We must always remember the 4th postulate of Trek:
"Nothing is beyond power of the main deflector and it's adjecent components"

It really is the 24th century equivalent of a swiss army knife... "We'll use the main deflector to implant a Federation warp signature on that power source!"... Errr, what?

Oddly enough, we rarely see it doing something that it should do best;
actualy DEFLECT something...

My theory is that the ships are so advanced by the 24th century, the deflecting aspect of the dish is so simple the equipment takes up virtually no space, this would explain why the Miranda, Constellation, Oberth etc have no deflector. I'd say that "Deflector Dish" is a term carried over from the early days of the NX, in reality the structure does all kinds of scientific stuff, and basically has all the equipment in one place. Certain less versatile ship could have a deflector system that's hardly noticable, becaure they don't really require the dish itself.

Interesting...
Never thought of it like that... But now that you've brought it up, it DOES make sence. Most of the sensory equipment is in the deflector anyway...
But did they make it so dominating in the GALAXY class design. The ship is ceurtainly an advanced one.
For aditional sensor cappabilites, perhaps?

I agree with SOM's theory. It makes sense when it comes to why some ships that werent made for science do not have a big deflector dish, but newer ships like the Galaxy and Soverign have a large deflector dish/array.

No matter how advanced your ship is, you are going to need a bigger deflector dish if you have a bigger ship!

Sovereigns and Galaxies are massive ships, especially in comparison to say a Miranda - they will need a more powerful deflector, even if they are small in size.

On top of that, Galaxies and Sovereigns are ships of exploration - remember a Sovereign is a 'Battle-enhanced exploration cruiser' - basically a scout with more weapons than normal. By design, they will have far more sensors than a pure battleship.

It's likely that the Sovereign was designed to have as many anti-cloak scanners as well, further adding to the large amount of sensors it has.

Of course we know it's more than that, but that is it's designation.

Your theory definitely makes sense SonOfMogh, and it fits in with what I have just said.

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Come to think of it, that's a mistake in my Starship creator warp 2 program - Sovereigns are only able to be equipped with two sensor packages - Intrepids are able to have six! Surely that is a mistake?

The Sovereign class ship has only appeared in 3 feature films and has never been given a designation, ever.

Very few ships have actually been given a descriptive designation. The Galaxy was constantly referred to as a ship of peaceful exploration, I tend to go with the non-canon term 'Explorer' for her. The Defiant was named as a 'Warship', but was officially classed as an 'Escort'. The Nova was designated a 'Planetary Surveyor', and the Oberth class Grissom was called a 'Science ship'.

Any term you hear to describe a Sovereign has been extrapolated by one fan or another, I personally think terms like 'Enhanced Battle Exploration Defender' etc just sound so immature and silly. I'd go with Explorer, or Battleship.


Regarding your game, that does sound a little silly. The Intrepid is a small all-rounder with a scientific bias, the Sovereign is a massive all-rounder with a combat bias. The best an Intrepid could hope for is roughly comparable sensors.

I agree, Warp 2 seems to be giving the intrepid more credit than its worth.

Some of those four or five word descriptions do sound a little funny, dont they SOM? But you still have to admit the the Soverign fits into more roles han just Explorer or Battleship. Maybe a Tactical Explorer/Scout?

Enhanced Deterrence Explorer
That's what DITL made up.

Combat enhanced explorer sounds ok to me

By sensor packages, I mean actual sensor types, not numbers (Like graviton particle sensors, EM-detectors, and the like)

In the game, the Sovereign was portrayed as purely an advanced Battleship, while the Intrepid was equipped with the K-class warp drive (By definition, this means it's got Transwarp!)

I think the programmers just didn't do their research, before they started.

...

I'm not questioning what you say SOM, but I could have sworn that I remember the Sovereign class being designated...my brain must be making up memories again, I suppose...

In First Contact they said it was "The most advanced ship in the fleet" but that's about it I'm sorry to say. I think the term Explorer allows for a fair amount of variation. The reason the more specific designations sound silly is because.... where will it end?! Will the next major ship be a "Super Size Enhanced McStarship"? Course not, you need a sensible 'upper limit' designation, and reserve that for the largest and best vessels of the day. Many fan sites just want the Sovereign's designation to immediately reflect it's superiority over the Galaxy class, as if we don't know that or something.

Yes, like you said in some other thread around here(or was it me, or Matress, or Rigel... , anyway...)
Just make them change generation by genetarion. The Constitution was a destroyer, then later it was the Miranda, later it was the Nebula and so on...
No need indeed for increadably long names, but then again the Sovereign is something special

Constitution was a Heavy Cruiser, that is actually canon. The Miranda would probably fall into the Destroyer of Cruiser category.

But exactly like you said, the Constitution was a Heavy Cruiser, I'd bet the Excelsior also had that designation, despite being better in every way.

Just my opinion, but I see the Miranda puely as a destroyer. The Cruiser designation seems to be giving it a little too much.

I know how you hate non-canon sources, but 90% of the sources i've checked so far list the Excelsior as a Battlecruiser, although they also list the Lakota as a Command cruiser.

I know she was heavily refitted, but that does seems a bit strange, to totally change her class...perhaps you are right about sticking to canon afterall...

The Kirov and New Jersey classes are also listed as Battlecruisers on the various sites, so this designation hasn't been creted simply for the Excelsior though.

About the Lakota refit;
I've always found it a bit akward they give a refit a completly new designation. They gave her a paint job, updated her weapons to the modern standards and uprated the shields.
If the ships purpose was for example, cruiser, a few new guns can't realy change that designation to, say battlecruiser, because the designation was given way back in the construction and desing period.

Actually, battlecruiser is a genuine military designation. I can't be bothered to look this up so if there's a military whizz out there please feel free to correct me, but I believe this is the order;

Corvette
Escort
Gunboat
Destroyer
Frigate
Cruiser
Heavy Cruiser
Battle Cruiser
Battleship


Now, I think I'm missing one or two, please feel free to correct me I know for sure those are all traditional naval terms and they're in order of size.

Now, in Trek terms, Roddenberry was really keen on Federation Starships not having the word 'Battle' anywhere in their title. Reason being, Starfleet is not supposed to appear to be a military force.

You can see from those terms how certain ships are named. The Klingon Battlecruiser would obviously have been a mean mother in it's day, because of tradition it's still referred to as a Battlecruiser, the second highest designation. The Negh'Var is no doubt a Battleship. The large Jem Hadar ships we frequently saw are often called Battlecruiser, yet the big fu**er in 'Valiant' was a Battleship.

I have no problem with the Excelsior being a Battleship, although Roddenberry invented the term Explorer for the larger Federation ships, just because it sounds a bit friendlier. To be fair, the Excelsior really was the Sovereign of her day, rather than the Galaxy of her day, she's very streamlined and very mean, with less mod cons than certain other classes.

11 seconds

Agreed, although nobody at Trek ever implied the designation had changed, only certain fans with websites. This information has been invented whilst debating with other Trekkies, much like we're doing now...

4 seconds
I agree with your previous post. In the mad up Sovereign names, most people try to avoid battle and make it sound more politicaly correct, "Detter, cobat-enhanced,..."

What's going on!!

I agree, I think these people are somehow just too keen on separating the Sovereign from the Galaxy, despite them being in the same category.

I tell you what, the Sovereign is a "Extra Combat Enhanced Multiphasic Quantum Carrying A Bit Faster Than The Intrepid A Bit Stronger Than The Galaxy Advanced Holodeck Sporting Borg Powered Incoroporating Technology From The Pegasus And The Defiant Ultra Powered Batt... I Mean Explorer, (Enhanced Version)". That would roll off the tongue at Starfleet Command briefings.

I've done a quick look for other Naval classes, and as yet haven't found any (Doesn't mean there aren't any though)

Even though I totally agree with the order, there is one thing that bothers me...

Defiant = Escort...

So basically, the Defiant is the second weakest class of ship that the Federation can field! 8O

I fear for their (Non-existant) Battleships!

there is one other term, Fire Support (long-range vessel, usually fairly small), although ive never seen a star trek ship classified as such

There's also what's called a "Large Cruiser", somehow different from a heavy, and Cutters, which are another small ship (never seen these used in ST either)

Fire Support Cruisers are in the Starfleet Command games, but I didn't know they were actual Naval classes.

In the games, they tend to be ships with low firepower, but short recharge times (So their weaponry is more phaser/missile-based rather than heavy weaponry-based like photons and plasma which take a lot longer to load/arm)

Fire Support Cruisers tend to have weak defenses, and so fire from a distance, keeping out of the fray, but their long-distance weaponry is able to wear down enemy shields, so that stronger Battleships and Carriers can get in close and do real damage to the enemies hull.

...

The large crusiers I have heard of...but i'm not sure where, and I certainly didn't know they were another Naval class.

Well you really do learn something new every day!

Commander, nameless Romulan! I see 2 ships on sensors! They are Federation,... Escort size!
Load plasma torpedos and arm all disruptors! We're going Pelegrin hunting!

Ofcourse the ships are Defiants and the brand new Norexan is now space dust. That, why they're "escorts"

Nah, it's a small class, but size isn't related as strictly to power, a small, well armed ship could in many cases sink a much larger opponent. This is especially so in the Trek universe. For one thing, those larger ships aren't warships like the Defiant is so it's not a fair comparison, if you took all the non combat biased elements out of a Galaxy you'd end up with a ship that was 90% empty, to be fair the larger ships shouldn't strictly have these naval designations as they're not warships like the ones we have today.

Also, the Defiant was only 'officially' classed as an Escort as it was a politically correct term rather than a battle oriented one. Being as small as she is, it's a name that would appear well suited, until you're burning in space.

I know this question is completely off topic, but it is a small and necessary question.

Have the names for the different ships for the races been compiled yet? If so, ok, if not, i'd be glad to help, cause i have incredibly little to do and much time to do it in.

The 'Official' shiplist is being compiled by someone called Captain Chao I believe. He's apparently done a few shiplists on various BoTF mods, I'd imagine the community would have the chance to debate this list before it becomes the 'official' one though.

Either way, this game's gonna be so moddable I'd imagine everyone will have their own personal shiplist that's different to anyone elses. If you want to try to compile a provisional list I'll very happily contribute.

I can see it now...
The USS Tesla, the Pušća Bistra, the Pripizdina, the USS Ko-Te-Jebe... Ah... I am loving this game already...



How about a list just for fun? (fun being a very relative term when you're on school holidays...)

Organised by classes?
Should the transports still be marked by cities?

I'll get started...