraded for quite a while.

5. The Norexan class Warbird seems to be less powerful than a Sovereign (depending on how you assume the Scimitar was dealing with the ships - it is very possible that Shinzon was only trying to disable the Enterprise, but when faced with betrayal, 'shot to kill' the Romulans). Anyway, I could see it being an Akira equivalent. If there is an uber-Romulan-dreadnought, it should be Sovereign equivalent.

Again, great pics, Enterprise!

My problem with the Scimitar, is it's amazing power. I rather would have seen a two/three ships then just all packed into one. The movie was a dissapointment, and so was the scimitar in my eyes. It was just to much. how could the romulans ever made a ship that is 10 times as powerful then their newest warbirds? It's just full of noncense, and people didn't thought out the movie. The D'Kazanak, is a great looking ship, similiar to the excelsior era? Or something like that, perhaps a bit before that. But still a great looking ship, but definitly doesn't fit in the more modern era, with the Galaxy or even Sovereign.

The whole thing is a tad bit unconvincing
To say the least.

A slave race secretly designs, funds and constructs not only the biggest, meanest most advanced ship we've ever seen, but also equips it with secret, banned bio-genic weapons... ?:?

Jarok wrote an excelent idea a few posts down,
to make the Scimitar appear as a random; as a result of a random uprising in the Romulan Empire. It'd be a capital ship, as in the movie, but a one-timer.
I like it, anyone else?

You're right CVN, while it wuld be nice to have the Scimitar in as a ship, the only way to have it, would be as a random. And then the only way to explain away it's sudden appearance is a Reman uprising.

I downloaded the D'Kazanak after, and i've made some pics of it. CVN has already seen all of the pics (But only after much cursing of the size of his emails' inbox)

Sorry about the difference in the sizes of the pics - photobucket automatically adjusts the size if they take up to much memory. Also, don't worry about the odd glitchy square that is on the last couple of pictures - that was just my mouse cursor glitching! 8O

So... An Excelsior era Command cruiser?
The D'Kazanak, I mean.

Sounds right. It fills in the space, and it shows a design lineage (D'Kazanak up to Warbirds, I mean)

Wait a minute, have you noticed how this means that the Federation has a design lineage that roughly starts at the same time that the Romulan starship design lineage started? 8O

Cool.

Crapy Constitution -> modern saucers
Crapy BoP -> predator Warbirds

(Not that I dislike the Constitution or BoP)

Actually, I was thinking Excelsior -> Galaxy (Ambassador is the go between of course)

D'Kazanak -> D'Deridex Warbirds

Actually, thinking about it, if we are going to show this design lineage, we will need an Ambassador-era Romulan ship that fits in! (Or do we already have one?)